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Church offers lower payouts to black abuse victims

NewGuyOnTheBlock

Cult Survivor/Fundamentalist Pentecostal Apostate
So you are essentially dismissing the victim's perception then?

Yes.
Perceptions are highly fallible.

I suffer from anxiety disorders and I get some really strange perceptions and draw some pretty bizarre conclusions at times, feeling and strongly believing that I am being railroaded, used, lied to, manipulated, taken advantage of, betrayed, set up, etc. etc. etc. based on my flawed perceptions. When the disorders run their course and sanity returns, I realize how ridiculously and laughably "off" my perceptions were.

Is there a racial issue in the United States? Probably. Well. Yes. So let's address it. Racial discrimination is stupid. But that doesn't make everything racially motivated.
 

Curious George

Veteran Member
These are valid questions. But a they are questions, there are no answers to them; or they wouldn't be questions anymore. So until we have answers to those questions, the answer "I don't know why other non-black victims paid much more, or why was these victims met in secret"; not inserting a convenient answer.

How legitimate were the claims? Why was it not reported to law enforcement? What evidence, besides the claims of abuse, were presented bu the accusers?

These are other questions I have.
One of the brothers abuse was reported to law enforcement. There is a police report but they cannot find any documentation of the subsequent investigation. The church admitted that it found the accusations "credible."

The "secret" meeting was to undoubtedly avoid publicity as was the illegal (non binding) NDA that they signed. The reason they were offered the amount that they were is because the church felt that it could get away with paying them that little. This amount was likely determined by claims adjusters who took into account, lack of representation, potential representation, lifestyle, criminal history, work history, community involvement, race, income level, and income potential prior to the abuse and future income earning potential (and other factors i have undoubtedly left out).
 

Curious George

Veteran Member
The victim believes that, yes.

I have yet to see any evidence that this belief is accurate.
The catholic church has a demonstrable history of racism.

Settlement offers in the United States have a demonstrable history of racism.

These cases present specific facts which demonstrate disparity and racial differences.

What is the evidence that race was not a motivating factor?
 

MikeDwight

Well-Known Member
I'll tell you, police can obviously trail you in 2009 with fake students and professors. They can pretend like they know anything when all I did was Actively promote every professional around engaged with themselves. I know no intent of any crime by myself at any time. I know no instigation possible to cite by students remaining on campus, neverk nowing or forcing a direction for anyone to go, being an open book. Having already offered parental contacts and compensation equal to any measure. They then tell me where the police think there are 'emotional threats'. Where my apologies could get me. I never had any reason to violate any wishes at any time. they'll pretend I Have any insight into electronic dictionary miscommunications on a particular day of 2 years. They made up any reason to remove Automatically perfect acceptance grades from college. They censored all my job applications, disappointed my family along with secretly communicating to everybody around some false information of any sort. They have physical commandeering of my time by the time of 2010 to deal with it online facebook with no possible gain to myself to be there so they can break people with how they freeze my prospects. They got any confession they need to 100 things. They waste your job experience with fake jobs your entire work experience. They disconnect you from any society experience. They're choosing out whatever fake problem you never had of any confessions they forced, equally of 10. The only thing you can do is get a defense attorney which is blocked in every version I can find anyway to deservedly get unmonitored, unblocked, uninvolved, and gain any of your own results in any field.
 

MikeDwight

Well-Known Member
Talk about church abuse victims. I'm at their Church in suit and tie, and the only representation is there 100,000 in debt in 20,000 increments at 5% right? Nobody's talking about payments. No long term repayment from fanciful social leaders is expected. The only refusal possible is of course to be further pinpricking everybody around to feel better or something. They shook hands in Church which is a gentleman's agreement in the entire western world, with a phone number, my name, parents name, physical address to check out. they asked 'why do I get a house', that's up to them right? The responsibility is in someone else's court to make any movement on the agreement to the outcome they originally used facebook , the only way to contact anybody after 10 other versions, which I neutrally mentioned they'd be able to pursue one, and they enthusiasticly agree with the pictures , with millisecond response times, with jovial agreement scenes. I don't care at all if they feel smart having then trapped people with that and agreements. Telling me to use facebook is to say everyone is totally false and harmful for a profession with pictures. Obviously.
If anybody else in the western world were greeted to some family fleeing scene, you're just inconspicuous business person in the corner parking lot, and a man recognizes your car in marches the entire parking lot in hatred, makes you roll down your window for a taekwondo demonstration on an unfair personal assault with instructions like how to not be directly contacting and to use facebook, that's not going to Produce an admissible court experience and outcome to anybody. That's a bunch of junk.
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
The catholic church has a demonstrable history of racism.
Settlement offers in the United States have a demonstrable history of racism.
These cases present specific facts which demonstrate disparity and racial differences.

What specific facts, other then the guy who accepted the settlement being black?

What is the evidence that race was not a motivating factor?

:rolleyes:

Ever heared of the phrase "innocent until proven guilty"? It's not "guilty until prove innocent".

Next to that attempt at shifting the burden of proof, you're also asking me to address a negative.
 

MikeDwight

Well-Known Member
Does anybody know their professors? I'm treated to an ignoramus experience 2009 even by people with some behind the scenes pre-knowledge. Connecting dots about her emails she turned over which already had very sane end goals and practical safe balanced outlooks, that used international business to not focus too harshly, they say. I'm treated to a harsh experience for 5 of those College people to suggest any instability at any time, and my inside information on anything at any time. Professors that don't even have a class with me.
How would you know anything about, the only student leadership offering everybody in class a studygroup that does extra credit. There just happens to be 10 people that say they do that and only 1 person that actually wants good grades with extra credit. What do I know about her besides her besides organizing managerial,financial accounting extra credit, more equal association through cost accounting, some other student taking over , she voluntarily leaves as far as I'm communicated to, during intermediate accounting study, has other classes. Her organizing me and everybody to care about Korean culture in a managerial project that got As again. Professor likes international culture in public schools best apparently, apparently when no other groups do any services. Then we got out of the way everything we did. We discussed Federal Acquisition Regulation tutoring, that other student she wants to spoil, with tutoring money, returned to her is a big problem, I'd guess, business contacts just start conversations with personal insults at her apartment. See that's actually others wanting to extricate that situation level, not the other way around.
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
It's a news article but the reality is we all aren't there so we can speculate, but I admit my own personal bias due to my own experiences dealing with discriminatory practices of like kind and so I'm therefore inclined to believe the victims.

Exactly. That's why I started by warning for the trap that you can't let your emotions get out of control. Because like I said, not every bad thing that happens to a black person is racially motivated.

That is not to say that there aren't racism problems in the world, and specifically in the US.
But I think that being carefull about when the race card is pulled, is kind of important. Especially in terms of "ouside perception by the public". By drawing that card improperly, you do a disservice to the actual cases of racially motivated unethical behavior. It gets lots of people into the mindset of "meh, you boys always pull the race card - whatever, it's very tiring".


Like in a "boy who cried wolf" scenario.

There's nothing wrong with being on the lookout for such cases so that when it actually happens, it can be dealt with. But I'ld be a little more carefull with throwins accusations around as if they are factual, when all you really have is opinion and suspicion.

Your OP, after all, doesn't ask the question if this is about race. It declares it, instead.

The difference in payout is already disgusting by itself. If race is a factor, it's double digusting for sure.
But at this point, that is still an if.
 

MikeDwight

Well-Known Member
Every race is going to chip at your status quo from different directions, there's no "Minority". That's so crazy hey. Official announcement, I got an announcement officially, to participants of the forum. Americans run over girls in Korea to force respect of their military occupation. Korean husbands decidedly don't have money for their wives so they got to steal their money through PO box shipping you got to help with. Not even a personal situation then, got it. Americans have generational wealth, Korean's don't.
If anybody looks into Presbyterian, we are now leaving the trail of clues on how None of our religion in the entire United States involves responsibility, responsible membership to an ethical international body, but disownership of Religions that represent the American people. There's some hidden enemy worse than secularism and laicite and socialism combined. Camoflauge American ideals.
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
Every race is going to chip at your status quo from different directions, there's no "Minority". That's so crazy hey. Official announcement, I got an announcement officially, to participants of the forum. Americans run over girls in Korea to force respect of their military occupation. Korean husbands decidedly don't have money for their wives so they got to steal their money through PO box shipping you got to help with. Not even a personal situation then, got it. Americans have generational wealth, Korean's don't.
If anybody looks into Presbyterian, we are now leaving the trail of clues on how None of our religion in the entire United States involves responsibility, responsible membership to an ethical international body, but disownership of Religions that represent the American people. There's some hidden enemy worse than secularism and laicite and socialism combined. Camoflauge American ideals.
What the heck are you babbling about
 

MikeDwight

Well-Known Member
What the heck are you babbling about
My first post on here was Sa-I-Gu. You just blame shop owners with any epitaph you want to give them? 100% blacks targeted 100% Koreans for deaths and huge damages that would rock the stability and confidence of that entire immigrant community, to a result of $300 to every Korean American, that'd be just from splitting the 1992 riot's property damages. I think their is a strong urge on all sides to subsume all Minority struggle with Martin Luther King Jr. That's insane, Martin Luther King Jr exists in a straight line, from Eisenhower having occupational design on Korea, Presbyterians are in Korea with the Provisional Government from 1900 Korea promotes to be respected, you can't respect other states? Eisenhower reorganized Presbyterians the same day he meets Matin Luther King Jr. and integration in Kansas. This whole series of events can be a disenfranchisement of Korean Americans, and Ahn Chang Ho the violent assassin of a tyrannical Japanese Governor over his Provisional government, Ahn Jung-geun. Ahn Chang Ho has a submemorial at the Martin Luther King Jr memorial for Civil Rights struggles? Those people's are switching citizenships. This could be a bunch of people's feet shuffling around here in America. I want to actually meet the freedom marchers and every single TV ad you've seen, for shoving, shuffling around, and marching.
 
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TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
My first post on here was Sa-I-Gu. You just blame shop owners with any epitaph you want to give them? 100% blacks targeted 100% Koreans for deaths and huge damages that would rock the stability and confidence of that entire immigrant community, to a result of $300 to every Korean American, that'd be just from splitting the 1992 riot's property damages. I think their is a strong urge on all sides to subsume all Minority struggle with Martin Luther King Jr. That's insane, Martin Luther King Jr exists in a straight line, from Eisenhower having occupational design on Korea, Presbyterians are in Korea with the Provisional Government from 1900 Korea promotes to be respected, you can't respect other states? Eisenhower reorganized Presbyterians the same day he meets Matin Luther King Jr. and integration in Kansas. This whole series of events can be a disenfranchisement of Korean Americans, and Ahn Chang Ho the violent assassin of a tyrannical Japanese Governor over his Provisional government, Ahn Jung-geun. Ahn Chang Ho has a submemorial at the Martin Luther King Jr memorial for Civil Rights struggles? Those people's are switching citizenships. This could be a bunch of people's feet shuffling around here in America. I want to actually meet the freedom marchers and every single TV ad you've seen, for shoving, shuffling around, and marching.

None of this is related to the topic of the thread.
 

A Vestigial Mote

Well-Known Member
Black Catholics don't exist just like the rest of the racist Churches with histories. .1% Presbyterian or 1% Catholic or .1% Lutheran? How'd I git in this buildin' somebody let me out o' here.
The Man (black) has been up to his tricks again on April 29th, 1992

Blacks see one black get roughed up a little , when he was fighting arrest and High I think, anybody look into Rodney King? He's dead now from drowning in his swimming pool? Thanks Oprah.
$300 million damages to only Korean businesses by only Black LA residents is $300 to every Korean American, 50 died it said. Terrorized people resorted to Korean Radio stations for news while the police ran for it. Who knows what blacks do to victims anyway? Nobody likes to speak up like the Comfort Women. Obviously, the most entitled racist in-group and dominant people in America.
If you find yourself not being replied to a lot, it's most definitely because no one can understand what you are saying. I read this post 4 times, and still don't understand any of the references made, how each sentence relates to any other, and in some cases don't even get the gist of even singular sentences. It's like stream-of-consciousness with some kind of bad drug-cocktail thrown into the mix.

Don't get me wrong here - I don't care, at all, what you are saying, but apparently you do. And if you do, then you should probably work on being more coherent with your writing.
 

Curious George

Veteran Member
What specific facts, other then the guy who accepted the settlement being black?
I gave you specific facts. A history of racial discrimination by the organization.
A history of racial discrimination within the specific type of litigation we are discussing. And the stark contrast between settlements between these individuals and similar victims who were white.

:rolleyes:

Ever heared of the phrase "innocent until proven guilty"? It's not "guilty until prove innocent".

Next to that attempt at shifting the burden of proof, you're also asking me to address a negative.
Yes i did shift the burden, but only after establishing both a history of racism and showing disparate outcomes on racial lines. That is enough evidence to shift the burden. Now you get to explain why race wasn't a motivating factor. If you were looking at this objectively you might say, "oh i could understand now why some might think there is racial motivation. The catholic church should be able to account for their decision and explain why race wasn't a motivating factor."
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
I gave you specific facts. A history of racial discrimination by the organization.
A history of racial discrimination within the specific type of litigation we are discussing. And the stark contrast between settlements between these individuals and similar victims who were white.


Yes i did shift the burden, but only after establishing both a history of racism and showing disparate outcomes on racial lines. That is enough evidence to shift the burden. Now you get to explain why race wasn't a motivating factor. If you were looking at this objectively you might say, "oh i could understand now why some might think there is racial motivation. The catholic church should be able to account for their decision and explain why race wasn't a motivating factor."
Disparate outcome can also be explained by
how different races bargain for compensation.
 

Curious George

Veteran Member
Disparate outcome can also be explained by
how different races bargain for compensation.
Yes it can. In fact the sample size is so small here it could be explained by a myriad factors. But when dealing with discrimination we need not prove discrimination fully as that creates an insurmountable barrier in many cases of actual discrimination. Instead we establish enough to shift the burden and then the other party gets to explain their systematic decisions and how those were not race related. Should be pretty simple if it did not involve race.

It is completely possible that race was not involved here. However, what I am witnessing is a rejection of the idea that race could be involved based on really no reasoning except "i don't see explicit racism."

When looking objectively we see there is good reason to question whether race was a motivating factor. The best i can assume is that people are reacting this way because a) dislike for the race baiting propaganda and b) biases of a single person claiming racism as seen in the quote.

I wonder how people would have responded if the man said, "well there has been a history of racial disparity in jury awards and settlement awards in these parts for black people; I had to wonder if my race played a part in the claim adjusters low offers; it certainly made me feel as though I had less of a chance to win a substantially higher amount and made the prospect of getting a lawyer and splitting any amount I did get a much riskier prospect. I would like to hear an accounting from the church on why my claim valued so low and see if race was indeed part of the reason."

It is strange that people are so resistant to the idea that race might have played a role.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
As long as I live I will always bring up the subject of race until America acknowledges that we still have a continuing problem regarding race relations. Now, the current video here focuses on a Catholic religious order in the state of Mississippi that settled with two survivors of sexual abuse paying them $15,000 each which is significantly lower than what other victims have been paid.

I respect your passion, yet I still perceive your willingness to point out that said differences continue to exist through the continuous identifying groups of people as deserving or needing special attention in kind.

I don't see how sexual abuse reparations will solve the racism issues that some feel are as rampant as they were in the past. I just get the impression that people are trying to connect some extra dots here.

I think it just serves to temper things further making the issues harder to resolve. Racism exists don't get me wrong, but I don't think its as rampant and some people make it out to be.

How does one know that the lower Court awards from the church are racist in nature? I mean there has to be other victims paid the same amount who are white I would think.
 

NewGuyOnTheBlock

Cult Survivor/Fundamentalist Pentecostal Apostate
I seem to remember in the original links regarding this that some of the "larger settlements" listed went to blacks. This was kind of glossed over. Did this particular doicese give larger payouts? THIS one ... Not one halfway around the country. And to those who may have had higher payouts; were attorneys involved? Also, the "higher payouts" I read about according to the information were largely awards through a court; not settlements. There is a lot of shell shuffling going on in this discussion, it seems.

You know, and right now, I'll admit, I'm starting to get a little angry. I think what really needs to be discussed is ending childhood sexual abuse, for all children, of all races. The discussion needs to be focused on what the Catholic church is doing right or wrong in preventing childhood sexual abuse on the part of its clergy.

But instead we're going to make a racial thing out of payouts.

Okay. I'm starting to get a little angry.

The focus is wrong and the priorities are all screwed up here.

That's my opinion.
 

MikeDwight

Well-Known Member
If you find yourself not being replied to a lot, it's most definitely because no one can understand what you are saying. I read this post 4 times, and still don't understand any of the references made, how each sentence relates to any other, and in some cases don't even get the gist of even singular sentences. It's like stream-of-consciousness with some kind of bad drug-cocktail thrown into the mix.

Don't get me wrong here - I don't care, at all, what you are saying, but apparently you do. And if you do, then you should probably work on being more coherent with your writing.
Those two problems " I don' care" and "no one can understand what you are saying" are the two exact same things. Do you even remember being in school whatsoever? Did anyone try to put a simple grammar rule in your head ever, or worship a flag? I've got my Bachelor's and over 8 years of college and I get kicked out of some infuriating number of internet forums for the "grammar rules" essentially.
I've been in every Church self-census there is. The congregants identifying from any Church from mainland Europe or notable from Mainland Europe, or , really, any respect for anything that is Christian, is no more than 1%. They, African Americans, are a "problem" then, in terms of everyone relating to Christians. I stop short of anything stupid or racist. Members in a group are proving to be actively working against the identity of a Christian body.
I can very Closely relate in my absolutely sober state at that time and this time a very close link to this topic. The assumption of this thread is a racial discrimination of a European Church that African Americans honestly, generally, aren't a part of anyway. African Americans finding any irritating minority Group in their neighborhoods are murderers, burglars, vengeance takers. If they were 'a convenient excuse group' during the Rodney King trial , then, OK good, if they got the Chance to get at all of us they would.
 
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