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In the bible does it say how humans learned magic?

nPeace

nPeace

Veteran Member
74x12 said:
Yes they were. However in Genesis 6:4 it says "and also after that" so it is indicating in my opinion that there were also giants after the flood. Which means that another group of angels came down again afterwards and did it again. This explains why the people saw "nephilim" in the promised land and reported this to Moses. Then you have giants such as Og king of Bashan and the "sons of Anak" among others mentioned.

As for Noah's sons practicing magic ... well most likely not. But, that doesn't mean some of their descendants didn't. Ancient writings from Mesopotamia indicate that some people knew how to read writings (such as clay tablets etc) from before the flood. So this means they could have found writings and learned what people were doing before the flood.
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If we all speculated like that, there would be no need for the Bible, imo. We could all have our little story of what happened.
If however, we really believe the Bible to be God's word, we would let it speak, imo.

Genesis 6:5 follows Genesis 6:4. It reads, "[And] God saw..."
In my understanding, when verse 4 says, "in those days" whether one argues that it refers to the time when the sons of God noticed the daughters of men and bore children with them, or 120 years after that, the fact remains that after the flood, there were no offspring of angels remaining. So the 120 years of cohabitation between angels and women was still ended by the flood.

Verse 1 says this all began when men were growing in numbers / multiplying on the earth. So that's a long time. It came to an end with the flood.
That's how it reads to me.
If you read it difficultly, and feel free to speculate, on what is not written, it's your choice. Jehovah endowed man with the freedom to choose.
Jesus followed this thinking... John 8:31, 32
 
sooda

sooda

Veteran Member
Landon Caeli said:
"A word fitly spoken is like apples of gold in pictures of silver."...?

Also, what's SOS?
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Song of Solomon.

The similarities between the Song and ancient Egyptian and Mesopotamian love poems are so strong that we can assume their general influence.
 
W

whirlingmerc

Well-Known Member
sooda said:
So many of the Psalms are nearly identical to North Coast Canaanite tablet writing that predate Adam and Eve.
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similarities and differences?

Alternatively the ode to a storm God of Cannanite lore might be replaced by the true 'god of thunder' is YHVH not Baal in Psalm 29 and the voice of YHWH being the power not Balls tools

That would make sense.
 
sooda

sooda

Veteran Member
whirlingmerc said:
similarities and differences?

Alternatively the ode to a storm God might be replaced by the true 'god of thunder' is YHVH not Baal

That would make sense.
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Not much.. The Ugaritic tablets were discovered in Ras Shamra in 1929 and have absolutely changed understanding of the scriptures. They are much older and in 4-5 ancient languages.
 
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whirlingmerc

Well-Known Member
sooda said:
Not much.. The Ugaritic tablets were discovered in Ras Shamra in 1929 and have absolutely changed understanding of the scriptures. They are much older and in 4-5 ancient languages.
Click to expand...

I'm sure from a skeptical point of view it's a slam dunk, it always it.

In reality Psalm 29 mentions the voice of the Lord 6 times
and uses YHWH and is marked Psalm of David

Still entirely consistent that David might use a literary genre known then
which is alway what Daniel did in Babylon as he used a multilingual chiasm in the book of Daniel known in the Babylonian literature

Rewriting a hymn to God in a literary form from the era is entirely possible
 
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sooda

sooda

Veteran Member
whirlingmerc said:
I'm sure from a skeptical point of view it's a slam dunk, it always it.

In reality Psalm 29 mentions the voice of the Lord 6 times
and uses YHWH and is marked Psalm of David

Still entirely consistent that David might use a literary genre known then
which is alway what Daniel did in Babylon as he used a multilingual chiasm in the book of Daniel known in the Babylonian literature

Rewriting a hymn to God in a literary form from the era is entirely possible
Click to expand...

Daniel is a complete fiction written during the time of Antiochus IV Epiphanes.

The Ugaritic texts did have a Daniel, but that was long before the Babylonian exile.
 
74x12

74x12

Well-Known Member
nPeace said:
If we all speculated like that, there would be no need for the Bible, imo. We could all have our little story of what happened.
If however, we really believe the Bible to be God's word, we would let it speak, imo.

Genesis 6:5 follows Genesis 6:4. It reads, "[And] God saw..."
In my understanding, when verse 4 says, "in those days" whether one argues that it refers to the time when the sons of God noticed the daughters of men and bore children with them, or 120 years after that, the fact remains that after the flood, there were no offspring of angels remaining. So the 120 years of cohabitation between angels and women was still ended by the flood.

Verse 1 says this all began when men were growing in numbers / multiplying on the earth. So that's a long time. It came to an end with the flood.
That's how it reads to me.
If you read it difficultly, and feel free to speculate, on what is not written, it's your choice. Jehovah endowed man with the freedom to choose.
Jesus followed this thinking... John 8:31, 32
Click to expand...
Then you need some explanation for the nephilim being in the land of Canaan. (Numbers 13:33) You see, my "speculation" explains all that. I believe it's more than just speculation; there is much evidence for what I believe besides the book of Enoch.

However it's not a big deal if you don't want to believe it. It's just that I believe there are still giants out there and they will be returning as well in the end times. Jesus said that men's hearts would fail for fear from looking at those things coming on the earth. I can't think of very many things likely to cause this more than cannibal giants.

Also Jesus may have hinted that the nephilim would be back when He said "as in the days of Noah" they were "marrying and giving in marriage". So if we go back to Genesis 6 we see that in the days of Noah they were marrying the "sons of God" and giving their daughters in marriage to them.

Many covens of witches believe they are so called "brides of satan". This is a common title for high priestesses in these groups and they do claim to have sexual intercourse with spirit beings.
 
nPeace

nPeace

Veteran Member
74x12 said:
Then you need some explanation for the nephilim being in the land of Canaan. (Numbers 13:33) You see, my "speculation" explains all that. I believe it's more than just speculation; there is much evidence for what I believe besides the book of Enoch.

However it's not a big deal if you don't want to believe it. It's just that I believe there are still giants out there and they will be returning as well in the end times. Jesus said that men's hearts would fail for fear from looking at those things coming on the earth. I can't think of very many things likely to cause this more than cannibal giants.

Also Jesus may have hinted that the nephilim would be back when He said "as in the days of Noah" they were "marrying and giving in marriage". So if we go back to Genesis 6 we see that in the days of Noah they were marrying the "sons of God" and giving their daughters in marriage to them.

Many covens of witches believe they are so called "brides of satan". This is a common title for high priestesses in these groups and they do claim to have sexual intercourse with spirit beings.
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See this link - There were no Nephilim, after the flood.
I understand you have your ideas. I am just saying we let the Bible speak, and we try to understand what it says, but our understanding should not be guided by speculating on what is not written.
 
Pastek

Pastek

Sunni muslim
In Islam we have something similar to what some christians said.
It's 2 angels who teached about magic in Babylon.
But we don't believe in fallen angels.

2.102 (...) It was not Solomon who disbelieved, but the devils disbelieved, teaching people magic and that which was revealed to the two angels at Babylon, Harut and Marut.
But the two angels do not teach anyone unless they say, "We are a trial, so do not disbelieve [by practicing magic]."
 
W

whirlingmerc

Well-Known Member
Screen Shot 2019-09-04 at 7.33.20 AM.png
sooda said:
Daniel is a complete fiction written during the time of Antiochus IV Epiphanes.

The Ugaritic texts did have a Daniel, but that was long before the Babylonian exile.
Click to expand...

There is substantial evidence Daniel is completely true. You're not seeing the writing on the wall.

A Posited Debate - The Book of Daniel
 
sooda

sooda

Veteran Member
whirlingmerc said:
View attachment 32611

There is substantial evidence Daniel is completely true. You're not seeing the writing on the wall.

A Posited Debate - The Book of Daniel
Click to expand...

Nearly all biblical scholars say that the Book of Daniel was written approximately 167 BCE, although not necessarily in order to fool people. The target audience was the Jews of the second century BCE, not the Christians centuries later, and Daniel is listed in the Jewish Tanakh as ‘Scriptures’, not as one of the ‘Prophecy’ books.

Can the book of Daniel be a fiction written in 167BC but ...
www.quora.com/Can-the-book-of-Daniel-be-a-fiction-written-in-167BC-but-set-in-an-earlier-tim…
 
W

whirlingmerc

Well-Known Member
sooda said:
Nearly all biblical scholars say that the Book of Daniel was written approximately 167 BCE, although not necessarily in order to fool people. The target audience was the Jews of the second century BCE, not the Christians centuries later, and Daniel is listed in the Jewish Tanakh as ‘Scriptures’, not as one of the ‘Prophecy’ books.

Can the book of Daniel be a fiction written in 167BC but ...
www.quora.com/Can-the-book-of-Daniel-be-a-fiction-written-in-167BC-but-set-in-an-earlier-tim…
Click to expand...

There is substantial evidence for the reliability of the book of Daniel and historic evidence for Daniel and his 3 friends living then
 
sooda

sooda

Veteran Member
whirlingmerc said:
There is substantial evidence for the reliability of the book of Daniel and historic evidence for Daniel and his 3 friends living then
Click to expand...

There was no Daniel.. It was written by a committee during the Macabbean revolt.. Daniel is NOT considered a prophet. Its purpose was to give the Jews hope during the time of the Abomintion of desolation inflicted on them by Antiouchus IV Epiphhanes.
 
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