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Romans 8:3-7 , contradiction, or affirmation?[saved by faith

moorea944

Well-Known Member
Charity means the 'offering of Salvation', via faith. Note how if one is using an interpretation, based on the word used in the english bible, one can derive bizarre ideas, concerning the interaction between 'Jesus', and the adherents? In other words, you haven't made it clear, what idea you are arguing, so what do you want explained?

'Charity', is in the greek bible, notice how that matches an offer of salvation, based on belief
John 3:36,

and faith, the other verses I presented.

First of all, no one is arguing about anything.

Second, your still not answering my question. Your saying that grace is charity. Your saying that in your Greek bible, that is what it says. I looked it up in my Greek bible and charity is nowhere. IT's such an awkward word. Which Greek bible are you looking at?

Note how if one is using your interpretation, one can derive bizarre ideas,
lol Like what?. I'm replacing the bible's grace with your bible's charity, not really working is it...
If you look up the word grace, this is what you get. Goodness, favor, glorify, divine favor, etc. I even looked it up in Strong's. No charity. Really dont know where your getting that from. IT's not really "my interpretation". It is God's Grace or divine favor, goodness that we are saved..... thru faith. Charity isnt really working here esp with John 3 isnt it. It is by the goodness or divine favor of God that we are saved. That's wrong to you? That's the point I"m making.


Charity means the 'offering of Salvation.
Does it? And you got this from your Greek bible? Can you tell me which one your reading? Would like to see it. It just urks me using that word instead of what it really means.

But anyway, I think our salvations are different from each others anyhow...... No worries.
 

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
Romans 8:3-7
Affirmation of salvation through faith alone?

Ephesians 3:6
Ephesians 1:12
^

Confirmation of Faith ! [Salvation
^
My opening statements. You can eithrr refute them, or you can't

Hint

I believe it is not. Salvation is by grace through faith. Without faith the grace means nothing. Without grace faith is in what?
You agreed with this, no real explanation why

First of all, no one is arguing about anything.

You seem to be arguing about something.
 

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
First of all, no one is arguing about anything.

Second, your still not answering my question. Your saying that grace is charity. Your saying that in your Greek bible, that is what it says. I looked it up in my Greek bible and charity is nowhere. IT's such an awkward word. Which Greek bible are you looking at?

Note how if one is using your interpretation, one can derive bizarre ideas,
lol Like what?. I'm replacing the bible's grace with your bible's charity, not really working is it...
If you look up the word grace, this is what you get. Goodness, favor, glorify, divine favor, etc. I even looked it up in Strong's. No charity. Really dont know where your getting that from. IT's not really "my interpretation". It is God's Grace or divine favor, goodness that we are saved..... thru faith. Charity isnt really working here esp with John 3 isnt it. It is by the goodness or divine favor of God that we are saved. That's wrong to you? That's the point I"m making.


Charity means the 'offering of Salvation.
Does it? And you got this from your Greek bible? Can you tell me which one your reading? Would like to see it. It just urks me using that word instead of what it really means.

But anyway, I think our salvations are different from each others anyhow...... No worries.
The 'faith', is what the Jesus adherents are doing. Ie Salvation via belief, faith.

'Jesus' is the one offering the Salvation.

The opening statements, are about the Jesus adherents, what they would be doing, for Salvation.
 

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
I'm replacing the bible's grace with your bible's charity, not really working is it...
If you look up the word grace, this is what you get. Goodness, favor, glorify, divine favor, etc. I even looked it up in Strong's. No charity. Really dont know where your getting that from. IT's not really "my interpretation". It is God's Grace or divine favor, goodness that we are saved..... thru faith. Charity isnt really working here esp with John 3 isnt it. It is by the goodness or divine favor of God that we are saved. That's wrong to you? That's the point I"m making.

John 3:36

Is all about 'charity'. The charity, of the Spiritual Sacrifice.

The verse doesn't say, "given the variables of a conditional Sacrifice are met, it is still just a matter of "favor", bestowed upon the Jesus Followers'.

Does it?


In other words, in trying to complicate things, you've managed to make it a purely subjective guessing game.
 

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
This is why the conditional Sacrifice, requires Belief, and not 'whoever you whimsically and ignorantly esteem should receive salvation'.
 

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
Taken in context, there is a bit of hope for non-believers. As these things are 'contextual', somewhat.

Not worth the risk, though, really. So, better to ascertain a religious path, that one can handle, than none at all.

[Concerning this
 

moorea944

Well-Known Member
This is why the conditional Sacrifice, requires Belief, and not 'whoever you whimsically and ignorantly esteem should receive salvation'.

WOW!! Hardcore words my friend. You think that you really should have said those things? "Whoever you whimsically and ignorantly esteem should receive salvation?" And what did I whimsically say for you to say those words? Just curious............ because everything I mentioned was from scripture.

Plus, I do agree with you that conditional sacrifice requires belief. I never said it doesnt. I only stated that that is more than just belief!! Maybe you should try decaf.......
 

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
Plus, I do agree with you that conditional sacrifice requires belief. I never said it doesnt. I only stated that that is more than just belief!!

It isn't 'necessarily more than belief'.

That's what John 3:36 means,

'Not necessarily more than belief'.

You've taken concepts from 'other religions' and mixed them with this religions statutes.

You don't include contextual variables, in the basis of the spiritual sacrifice, ['charity', of the offering of salvation
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
Regardless of what one might believe about the issue of "salvation", I think it's quite clear that one needs to do what Jesus taught, and the basis of what he taught is quite clear in the Sermon On the Mount (Matthew ch. 5-7).

IMO, the real key is whether one believes in Jesus so as to do what he taught, or whether one just maybe believes a couple of things about Jesus. And this difference is made quite clear in Jesus' Parable of the Sheep & Goats, and that parable does indeed deal with the issue of "salvation".
 

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
Regardless of what one might believe about the issue of "salvation", I think it's quite clear that one needs to do what Jesus taught, and the basis of what he taught is quite clear in the Sermon On the Mount (Matthew ch. 5-7).

IMO, the real key is whether one believes in Jesus so as to do what he taught, or whether one just maybe believes a couple of things about Jesus. And this difference is made quite clear in Jesus' Parable of the Sheep & Goats, and that parable does indeed deal with the issue of "salvation".
I would agree with that distinction, 'in', as opposed to 'about'.
 

moorea944

Well-Known Member
It isn't 'necessarily more than belief'.

That's what John 3:36 means,

'Not necessarily more than belief'.

You've taken concepts from 'other religions' and mixed them with this religions statutes.

You don't include contextual variables, in the basis of the spiritual sacrifice, ['charity', of the offering of salvation


It isn't 'necessarily more than belief'.
It actually is. Scripture tells us that.

That's what John 3:36 means,
So are you saying that the "only" thing you have to do is based on belief? Your just picking your own verses and discarding others. What verse is there that says, the only thing you have to do is believe.

'Not necessarily more than belief'.
So, when the bible says that baptism, truth, faith, endurance, hope saves...... that's me going to far? And bringing other religions into my faith? My whole point is that it is not just belief..... Like you say.

You've taken concepts from 'other religions' and mixed them with this religions statutes.
Ughhhh, here we go again...... I really wish you would stop talking like this. Why would I take other religions into my belief? Let's not talk stupid and stop insulting people.

You don't include contextual variables, in the basis of the spiritual sacrifice, ['charity', of the offering of salvation
And what contextual variables I'm I using? lol

Ok so your charity word.... Charity is love, correct? Or are you thinking of something else?.... You could say love has alot to do with salvation, absolutely. But since your not telling us what "Greek" book your getting this charity word from, it really doesnt completely fit the context of God's Grace. It is part of it, but there's more to it. I"ve looked up the word "Grace", charity never comes up. I really dont know where your getting this from. But anyhow, I"m done with this. Let's move on.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
John 3:36

You can take your argument up with the Bible, I guess.

John 3:36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.

I believe that many think a little belief in Jesus is what this means but I do not. I believe one has to believe everything He says. So the Muslims say they believe in Jesus but they don't believe Him when He says He is going to die and rise again.

So the answer is that one must have faith in what Jesus says and what He says is given freely (grace). It is not good enough to believe He said it.
 
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Muffled

Jesus in me
Ephesians 2:8

'Charity',

Is the word in the greek,

[[the word used in the english Bible, is actually a different word in english, not a direct meaning correlation. In other words, a believer knows it means charity, because they already know that salvation is through Faith.

And just means salvation because of the faith.

Not some other concept.

In other words, it's all about faith, [hence because of the Charity, of the offer of salvation.

I believe I know it means grace because of the context: Eph 2:8 .... And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast

One gets charity whether one works for it or not but grace is given despite the fact that it isn't works.
 

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
I believe I know it means grace because of the context: Eph 2:8 .... And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast

One gets charity whether one works for it or not but grace is given despite the fact that it isn't works.
One has to define works, there. That is the idea with salvation via faith, [have to know what that means,
And, the faulty notion that a 'balancing effect' can be acheived.

Hence, faith is misrepresented mostly, in christianity.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
One has to define works, there. That is the idea with salvation via faith, [have to know what that means,
And, the faulty notion that a 'balancing effect' can be acheived.

Hence, faith is misrepresented mostly, in christianity.

I believe works are anything that one does or thinks.

I believe faith is not earned or worked for but is the gift of God. However faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God. Still even that hearing requires a gift because many read the word of God and never receive faith.

A balancing of what?

I believe your premise is questionable so that mean the conclusion is also. i believe I don't go by Christianity but by the Bible.
 
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