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Church offers lower payouts to black abuse victims
- Thread starter Epic Beard Man
- Start date
Curious George
Veteran Member
It sounds like sexual abuse of minors, especially with authoritarian hierarchies bothers you. That is a good thing. We should indeed be trying to eliminate this behavior. That does not mean we cannot also discuss racial bias and discrimination in our legal system. Especially when the brunt of that discussion falls on how our society values damages experienced by black victims vs. white victims. Just because the given example involves something that angers you does not mean that the point is any less meaningful.
If I were you I would try to separate the issues. On one hand we have sexual assault of minor children, and on the other we have disparities in remedies.
We are discussing the latter. This does not mean we are not all on the same page regarding the former.
Tis as I said.
You have not presented any evidence that the lower payments were because of the race of the recipients. There could be many other factors that explained the lower amount. Since every case is different it is reasonable to expect that the amount of settlements would also vary. Race may or may not be a factor. But you haven’t made a case in establishing that it was.
Epic Beard Man
Bearded Philosopher
Legitimate enough that the church is willing to shell out $15,000. Legitimate enough for a representative of this diocese to say, "if you want more money you need a lawyer to call my lawyer." Any illegitimate claim wouldn't even get close to any type of discussion like that.
Epic Beard Man
Bearded Philosopher
True, but why would two different victims make this up? I don't see how people here in this thread are willing to accept the fact that these two could have been shafted because they're poor, but not because of their ethnicity.
This is comparing apples and oranges. You cannot impart the idea because of your mental status that they too, like yourself suffer from some psychiatric condition that may affect their memory and judgement. You are essentially saying that their feelings are a farce. It is not only disingenuous but its downright ignorant.
We aren't talking about "everything" we're talking about one specific incident that happened to two individuals who were sexually assaulted.
Epic Beard Man
Bearded Philosopher
What other factors?
So since you're a legal analyst tell me what was the reason why other victims of sexual abuse who were non-black paid substantially a lot more than these two.
This is a news article, I just posted it here. Why am I going to research something that doesn't display all the facts? Fact is these two individuals received $15k most likely signed a document preventing them to take further legal action...Case closed. I'm more so concerned about the feelings of these two victims who felt that their economic status along with their ethnic background played a part.
Epic Beard Man
Bearded Philosopher
I'm black. My parents are black. My parents and their grand-parents suffered from discriminatory practices. I, a descendant of them, have suffered from the residual effects of system discrimination so I don't see how my experiences do not resonate with the victims? I think it's quite rational.
You do not tell me or anyone else what to do when we feel we are being discriminated against. It is doubly important for any victim of sexual abuse to highlight their suffering and make us aware of what they went through. What we in the African-American community hate is when whites want to tell people of color how to feel and how to analyze their own suffering. You don't have the privilege to tell someone how they should see their reality.
These two didn't cry wolf, they were sexually assaulted obviously, considering that this diocese wanted to pay them for it.
Because I'm inclined to believe victims of sexual abuse (regardless of ethnicity) and what they have went through.
I think @Curious George provided a good logical breakdown
Epic Beard Man
Bearded Philosopher
What do you need identifying groups as needing a special kind of attention. Here we have an article of two victims who happened to be black and who happened to have had a meeting in secret and was offered and paid $15,000 a significant less amount than their non-black counterparts. That in it of itself is suspicious to me. It is unethical and perhaps illegal.
Nobody here is saying sexual abuse can heal itself by offering victims money. What's problematic here is why were non-black victims of sexual abuse paid a lot more than these two? That is the question. If it wasn't racial then what is it? It seems people are moving goal post here. It's almost like saying "well the other people who were paid a lot more was because of [insert reason]" but if I speculate race as being a factor why they were paid less, it is somehow questionable. The implicit racial biases here in this thread is strong in some of the responses here.
As I've said previously lack of empathy and implicit racial bias. I like the fact that most of the people believe it's because they're poor, and not their ethnicity is the primary factor.
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Primarily because it's a self-serving cash settlement arrangement on behalf of the Catholic Church offered to abuse victims in exchange for their continued silence basically. They're offering cash in lieu of litigation that could take years down the road. It's a bit like lowbrow cashier check scams aimed at the vulnerable to make it all go away pennies on the dollar in expedited fashion.
While it's true involving the cases of the black gentleman, black people aren't the only ones being offered this arrangement , which is why I question if it's motivated entirely on race here such as the case of Jim Pliska, a white man from Scranton Pennsylvania who pretty much has the same raw deal as La Garvis and Joshua Love have been given.
MikeDwight
Well-Known Member
What if the black guys were inexperienced Gieshas? I still say its all in Korea. Not Catholic, instead, its Shinto. Koreans are inexperienced Geisha and its why they have occupational hazards and 100,000 women are abused and killed etc. The Shinto God-soldiers destroy their bodies with meat cleavers for blood orgies, usually metaphorically. Other Geishas have different standards, low-class geishas.
A Vestigial Mote
Well-Known Member
Well, consider: I initially tried to care enough to attempt to read it over 4 times. After the fourth, I realized that if you weren't going to take the time to make sense, then it didn't much matter what the message ultimately was... which is one reason I said I didn't care at all what you were saying. The other reason is because it sounded like you were being racist yourself, or walking a very thin line. And even then... it was so hard to tell what side of the fence your comments were falling on. Again - you're incoherent. Even this reply to me contained some strange things that didn't seem to flow with what I initially replied to you with. What does you having traversed all denominations that you can think of have to do with how hard your posts are to decipher? In your last paragraph, I believe you may have hinted at the trouble - you said "in my absolutely sober state" - indicating that other states of yours may not tend to be "absolutely sober." Interesting, isn't it?
Curious George
Veteran Member
Leads me to wonder if you are choosing not to see resistance or if you truly cannot.
Also, i am curious as to why you don't see it.
I wonder if you want to see resistance, & thus it appears.
I am curious why you want so strongly to see it.
TagliatelliMonster
Veteran Member
So you're just sticking to your "guilt is assumed until innosence is proven" warped logic, I see.
Curious George
Veteran Member
Curious George
Veteran Member
No. I had anticipated most would have said that it was possibly a factor but they simply wouldn't conclude it was a key factor without hearing the catholic church's accounting.
I would much prefer not seeing it. But i gave you quotes of people dismissing the idea that race was a factor. Can you explain the reasoning for that resistance when there seems to be no logical reason to dismiss the notion out of hand?
NewGuyOnTheBlock
Cult Survivor/Fundamentalist Pentecostal Apostate
I spent a bit too much time on forums the other day and didn't get enough rest. My apologies for emotional outbursts.
That doesn't legitimize the claims imho. The accused often pay out to hush the matter with minimal embarasment or scandal. I do not agree with this claim.
I am open to the possibility of racial discrimination in this case. At present, I am not convinced that it was motivated by racial discrimination and I'm not convinced that it wasn't.
I'm not comparing apples to oranges. I "might" be comparing cherry tomatoes to the Amana Orange. Everyone's perceptions and memories are flawed, to varying degrees, and that degree changes based on a lot of factors. Subjective, eyewitness perceptions and testimony are the lowest forms of evidence. That is not to say that they are not evidence. But evidence that should be regarded with the highest degree of skepticism.
That doesn't legitimize the claims imho. The accused often pay out to hush the matter with minimal embarasment or scandal. I do not agree with this claim.
I am open to the possibility of racial discrimination in this case. At present, I am not convinced that it was motivated by racial discrimination and I'm not convinced that it wasn't.
As far as calling their feelings a "farce", that is incorrect. Their subjective perceptions of an event are highly important. Trauma, for example, is highly based on that person's perception of the event. Their perceptions are important, and processing their perceptions are integral to recovery and mental health, It is important.
I'm not comparing apples to oranges. I "might" be comparing cherry tomatoes to the Amana Orange. Everyone's perceptions and memories are flawed, to varying degrees, and that degree changes based on a lot of factors. Subjective, eyewitness perceptions and testimony are the lowest forms of evidence. That is not to say that they are not evidence. But evidence that should be regarded with the highest degree of skepticism.
TagliatelliMonster
Veteran Member
It doesn't look like I need one.
It seems as if all I need to do is point out that the modus operandi here is the exact opposite of how justice systems work.
People aren't considered guilty until innocence is shown.
It's the other way round...
TagliatelliMonster
Veteran Member
If this is referring to me, then I feel compelled to point out that at no point here did I claim that it wasn't about race. At best, I point out that the accusation that it IS about race, hasn't been sufficiently evidenced and that poverty or ignorance on the part of the victim seems like a perfectly plausible and likely reason why they got shafted.
It's upto the ones who claim racial motivations were a factor, to support that claim.
I haven't seen any sufficient support for this at all.