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Judaism and the Garden of Eden?
- Thread starter Aurelius
- Start date
LightofTruth
Well-Known Member
Jews think the serpent represents man's own inclination towards evil. I think they're right.
Terry Sampson
Well-Known Member
sooda
Veteran Member
Yes... by the time Genesis was written after the Babylonian exile there were many, many clay tablets in Dilmun (Bahrain) that told a creation story, global flood story, and recorded commericial trade relations between Dilmun, Mesopotamia and the Indus Valley.
Some think that Dilmun was the "location" of Eden, because although it rarely rained the archipelago had a unique feature.. many many freshwater springs.
sooda
Veteran Member
Or maybe not. Serpent cults were prevalent in Egypt, Mesopotamia, the Levant, the Arabian Peninsula and the Indus Valley. The snake was seen as a symbol of wisdom, fertility, resurrection and eternal life (or life renewed).
Portraying the serpent as a tempter and adversary of man and God may have been a matter of dualing religions.
susanblange
Active Member
The story of Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden is a parable, and it is not meant to be taken literally. What A&E did was a sexual act. Genesis 3:15 sums up the Bible.
sooda
Veteran Member
Nonsense.. the verse means that the offspring of snakes and the offspring of humans will always be enemies. LOLOL Its has NOTHING to do with a sex act. What denomination teaches such a thing?
15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
rosends
Well-Known Member
It is about a history and an explanation for the current state of man. We don't see it as a "fall" in the conventional sense, but about a mistake and its consequences in changing the nature of humanity.
Wandering Monk
Well-Known Member
That sounds like a distinction without a difference.
sooda
Veteran Member
Its an allegory.. Instead of trusting in God's providence, Adam and Eve were shifting from hunter-gatherers to agriculture. Note that Cain's sacrificial offering of vegetables was rejected over Abel's offering of meat.
rosends
Well-Known Member
There is a big difference. Instead of saying that there is some sort of stain (an inherent sin) which would signal a fall, we believe that there is an inherent tendency towards sin that must be overcome. We haven't automatically lost the fight, needing some external force to help us out. We have to fight the fight and it is within us to win.
sooda
Veteran Member
So for you its not about original sin or inherited sin? I happen to agree.
Or simply the lush green gardens of Babylon. And the serpent, the symbol of fertility rituals, etc., also tempting.
sooda
Veteran Member
I don't think so.. The garden as its describes having four rivers fits Dilmun better. Its a good setting for a myth.
Dilmun, or Telmun, was an ancient Semitic-speaking polity in Arabia mentioned from the 3rd millennium BC onwards. Based on textual evidence, it was located in the Persian Gulf, on a trade route between Mesopotamia and the Indus Valley Civilisation, close to the sea and to artesian springs.
A number of scholars have suggested that Dilmun originally designated the eastern province of Saudi Arabia, notably linked with the major Dilmunite settlements of Umm an-Nussi and Umm ar-Ramadh in the interior.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dilmun
sooda
Veteran Member
- Garden of Eden, Dilmun, Bahrain - Finally been located?
travelexplorations.com/garden-of-eden-dilmun-bahrain-finally-been-located.4563785.html
Mar 05, 2009 · See Tombs of Dilmun. Dilum was probably the island Bahrain in the Persian gulf. There is a Sumerian story entitled Enki and Ninhursag which describes a paradise similar to Eden only it is called Dilmun. It says: The land Dilmun is pure, the land Dilmun is clean; The land Dilmun is clean, the land Dilmun is most bright.
- Sumerian Dilmun vs. Eden - GeoCities
www.geocities.ws/garyweb65/eden1.html
A garden was planted in the east, in Eden. Paradise-Dilmun was also in the east. Similarity. Man was put in the Garden of Eden. No mention of this in Sumerian myth. Actually Dilmun was a favorite place for the gods to hang out. Difference. Eden was full of all kinds of trees. Dilmun was the home of aromatics and cedar. Similar enough.
sooda
Veteran Member
Garden of Eden - Ancient History Encyclopedia
Ancient History EncyclopediaGarden_of_Eden
The description of the garden in Genesis 2:10-14 states that the water from Eden watered four important areas: Pishon, which flows into the land of Havilah; Gihon, which flows into the land of Cush; Tigris, which flows into the eastern side of Assyria; and the fourth is Euphrates. The garden is also said to have “every tree that is pleasant to the sight and good for food.” Yet, two trees are singled out: the “Tree of Life” in the middle of the garden and the “Tree of Knowledge of good and evil
Ancient History EncyclopediaGarden_of_Eden
The description of the garden in Genesis 2:10-14 states that the water from Eden watered four important areas: Pishon, which flows into the land of Havilah; Gihon, which flows into the land of Cush; Tigris, which flows into the eastern side of Assyria; and the fourth is Euphrates. The garden is also said to have “every tree that is pleasant to the sight and good for food.” Yet, two trees are singled out: the “Tree of Life” in the middle of the garden and the “Tree of Knowledge of good and evil
exchemist
Veteran Member
Actually what @rosends said is exactly what my parish priest told us Original Sin signified, when we were learning Catholic doctrine as children - a predisposition toward sin.
So the difference is, as he says, that Christians believe Christ came to give us a new teaching and example to help us overcome this.
There is a lot of other technical theology in some denominations, about the idea of Atonement through sacrifice of Christ as a scapegoat and so on, but all of that strikes me as rather absurd, relying as it does on God being a bloodthirsty tyrant who has to be appeased by sacrifice of his own Son (an echo of Abraham and Isaac).
sooda
Veteran Member
Great post.. Thank you. Sometime Protestant fundies and evangelicals get really out there …. My grandchildren are Catholic and they have been taught what you described.
susanblange
Active Member
Genesis 3:15. The serpent is a phallic symbol of power. A eunuch is called a "dry tree". Isaiah 56:3. Adam's name was changed to Satan when he died and went to Heaven. There is no talking snake or magical fruit. There is enmity between the wicked and the righteous. We are either the seed of Adam/Satan or the seed of Eve/God. Jesus was the second Adam. The true Messiah is the second Eve. Not only was Eve Adam's wife, she was also his daughter. Eve is "the Tree of Life", she bears children and milk is the fruit of the Tree of Life. The holy blood line was continued by Seth. Genesis 4:25.