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Can we be sure?

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
Maybe the way many people (including me) often tend to say to others, Your belief is wrong (spiritually/ Religious) But how can we be sure we are the ones who believe correct?

May it be that we are all correct in different ways?
May it be that we, ourself does not grasp the full truth of the religion or spiritual teaching we follow?
Or for those who do not believe there is any God/s or other spiritual beings, Can you be sure that it is no sentient beings? But of some reason, you can not grasp it since you can not see them or feel them?
Or maybe we are all wrong and when we die as a human being it becomes nothing left?

I am woman, i am always sure.
 

SalixIncendium

अग्निविलोवनन्दः
Staff member
Premium Member
Maybe the way many people (including me) often tend to say to others, Your belief is wrong (spiritually/ Religious) But how can we be sure we are the ones who believe correct?

May it be that we are all correct in different ways?
May it be that we, ourself does not grasp the full truth of the religion or spiritual teaching we follow?
Or for those who do not believe there is any God/s or other spiritual beings, Can you be sure that it is no sentient beings? But of some reason, you can not grasp it since you can not see them or feel them?
Or maybe we are all wrong and when we die as a human being it becomes nothing left?

Or maybe there is no right or wrong. :)
 

gnomon

Well-Known Member
Maybe the way many people (including me) often tend to say to others, Your belief is wrong (spiritually/ Religious) But how can we be sure we are the ones who believe correct?

May it be that we are all correct in different ways?
May it be that we, ourself does not grasp the full truth of the religion or spiritual teaching we follow?
Or for those who do not believe there is any God/s or other spiritual beings, Can you be sure that it is no sentient beings? But of some reason, you can not grasp it since you can not see them or feel them?
Or maybe we are all wrong and when we die as a human being it becomes nothing left?

Fortunately therapists do not involve themselves with such nonsense.
 

Jainarayan

ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
Staff member
Premium Member
Maybe the way many people (including me) often tend to say to others, Your belief is wrong (spiritually/ Religious)

I don't feel the need to do that. At least not as a preemptive strike, throwing the first punch. I don't see why anyone feels the need to do that.

But how can we be sure we are the ones who believe correct?

I'm the only one that matters to. If I feel my beliefs are no longer correct, I'll change them. The Dalai Lama said something to the same effect, that if science were to unequivocally show that some belief of Buddhism is downright wrong, then those beliefs in Buddhism would have to be re-examined.
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
I don't feel the need to do that. At least not as a preemptive strike, throwing the first punch. I don't see why anyone feels the need to do that.



I'm the only one that matters to. If I feel my beliefs are no longer correct, I'll change them. The Dalai Lama said something to the same effect, that if science were to unequivocally show that some belief of Buddhism is downright wrong, then those beliefs in Buddhism would have to be re-examined.
I do agree with you on this. In the Buddhist suttas, it is said something similar to this, Buddha said that if we find something in his teaching we can not accept as truth we can abandon that part of the teaching, or if we find deeper truth then he was teaching that would be ok too
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
It is a great story, but it’s not about how they were each right.
It’s about how they were all wrong.
To me they were right in knowing one piece of the puzzle. They were wrong by thinking that they knew the entire puzzle.
 

Jainarayan

ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
Staff member
Premium Member
I do agree with you on this. In the Buddhist suttas, it is said something similar to this, Buddha said that if we find something in his teaching we can not accept as truth we can abandon that part of the teaching, or if we find deeper truth then he was teaching that would be ok too

“Now, Kalamas, don’t go by reports, by legends, by traditions, by scripture, by logical conjecture, by inference, by analogies, by agreement through pondering views, by probability, or by the thought, ‘This contemplative is our teacher.’ When you know for yourselves that, ‘These qualities are skillful; these qualities are blameless; these qualities are praised by the wise; these qualities, when adopted & carried out, lead to welfare & to happiness’ — then you should enter & remain in them.” - Kalama Sutta

:)
 

RedDragon94

Love everyone, meditate often
Maybe the way many people (including me) often tend to say to others, Your belief is wrong (spiritually/ Religious) But how can we be sure we are the ones who believe correct?
I just go for whatever makes the most sense. It's not hard.
May it be that we are all correct in different ways?
I don't know how one person can say there is a God, another person says there is no God, and both of them be correct.
May it be that we, ourself does not grasp the full truth of the religion or spiritual teaching we follow?
Can anybody really know what the full teaching is of their religion? That's why we have different religious groups in the world, they all have different themes of focus.
Or maybe we are all wrong and when we die as a human being it becomes nothing left?
Well, Jesus hasn't returned. If he did that'd probably convince me.
Or for those who do not believe there is any God/s or other spiritual beings, Can you be sure that it is no sentient beings? But of some reason, you can not grasp it since you can not see them or feel them?
Not sure what you mean. And I'm not sure if anything matters.

Sorry about the music, captures feeling.
 

Phaedrus

Active Member
With so many what-ifs and numerous schisms providing their own personal and biased interpretations of purely conceptual faiths via philosophical woo, I find it best to simply view them all as less than credible via atheistic wisdom.
 

Geoff-Allen

Resident megalomaniac
Maybe the way many people (including me) often tend to say to others, Your belief is wrong (spiritually/ Religious) But how can we be sure we are the ones who believe correct?

May it be that we are all correct in different ways?
May it be that we, ourself does not grasp the full truth of the religion or spiritual teaching we follow?
Or for those who do not believe there is any God/s or other spiritual beings, Can you be sure that it is no sentient beings? But of some reason, you can not grasp it since you can not see them or feel them?
Or maybe we are all wrong and when we die as a human being it becomes nothing left?

Interesting thread!

There is a quote I like - something along the lines of all religions have SOME of the truth but no religion has ALL of the truth.

Personally, life would be fairly mundane if we didn't have some mystery in our lives.

I don't even really look at beliefs in terms of "right" versus "wrong". I ask whether your beliefs are helping you or hindering you from becoming a compassionate human being.

All the best!
 

amorphous_constellation

Well-Known Member
Someone posted a quote from Phillip K. Dick on my social media. Though I haven't read his books, (but it turns out I have seen several movies based on them) I think he posted a quote that may be pertinent to this concern: "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, it doesn't go away." It doesn't get much more solid than that.
 

stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
I honestly feel when we die there is nothing left.
The moment we die at least the body is left
If not cremated that is obvious. Even if cremated ashes are left. That is not nothing.

So you try to say "I am not the body"?

So who are you?

If not body, one can argue I am mind (thoughts). But when in thoughtfree state for some minute I discovered I'm also not mind

So when not body, mind then I can argue I am emotions. But who is feeling the emotions?

So I am not body, mind, emotions

It seems I am the one witnessing all these

But where does this witness reside?

When I had outer body experience I knew this witness was not limited to body as it was outside the body

Even after being drugged and totally unconscious, I still "came back, so I was not totally gone

When having near death experience, I went through this tunnel of light, being a witness. So not gone. There was still something there.

So even when body dies, who says you, as witness, is totally gone, that nothing exists? I still can exist (as witness) as far as I have experienced.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
The moment we die at least the body is left
If not cremated that is obvious. Even if cremated ashes are left. That is not nothing.

So you try to say "I am not the body"?

So who are you?

If not body, one can argue I am mind (thoughts). But when in thoughtfree state for some minute I discovered I'm also not mind

So when not body, mind then I can argue I am emotions. But who is feeling the emotions?

So I am not body, mind, emotions

It seems I am the one witnessing all these

But where does this witness reside?

When I had outer body experience I knew this witness was not limited to body as it was outside the body

Even after being drugged and totally unconscious, I still "came back, so I was not totally gone

When having near death experience, I went through this tunnel of light, being a witness. So not gone. There was still something there.

So even when body dies, who says you, as witness, is totally gone, that nothing exists? I still can exist (as witness) as far as I have experienced.

In my experience, surgeries, etc and loved ones passing, the older I get the more I feel nothing continues on. I somewhat believe in a soul but then I realized souls are one's personality. How we define ourselves is by our identity and personality-our soul. That's why you have children who are ol' souls. Then, I thought, maybe spirit. My mother says she saw spirits and I thought I experienced and felt them. Then I looked it up more and my illness and all and realized the part of the brain that causes emotions, disconnection, auras, and illusions in my experiences come from that part of the brain my illness affected.

When my aunt passed away and I held her ashes, I didn't pray to god or anything like that but it was more of a closure-she's gone. It took a year or so to even write this.

Then, my surgeries, the anesthesia, who was I that passed out? If the soul or spirit exist or thoughts or consciousness how is it aware of itself; and, why is it separate from the brain and body? Even more so, why does the body need to die for consciousness to have any significance but if we pass out, then we don't give it much thought.

Then I thought, when they said count to five I had no recollection of saying even three. I could have been out for years and wouldn't know it. Consciousness and awareness shouldn't be dependent on the body if it is our identity and our body turns to ash. That's probably why you have mediators try to connect with consciousness in a continued life, type of thing and shedding the ego or body or so have you one units with consciousness, roughly described.

I don't believe in outer body experiences. There are many causes of it but doctors don't look into the morality of it though. So, everyone's view is different.

A lot of afterlife beliefs have to do with fear. I can hear it in people's voices or "read" the tone in posts etc. Even hardstone christians one time or another say, "but there's got to be order..." almost as if they can't understand a random world, a soulless world, type of thing.

It's highly subjective. Just what I believe is there is no afterlife and no separate identity. I value my flesh and I value the spirit/life that, well, keeps me breathing until I die. I'll be ash too but the best I can do is get to that point that I accept it. My issue is how will I die rather than the death itself.
 

stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
anesthesia, who was I that passed out? If the soul or spirit exist or thoughts or consciousness how is it aware of itself; and, why is it separate from the brain and body? Even more so, why does the body need to die for consciousness to have any significance but if we pass out, then we don't give it much thought.
Anesthesia/drugs leads to "unconscious"
Meditation/Grace leads to "Superconscious"
 

sealchan

Well-Known Member
I don't believe in any Gods, can I be sure, im right? Certainly not... Don't know if you have seen the Netflix series "Love, death + robots"? if not its a series of small animations telling some short stories. One of them is called Ice age, which the image below is from, where a couple find a world inside their freezer and can see how it develop from early man into basically the space age. How do we know that we don't live in such universe, but we are simply unable to observe it.

65e6bd2893.jpg


The fact is that we don't and most likely we will never find out as we can't travel back in time. :) But what we can do is try to look at what is most likely, based on what we can observe about the Universe in which we live. Ways we can try to judge whether we ought to believe one thing over another is to add things up and see how many things one ought to believe in to take a certain position.

So we could look at the something like us living in a simulated universe compared to a multiverse. Both offer no explanation to how everything got started, where does the multiverse come from or who made the simulation. So in that regard we can leave both as unknown. Then we can look at how the fine tuning of the Universe could explain why it is a simulation, but on the other hand we have no clue if these "values" could be any different, only that if they were, that things would go wrong. Also adding in the amount of energy to run basically an infinite amount of Universe simulations is very unlikely and also we would expect to observe bugs and shortcuts all over the place, which we don't. Just looking at a human, no programmer with a brain would design a "character" with such complexity that we observe, it would be a complete waste of time. :)

Obviously you can examine a lot more things about these ideas, but eventually you can add up all the things and at least to me, the simulation idea doesn't seem to cut it. And to me the best position to hold so far, is simply that we don't know. Obviously religion have their views as well, but again adding a God on top of it all and say he did it, is not going to solve anything, its basically just to push the question further out and just accept that God is outside time and space, without being able to proof it. Its no different than to just assume that the multiverse is possible, "because... it is" :) But the biggest difference is, that those that suggest the multiverse idea, does not impose certain rules on people, either you agree with them or you don't, either way no harm done to anyone. And also those that proprose a multiverse have no issue admitting that its just an idea and nothing else.

Reverse this and we can all see the joy and value of the human imagination...to take of our apparent reality and weave fascinating and creative fantasy that in some unprovable way could be reality.

Through this intentional self-deception we can open ourselves up to new possibilities in reality for how we understand the universe, each other and ourselves. Some of these fantasies may be of particular interest and value to a certain people at a certain time. And if religion was thought of more like the art that it is than the literal science it has too often tried to become, I think we would all be "in a better place".
 
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