Morality Without The Bible and Homosexuality

sojourner · Aug 27, 2019

firedragon said:
Very good. Arsen=men. Koitus=Covet or bed. The English word coitus is derived from that. Paul invented this word. Yes it wasn't used earlier. It was Paul. But its in the Bible. Just saying prevailing scholarship appears to be is a vague response. And all your examples of other languages translating it as unnatural people, sodomites, those who sin unnaturally, etc etc does make your case that its about "forced sex with men" or "rape".

You still did not tell me scholars of the greek language who translated it as "forced sex with men". Who are the scholars who translated it that way?

I'm not aware that I said they translated it that way. I think they imply that by the various ways they did translate the term. They would be the ones who translated the Greek into the other languages I listed. No translators appear to agree. I don't know names, because I'm not in the world of translating Greek into Swedish or French. But whoever they are, they don't appear to agree on a translation.

NewGuyOnTheBlock · Aug 27, 2019

Ponder This said:
If it is a False Equivalence, please state the characteristic that killing and homosexuality share.

I'm not engaging in a debate or battle over definitions and semantics You equated homosexual intimacy to murder. You call that comparison by whatever term fits your fancy. At the end of the day, the two are far from equal. You're throwing a banana into a basket of beans and calling it a vegetable. Get it? Its simple.

leov said:
Those who introduced HIV , for example, they will never solve the problem, rather opposite, it will become big burden...

Gays didn't introduce HIV Monkey hunters did.

leov said:
It was lab created thing, it still is. I am done with entertaining here.

It was not created in a lab. Human HIV has its roots in monkey hunters coming in contact with blood infected with the necessary virus. No lab. No conspiracy. Just a cruel joke of nature.

Ponder This · Aug 28, 2019

NewGuyOnTheBlock said:
I'm not engaging in a debate or battle over definitions and semantics You equated homosexual intimacy to murder. You call that comparison by whatever term fits your fancy. At the end of the day, the two are far from equal. You're throwing a banana into a basket of beans and calling it a vegetable. Get it? Its simple.

Then maybe in the future you should have greater care with throwing around highfalutin terms like False Equivocation and False Equivalence when you don't appear to have a clue what those terms actually mean or how to actually apply them. At the end of the day, you have nothing. There is no there there. Even sans any special terms, I'm not even sure what your point is in accusing someone of equating homosexuality and killing in a thread where you invite people to show that they are similar... :shrug:

Oh wait that's right, you equated intimacy and murder... got it. Enjoy your thread.

NewGuyOnTheBlock · Aug 28, 2019

Ponder This said:
Then maybe in the future you should have greater care with throwing around highfalutin terms like False Equivocation and False Equivalence when you don't appear to have a clue what those terms actually mean or how to actually apply them. At the end of the day, you have nothing. There is no there there. Even sans any special terms, I'm not even sure what your point is in accusing someone of equating homosexuality and killing in a thread where you invite people to show that they are similar... Oh wait that's right, you equated intimacy and murder... got it. Enjoy your thread.

You made the equivalence and failed to demonstrate how they are equal. Moreover, I am not the only one who found equating these to be logically fallacious. In other words, wrong and dishonest. Rather than defending your claim, you get all trumped up on semantics and claim victory over a debate regarding the meanings of terms; which completely distracts from showing your claim that homosexual intimacy and killing are equal. I think that is quite intentional, because you can neither provide a solid argument to hold them equal, and you can not admit you were wrong. (btw, on that latter ... I did).

So now that we are through quibbling over terms, please explain to me:

How is homosexual intimacy equal to killing?

BilliardsBall · Aug 28, 2019

Phaedrus said:
I think religion is harmful, which is why I advocate for it's eradication from society.

You're entitled to do so, perhaps a move to a totalitarian atheist state will help you achieve your aims and also enjoy the freedoms the atheist state generously imparts to its citizens.

BilliardsBall · Aug 28, 2019

columbus said:
But you don't say why.
I can confidently argue that, all things equal, homosex is less harmful than heterosex. Mainly because it will not result in new humans that will either be raised in bad conditions or just aborted.
Then there are the advantages of reducing the population, small as the effect might be.
Tom

There are deeper issues if you are down like that on babies and new life. Why so sad about people giving birth to new wondrous creations?

columbus · Aug 28, 2019

BilliardsBall said:
There are deeper issues if you are down like that on babies and new life. Why so sad about people giving birth to new wondrous creations?

I'm not down on anything but irresponsible procreation. Making new people, then aborting them. Or raising them under horrible conditions. Or contributing to overpopulation because the parents are too irresponsible to use effective birth control.
I don't understand why you find that difficult to grasp. I suspect that it's because you think I'm wrong, but can't say why.

That also explains why you dodged my actual question.
You said that you believe same sex marriage is harmful. But you didn't say why, or what harm is caused. So I'll ask again. Why?
Tom

columbus · Aug 28, 2019

BilliardsBall said:
You're entitled to do so, perhaps a move to a totalitarian atheist state will help you achieve your aims and also enjoy the freedoms the atheist state generously imparts to its citizens.

Maybe you should move the one of the theocratic autocracies out there.
Tom

BilliardsBall · Aug 29, 2019

columbus said:
Maybe you should move the one of the theocratic autocracies out there.
Tom

Will do! Which one is run by born again Christians and obey born again doctrines?

BilliardsBall · Aug 29, 2019

columbus said:
I'm not down on anything but irresponsible procreation. Making new people, then aborting them. Or raising them under horrible conditions. Or contributing to overpopulation because the parents are too irresponsible to use effective birth control.
I don't understand why you find that difficult to grasp. I suspect that it's because you think I'm wrong, but can't say why.

That also explains why you dodged my actual question.
You said that you believe same sex marriage is harmful. But you didn't say why, or what harm is caused. So I'll ask again. Why?
Tom

One thing is that homosexuals are broken people who need healing, not mutual dependence. Another is they might desire natural children but cannot have them.

columbus · Aug 29, 2019

BilliardsBall said:
Will do! Which one is run by born again Christians and obey born again doctrines?

I don't think that born again Christian people are capable of operating a nation. At least, they haven't managed to do so.

Choose to become a Muslim, then there are lots of choices. You do have free will, right? You can choose to believe in the God who runs countries like Pakistan and Saudi Arabia, right?
Tom

columbus · Aug 29, 2019

BilliardsBall said:
One thing is that homosexuals are broken people who need healing, not mutual dependence.

Why do you think that God made a mistake when He made me?
I see my sexual orientation as a character building device.

BilliardsBall said:
Another is they might desire natural children but cannot have them.

What makes you think we cannot have children?
I had one.
My partner had 4 who survived to procreate.
You clearly have no idea what you're talking about.
Tom

sojourner · Aug 29, 2019

BilliardsBall said:
One thing is that homosexuals are broken people who need healing, not mutual dependence. Another is they might desire natural children but cannot have them.

Wait... what proof do you have that they're "broken?" What proof do you have that we're not ALL "broken" in some way? This is an opinion from entitlement that you just can't defend.

SkepticThinker · Aug 29, 2019

BilliardsBall said:
One thing is that homosexuals are broken people who need healing, not mutual dependence. Another is they might desire natural children but cannot have them.

What makes you think such a terrible thing about a group of human beings, based solely on their sexual orientation??

Phaedrus · Aug 29, 2019

SkepticThinker said:
What makes you think such a terrible thing about a group of human beings, based solely on their sexual orientation??

I refer to it as the Pauline Complex.

Saint Frankenstein · Aug 29, 2019

BilliardsBall said:
One thing is that homosexuals are broken people who need healing, not mutual dependence. Another is they might desire natural children but cannot have them.

What an awful thing to say about people. I'm bisexual and I very much enjoy my sexuality. I'm proud of my homosexual side. Nothing "broken" about it. I'm as nature made me. If anyone has a problem with it, they can buzz off.

SkepticThinker · Aug 30, 2019

columbus said:
Why do you think that God made a mistake when He made me?
I see my sexual orientation as a character building device.

What makes you think we cannot have children?
I had one.
My partner had 4 who survived to procreate.
You clearly have no idea what you're talking about.
Tom

My cousin has a daughter that she gave birth to herself and everything! Amazing!

BilliardsBall · Aug 30, 2019

columbus said:
Why do you think that God made a mistake when He made me?
I see my sexual orientation as a character building device.

What makes you think we cannot have children?
I had one.
My partner had 4 who survived to procreate.
You clearly have no idea what you're talking about.
Tom

Two gay partners can both contribute to a biological child?

All sexual orientations are character-building, including asexual orientation. Prison is also character building, but not "good".

The question I asked myself this morning, "Why has homosexuality become okay now, after millennia?" Your thoughts?

Phaedrus · Aug 30, 2019

BilliardsBall said:
The question I asked myself this morning, "Why has homosexuality become okay now, after millennia?" Your thoughts?

Besides there never being anything wrong with homosexuality, except to people irrationally opposed to it, it was okay in ancient Greece.

BilliardsBall · Aug 30, 2019

SkepticThinker said:
What makes you think such a terrible thing about a group of human beings, based solely on their sexual orientation??

My anecdotal, clinical and counseling experience. Just recently, a friend asked a mutual friend if he'd ever be happy and the reply was unprintable here. He's also not happy!

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