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What’s your main reason for being a theist or an atheist?

Bob the Unbeliever

Bob the Unbeliever

Well-Known Member
adrian009 said:
The best beloved of all things in the sight of God is justice. If children are oppressed in this world there is a recompense in the next:
Click to expand...

Oh! I did not realize!

Your god to little Billy: "So very sorry, Billy, that you had to die like that after weeks of torture. I really had to teach your parents a Lesson. But, anyway, the guy that murdered and dismembered you and your little sister? He turned out to be one of the Good Guys. There he is! Go over and say 'hello'..."
 
Bob the Unbeliever

Bob the Unbeliever

Well-Known Member
columbus said:
I was unpleasantly surprised to find that @adrian009 rated this post "friendly". It's anything but friendly, it's pretty darned arrogant.
Ignorant as well. How many times must it be repeated? Non-theism is not an assertion, it is the lack of one. There is no argument for it, there's no reason to have one. It's the people making religious assertions who need arguments to support their claims.

This is not the first time that this has been explained. But for some reason theists commonly cannot see the obvious, even when it's right in front of their nose.
Tom
Click to expand...

The character Dr House: "If you could reason with theists, there wouldn't be any theists."

:)
 
Bob the Unbeliever

Bob the Unbeliever

Well-Known Member
adrian009 said:
We’ve had this conversation. 20% is NOT the number of theists by anyone’s estimate. Its the figure you’ve used to exaggerate your claim about the numbers of atheists..
Click to expand...

20% IS the number of THE LARGEST SINGLE GROUP (Catholics). I explained that is what I meant. It is also the latest number of non-theists.... the fastest growing group.

I ignored your outdated chart-- it is old.

Why are you projecting a False Strawman here?

It is highly-- HIGHLY disingenuous to attempt to lump all these groups into one mass.

They have zip-all in common. Proof? Historically, they have all too often tried to murder members of the other groups... and they still do, even today.
 
Bob the Unbeliever

Bob the Unbeliever

Well-Known Member
adrian009 said:
Although the term fundamentalist is often applied to religious people it can be applied to non-religious people too.

Fundamentalism - Wikipedia
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BUT YOU DID NOT APPLY IT TO PEOPLE! YOU APPLIED IT TO A MEME, A SINGLE IDEA OR CONCEPT. And it was silly! The way YOU wrote it, makes zero sense. You may well have asked which color of Relational Database is Best.... ! Or ask "what color is clear?" Or worst of all-- said you can only trust a Doctor of Medicine, who is a Taurus or something...

Nonsensical!

Atheism cannot be fundamental, evangelical, etc, etc-- because it's nothing but the answer to a theistic claim.

Now.... people who are atheists? Can be fundamental with respect to certain moral codes and/or ideas. But that isn't what you said. You said "atheism" -- which is nonsense.

 
Bob the Unbeliever

Bob the Unbeliever

Well-Known Member
adrian009 said:
God has created us and the universe to enable us to know and to worship Him, whether as individuals or communities. Tests are there to strengthen and purify us spiritually. The Baha’i Writings emphasise death shall eventually come upon us all and we will all be called to give account to Him. Best we are well tested in this world to enable to meet our Lord in the world to come. Much of what troubles us in this world will simple vanish in the next.
Click to expand...

So. This imperfect god had a NEED, to create a lessor being to stroke it's massively over-bloated ego?

And out of it's capricious nature, it waned to torture most, and deliberately withheld rational evidence, so that only the most gullible would fall for it's trap?

Or is your description of a god Clever Like A Fox, in that only the most gullible, the most foolish of humans would be dumb enough to fall for a "heaven" that consisted of infinite ego-stroking of the obviously very needy megalomaniac god? That anyone with a working brain would be unhappy in the extreme in such a "heaven"?

So those poor saps get infinite torture instead-- because they were behaving exactly how they were created to behave?

Face it: Free Will is actually impossible, if God Exists, and has All Power, All Knowing, etc, etc, etc.
 
Aurelius

Aurelius

Contemplating Living
I'm an atheist most simply because I see no strong indication there are gods. I also don't see that humans really know such a thing. I am also in awe of life and living to the fullest now- so not sure deity would add to this in any way.

It strikes me as a reflective Stoic practitioner that metaphysical beliefs can be ways that humans take away from life's meaningfulness and our own ability by placing everything lofty and noble outside our present nature.

I look deeply at this life and find it enough.
 
C

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
Bob the Unbeliever said:
Actually? Since you failed to qualify the word in any reasonable way? You most certainly did use it in the general sense.

Why don't you simply admit, you made a mistake? When you wrote "clear" you really meant "clear to me" ... everyone makes mistakes now and then.
Click to expand...

@Trailblazer

My mother inlaw has a big clear plate glass window in her bedroom. It's a bay window that goes almost to the ceiling. It looks out on the woodsy area behind the house, and she loves it.

If I roller painted it black, and missed a little spot two feet above her head, would that window still qualify as "clear" to you?
By the meaning of the word clear you used in your explanation of Bahai it would. It would still be possible to see the trees, vaguely, if she stood on a ladder.

Using words in such a self serving and counter intuitive manner doesn't give me any reason to think that you know more about God than I do, quite the contrary.
It gives me reason to believe that your religious beliefs are based on your belief that you are smarter, more informed, more disciplined, and more "enlightened" than the rest of us. In other words egotistical.
Tom
 
Aupmanyav

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
I think we have cooked the Bahais well. Any more cooking will bake them black.
(English is not my first language)
 
C

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
Aupmanyav said:
I think we have cooked the Bahais well. Any more cooking will bake them black.
(English is not my first language)
Click to expand...
I have been told by Abrahamic religionists that I hate God because "believing" would interfere with my sinning.
Including a Bahai, someone I mentioned in my post.

If religionists will keep lying about me and proselytizing on the internet I will keep responding in kind.

They could keep their religious opinions to themselves, but they won't. So, I will probably keep amusing myself by pointing out that they are wrong and why they are wrong.
It's easy.
Tom
 
Trailblazer

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
ratiocinator said:
That makes absolutely no sense at all. If there is a god that wants to be known, the last thing one would expect is it to be hiding amongst the world's endless, and contradictory, superstitions.
Click to expand...
As long as you view the great world religions as superstitions you will never understand. God does not reveal Himself ANY other way except through Messengers who establish religions. The fact that you expect something different from God does not change the reality regarding how God communicates to humans.
Maybe what you should do is try to make sense of it.
ratiocinator said:
The most recent superstitions are likely to be where this god that wants to be known is hiding - that makes even less sense.
Click to expand...
If God needed to be known, I can see why you would say that, but God does not need to be known, although God wants to be known. Regardless of what God wants, God never changes His time honored method of communication. Most people do not recognize God's new Messenger for a long time after He appears, but they still believe in God because of one of the previous Messengers.

According to sociologists Ariela Keysar and Juhem Navarro-Rivera's review of numerous global studies on atheism, there are 450 to 500 million positive atheists and agnostics worldwide (7% of the world's population), with China having the most atheists in the world (200 million convinced atheists). Demographics of atheism - Wikipedia

That means that 93% of the world population believes in God.

If God had never used Messengers, hardly anyone would believe in God because the main reason people believe in God is because of one of those Messengers. We know that because very few people in the world believe in God for some other reason. 84 percent of the world population has a faith and those faiths all have some kind of Founder, what I refer to as a Messenger. So obviously, using Messengers is a successful method of communication.

There will always be people who do not believe in God because man has free will so man can choose to believe in God or not. This is exactly the way God wants it, otherwise God would not have created man with free will.
 
U

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
adrian009 said:
Although the main part of this thread is simply asking others what they believe and why, if anyone wants to debate and challenge they are fully entitled too. For myself, I’m just wanting to better understand atheists. I’m not interested in demolishing anyone’s beliefs though. That would be disrespectful and contrary to the spirit and purpose of the forum.
Click to expand...

Hmm. Let me ask. Is there other questions or insights you'd like to ask of atheists? I know we don't believe in gods, and that's pretty much as far as it goes, unless....
 
Trailblazer

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
columbus said:
@Trailblazer

My mother inlaw has a big clear plate glass window in her bedroom. It's a bay window that goes almost to the ceiling. It looks out on the woodsy area behind the house, and she loves it.

If I roller painted it black, and missed a little spot two feet above her head, would that window still qualify as "clear" to you?
By the meaning of the word clear you used in your explanation of Bahai it would. It would still be possible to see the trees, vaguely, if she stood on a ladder.

Using words in such a self serving and counter intuitive manner doesn't give me any reason to think that you know more about God than I do, quite the contrary.
It gives me reason to believe that your religious beliefs are based on your belief that you are smarter, more informed, more disciplined, and more "enlightened" than the rest of us. In other words egotistical.
Tom
Click to expand...
You do not know what I think and it it is egotistical for you to think you know.
No, I do not think I am smarter, more informed, more disciplined, and more "enlightened" than anyone else.

This is not about MY religion. Not everyone can see the clear message but that does not mean it is not clear. It just means that most people are too blind to see what is clear.

Jesus said exactly the same thing as Baha'u'llah about people who are too blind to see the clear message. It is the same in every age. History repeats itself.

Matthew 13:9-16 New International Version (NIV)

9 Whoever has ears, let them hear.”

10 The disciples came to him and asked, “Why do you speak to the people in parables?”

11 He replied, “Because the knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them. 12 Whoever has will be given more, and they will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what they have will be taken from them. 13 This is why I speak to them in parables:

“Though seeing, they do not see;
though hearing, they do not hear or understand.

14 In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah:

“‘You will be ever hearing but never understanding;
you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.
15 For this people’s heart has become calloused;
they hardly hear with their ears,
and they have closed their eyes.
Otherwise they might see with their eyes,
hear with their ears,
understand with their hearts
and turn, and I would heal them.’[a]

16 But blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear.
 
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Bob the Unbeliever

Bob the Unbeliever

Well-Known Member
Trailblazer said:
No I meant clear to anyone who has eyes to see, as Jesus said.
That is more than me.
Click to expand...

No. Once again, you are being disingenuous. Nice attempt at a diversion into an irrelevant rabbit-trail.

Admit that you were wrong in the Fractal Sense: At every level of zooming in? You were still wrong. Zoom out? Still wrong. All levels of Wrongness.
 
Bob the Unbeliever

Bob the Unbeliever

Well-Known Member
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