• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Do animals have souls?

PoetPhilosopher

Veteran Member
Animals are certainly smart though. For what my opinion is worth, I had a friend who had a cat. Well eventually this cat could start to use his "meows" to sound like single, simple words to get what he wanted. The owner had an R at the end of his name. Well the cat when it was hungry, started saying "meeeeoooowwwwrrrrrr" to try to say the owner's name.
 

Eddi

Agnostic
Premium Member
Allow me to play devil's advocate here....

Where in the animal do you see a soul? If, by definition if the soul is incorporeal how does one physical see it? Is it because of the animation and behavior of the observed creature?
I believe that we have evolved to recognise sentience, and that this works intuitively - e.g. by looking into the eyes of another

I think we may observe the presence of a soul by observing the sentience it bestows on who has it

I believe this is a kind of empathy and that people understand sentience as being the product of something else due to the common distinction between the mental and the physical

I think that the idea of a soul is a concept to help us understand sentience - a meme even

(Although I believe that they literally exist)
 

Epic Beard Man

Bearded Philosopher
I think we may observe the presence of a soul by observing the sentience it bestows on who has it

Well now the rabbit hole goes deeper for you....

Because sentience may not always be indicative of the soul for example people that are brain dead.

So again...

If the soul is incorporeal how do we see an incorporeal "substance" through the material substance of the eyes?
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
Do animals have souls?

When I look into the eyes of an animal I can see a soul looking back at me

Just as I can when I look into a human being’s eyes

I see the same thing in both animals and humans

"see" is perhaps the wrong word. Perhaps a better word would be "feel"???

I think they have souls

Why shouldn’t they?

What do you mean by "soul"? What is it?
 

Eddi

Agnostic
Premium Member
Well now the rabbit hole goes deeper for you....

Because sentience may not always be indicative of the soul for example people that are brain dead.

So again...

If the soul is incorporeal how do we see an incorporeal "substance" through the material substance of the eyes?
I see (or at least I think I see) three possibilities:

1) The soul is not incorporeal - it is a part of the materiel world and gives rise to consciousness, as an emergent property of soul plus brain
2) It is incorporeal yet through some mystery it interacts with the physical
3) The distinction between mental and physical is a human construct that doesn't necessarily reflect reality

I think the first one is the best one
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
I believe that we have evolved to recognise sentience, and that this works intuitively - e.g. by looking into the eyes of another

I believe that when you look into the eyes of another and see a soul what's happening is that one soul (yours) recognises another fellow soul

Why are you interchanging "sentience" and "soul" as if they are synonyms?

I don't think sponges would, as (as I understand it) they have no central nervous system
So a central nervous system is a requirement for having a soul?
How have you established that?

Edit: not being cute and fluffy shouldn't mean no soul!

Then what DOES mean "no soul"? Or "soul", for that matter...
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
1) The soul is not incorporeal - it is a part of the materiel world and gives rise to consciousness, as an emergent property of soul plus brain

Then it would be detectable in some or form. But that doesn't seem to be the case at all.

2) It is incorporeal yet through some mystery it interacts with the physical

Appeal to mystery, really is no way to argue.

3) The distinction between mental and physical is a human construct that doesn't necessarily reflect reality

This one I agree with. We actually are our brains.

To us, it feels as if "I" is an entity that is "trapped" in our body, which is another entity.
In truth, or perhaps better said: according to the objective facts and evidence, this is simply not the case and that which we call our "spirit" or "soul" or the "I" that is trapped in the body, or our "mental self" if you prefer, actually is just the physical neural network in our brains.


We ARE our brain.

That's what literally all the evidence points to.
And in fact, the more we learn about how the brain works, the more that idea is reinforced.

I think the first one is the best one

Well, I like it best certainly because it is defined as something that should be detectable since it would have some kind of manifestation in detectable reality. So at least with that, you have something that in principle COULD have evidence to support it.

That's awesome, because it gives you a starting point to start the search.
So, call me when you detect the "soul" in measurable fashion.

Until then, I have no justifiable reason to accept that there is such a thing as a "soul" - which, btw, still hasn't properly been defined.... And that's kind of strange, in a thread asking the question if X has a soul. How can you even begin answering that question, if it isn't first crystal clear what a soul is?

Tell me, do cats have gooblydockydoodoo?
Or is it just dogs?

See? If you don't define your terms, your questions are kind of pointless.
 

Eddi

Agnostic
Premium Member
Why are you interchanging "sentience" and "soul" as if they are synonyms?
So a central nervous system is a requirement for having a soul?
How have you established that?
OK, in these two instances I clearly conflated the two. Thanks for pointing that out.

I'd say a central nervous system is a requirement for sentience. But I maintain that one (soul) somehow leads to the other (sentience)

Then what DOES mean "no soul"? Or "soul", for that matter...
I think the soul is a prerequisite to having sentience - it is a part of my explanation for sentience

To have no soul would be to have no sentience
 

Eddi

Agnostic
Premium Member
Then it would be detectable in some or form. But that doesn't seem to be the case at all.



Appeal to mystery, really is no way to argue.



This one I agree with. We actually are our brains.

To us, it feels as if "I" is an entity that is "trapped" in our body, which is another entity.
In truth, or perhaps better said: according to the objective facts and evidence, this is simply not the case and that which we call our "spirit" or "soul" or the "I" that is trapped in the body, or our "mental self" if you prefer, actually is just the physical neural network in our brains.


We ARE our brain.

That's what literally all the evidence points to.
And in fact, the more we learn about how the brain works, the more that idea is reinforced.



Well, I like it best certainly because it is defined as something that should be detectable since it would have some kind of manifestation in detectable reality. So at least with that, you have something that in principle COULD have evidence to support it.

That's awesome, because it gives you a starting point to start the search.
So, call me when you detect the "soul" in measurable fashion.

Until then, I have no justifiable reason to accept that there is such a thing as a "soul" - which, btw, still hasn't properly been defined.... And that's kind of strange, in a thread asking the question if X has a soul. How can you even begin answering that question, if it isn't first crystal clear what a soul is?

Tell me, do cats have gooblydockydoodoo?
Or is it just dogs?

See? If you don't define your terms, your questions are kind of pointless.
OK, everything you say is correct

When I started this thread I wanted to get a discussion between the fundamental differences between humans and animals going but ended up with more than I bargained for, clearly. But thank you.

However, I will continue operating the concept of "soul" as a kind of short-hand for what to me is the ineffable nature of sentience which on the basis of faith I consider supernatural
 

amorphous_constellation

Well-Known Member
I see (or at least I think I see) three possibilities:

1) The soul is not incorporeal - it is a part of the materiel world and gives rise to consciousness, as an emergent property of soul plus brain
2) It is incorporeal yet through some mystery it interacts with the physical
3) The distinction between mental and physical is a human construct that doesn't necessarily reflect reality

I think the first one is the best one

I definitely opt toward number 2, the structures of the soul and consciousness are the qualities that the flesh of the organism are able to encase from straight out of the ether. The body is the container or net for those higher things that exist around them, free of being filtered through a body.
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
Well, then, how about plants? fungi? bacteria? everything that is alive?

What about rocks? mountains? planets?

What does it even mean to 'have a soul'?

Supernatural explanations are only limited by one's imagination. Rocks, sure. Mountains, why not. Planets,... you've heard of Gaia haven't you?
Gaia - Wikipedia
 

Wandering Monk

Well-Known Member
Do animals have souls?

When I look into the eyes of an animal I can see a soul looking back at me

Just as I can when I look into a human being’s eyes

I see the same thing in both animals and humans

"see" is perhaps the wrong word. Perhaps a better word would be "feel"???

I think they have souls

Why shouldn’t they?

Doesn't this beg the question? Does ANYTHING have a soul? How would you prove it?
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Do animals have souls?

When I look into the eyes of an animal I can see a soul looking back at me

Just as I can when I look into a human being’s eyes

I see the same thing in both animals and humans

"see" is perhaps the wrong word. Perhaps a better word would be "feel"???

I think they have souls

Why shouldn’t they?

My current understanding it is the human Soul/Spirit that has the ability of rational thinking.

As there are 5 levels of spirit, human being the 3rd level, animal 2nd and vegetable 1st. Then we can consider that Soul/Spirt is part of the animal kingdom. If this is the case it is also part of the vegetable kingdom. The animal is not capable of the rational thought given to man.

Thus I see, we can see spirit in the animal and they say eyes are a mirror to our soul and I see that spirit permeates us all.

Regards Tony
 
Last edited:

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
OK, everything you say is correct

When I started this thread I wanted to get a discussion between the fundamental differences between humans and animals going but ended up with more than I bargained for, clearly. But thank you.

However, I will continue operating the concept of "soul" as a kind of short-hand for what to me is the ineffable nature of sentience which on the basis of faith I consider supernatural

How about, when I think of what is usually meant by a soul is the idea of self-awareness. Humans are obviously self-aware. Some animals seem to be self aware, some do not. Usually that means to possess a concept of self. An identity that is that is in addition or seperate from a pure physical existence. The soul is this non-physical self.?
 

The Hammer

[REDACTED]
Premium Member
Do animals have souls?

When I look into the eyes of an animal I can see a soul looking back at me

Just as I can when I look into a human being’s eyes

I see the same thing in both animals and humans

"see" is perhaps the wrong word. Perhaps a better word would be "feel"???

I think they have souls

Why shouldn’t they?

Of course animals have souls. Many things have souls, even plants. This whole planet has a powerful old soul.
 
Top