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Why did the Jews reject their Messiah when he DID come?

blü 2

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Did they not recognize Him as earlier prophesied in the OT?

Christians consider Him as Lord, Jesus Christ.

Maybe the Jews will finally get it on His second coming?
He wasn't anointed.

He wasn't a war leader ─ in fact he rendered unto Caesar.

He wasn't a religious official.

One of him (Mark's) wasn't of the line of David, two of them (Matthew's, Luke's) were said to be but couldn't have been, Paul's is said to be but no parents are identified, and John's is silent on the point.

He disrupted lawful trading at the Temple, very disrespectfully.

And no one in history ever noticed him, ever wrote a word about him, in his lifetime.

So what should have tipped the Jewish authorities off that this particular player in the busy Jerusalem religion industry was the messiah?
 

wizanda

One Accepts All Religious Texts
Premium Member
Rather presumptuous to claim to know better than the Jews who their Messiah should be.
It isn't presumptuous, if we read all of the Bible it explains the Jews will reject the text, and be blinded to accepting it (Zechariah 12:4, Deuteronomy 28:28-29).
Maybe the Jews will finally get it on His second coming?
This is debatable, currently I'm sitting here with the new name of Christ for 15 years explaining to people before Armageddon...

So far they've not taken any of the Bible seriously, and generally start mocking parts as prophesied... Yet so do the Christians, Muhammadans, Hindus, etc.
Jesus said He was the Messiah to the woman and what more is there to believe?
The Gospel of John is made up.

Yeshua actually said to his disciples, "not to tell anyone he was the Christ" (Matthew 16:20), as it was not his time back then...
JESUS comes from Hebrew, God is salvation.
Yehoshua (H3091) means the Lord (H3050) Saves (H3467).
I think @RabbiO has made all the comments this thread/OP needs from Jewish people.
Revelation 3:9-12 says many are not even Jews, they're Pharisees who have been mislead by their leaders into going opposite to the Messiah. :(
Jews, then and now, reject him because he wasn't the Messiah. He never fulfilled Jewish messianic prophecy:
Yeshua didn't claim to be the Messiah back then, as it isn't the Messianic Age yet...
Messiah was to be "long in days", i.e., mature if not old
This doesn't happen until the Messianic Age, where the dead have been resurrected, and there is no longer death.
Messiah was to build a third temple
The Third Temple is built without human hands, and shall be an infinite dwelling place of God here on earth.
Messiah was to throw out Gentile oppressors
The Gentiles (those unlettered in the Law of God) are all removed at Judgement Day.
Messiah was to bring all nations to worship in the restored temple
This happens after Armageddon, and the cleansing of mankind, else there is still corruption, and the Messiah hasn't fulfilled the original promise to remove the fake theology from the land.
He didn't free the Jews from the Romans.
Daniel for example says the Metal Empire remains until the theocracy is established by God's Messiah at the end, Yeshua came to cut off the covenants as prophesied.
He mocked the Pharisees and the Scribes.
Prophecy in Zechariah 11:3-9, Jeremiah 25:34-38 is that he will challenge the false leaders of our people, and then 'our people are destroyed because of lack of knowledge', where the Curse of Moses (Deuteronomy 28) is placed onto our people for their rejection.
It refused to listen to many of its prophets which demanded justice and mercy rather than sacrifice.
Thank you for posting this aspect, as Yeshua cut off Judah for this point, as they'd turned the death of the prophets into atoning sacrifices by their oral traditions (Matthew 23:27-38, Mark 7:1-13)...

Christians being created by the Pharisees (John, Paul, and Simon the stone (petros)), follow the same thing he challenged.
Means the same thing as Immanuel, 'God with us'.
There are a few different Hebrew words, lets look at Strongs:
  • Yehoshua (H3091) means the Lord (H3050) Saves (H3467).
  • Yeshua (H3444) means salvation.
  • Immanuel (H6005) means God (H410) is with us or in us (H5973); like the word Genius means 'God in Us'.
  • j+sus (H5580) shall + Grub or Beast.
In my opinion. :innocent:
 
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Spartan

Well-Known Member
Why Israel Missed its Messiah

"Summary / Conclusion:

So there we have it: First century Messianic expectations, along with the time-sensitive prophecies from Genesis chapter 49 and Daniel chapter 9 – all indicating that the Messiah would appear in the first century. And the only logical candidate that fulfills those prophecies and expectations, the one who fulfilled numerous Messianic prophecies during his first advent (and who is expected to fulfill the remainder at his second advent); the one who is the image of Isaiah chapter 53 as Messiah ben Joseph (the “Suffering Servant”), and the one which is written about by predominately Jewish believers in the New Testament – is Jesus Christ."

"And now we have compelling arguments as to why Israel did not and has not recognized their beloved Messiah:

1. They were expecting Messiah ben David (the ‘Conquering King’) to appear, and Messiah ben Joseph (the ‘Suffering Servant’ – Jesus Christ) appeared first instead.
2. Most of them missed the times foretold about when the Messiah was to appear – in the first century A.D. And,
3. Almost no one prior to the first century expected two faces and two advents of the Messiah. But the first advent is documented in Jesus Christ, and the second is expected as surely as the first."

Why Israel Missed its Messiah

In addition, there's this comprehensive five-volume work by the world's foremost Messianic scholar, Dr. Michael L. Brown

Answering Jewish Objections to Jesus - Complete 5 Volume Set
 

Spartan

Well-Known Member
From the link below:

From my studies over the decades, there are only two places I know of in the Old Testament that predict / prophesy when the Messiah will appear in history.
The first of these is written by Chuck Missler (From his Book “The Creator Beyond Time and Space”), and is titled:

Until Shiloh Comes

The prophecy, generally stated, is this, from Genesis chapter 49:

“The scepter shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh comes; and to him shall be the obedience of the people.” Genesis 49:10 (NKJ)

This strange prophecy has a few words that need to be defined in order to be fully understood. The word “scepter” has been understood by the Rabbis to mean the “tribal staff” or “tribal identity” of the twelve tribes of Israel. This “tribal identity” was linked, in the minds of the Jews, to their right to apply and enforce Mosaic law upon the people, including the right to adjudicate capital cases and administer capital punishment, or jus gladii (The jus gladii is a legal term which refers to the legal authority to adjudicate capital cases and impose capital punishment.)

Secondly, it is well documented that the word “Shiloh” has been understood for millennia to be an idiom for the Messiah. Therefore, according to this prophecy, the tribal identity or scepter of the tribe of Judah would not cease until the Messiah came. The article goes on to conclude that the time called for the Messiah to appear is the first century – when Jesus did appear.

The second place in scripture that indicates when the Messiah would appear is Daniel chapter 9, verses 24-27. And again, the time it indicates for the appearance of the Messiah is the first century – in 32 AD. Exactly when Jesus rode into Jerusalem as the Jewish Messiah. Here is the background on that prophecy:

DANIEL'S 70 WEEKS PROPHECY

Both examples above are considered Messianic by various Jewish rabbis. Concerning Daniel chapter 9, we see the following quotes by ancient Jewish rabbis:

In the Babylonian Talmud, complied between 200 – 500 A.D., Rabbi Judah (the main compiler of the Talmud), said concerning Daniel’s prophecy:

“These times were over long ago.” – Babylonian Talmud Sanhedrin 98b and 97a

In the 12th Century A.D., Rabbi Moses Ben Maimon (Maimonides), one of the most respected rabbis in history, said:

“Daniel has elucidated to us the knowledge of the end times. However, since they are secret, the wise (rabbis) have barred the calculations of the days of Messiah’s coming so that the untutored populace will not be led astray when they see that end times have already come but there is no sign of the Messiah.”

In addition, Rabbi Moses Abraham Levi noted regarding the time of the Messiah’s coming:

“I have examined and searched all the Holy Scriptures and have not found the time for the coming of Messiah clearly fixed, except in the words of Gabriel to the prophet Daniel, which are written in the 9th chapter of the prophecy of Daniel.”

And, in the Targum of the Prophets, in the Tractate Megillah 3a, the Rabbi Jonathan ben Uzziel noted, concerning Daniel’s prophecy:

“The date of the Messiah was foretold in it.”

Why Israel Missed its Messiah
 

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
It isn't presumptuous, if we read all of the Bible it explains the Jews will reject the text, and be blinded to accepting it (Zechariah 12:4, Deuteronomy 28:28-29).

This is debatable, currently I'm sitting here with the new name of Christ for 15 years explaining to people before Armageddon...

So far they've not taken any of the Bible seriously, and generally start mocking parts as prophesied... Yet so do the Christians, Muhammadans, Hindus, etc.

The Gospel of John is made up.

Yeshua actually said to his disciples, "not to tell anyone he was the Christ" (Matthew 16:20), as it was not his time back then...

Yehoshua (H3091) means the Lord (H3050) Saves (H3467).

Revelation 9-12 says many are not even Jews, they're Pharisees who have been mislead by their leaders into going opposite to the Messiah. :(

Yeshua didn't claim to be the Messiah back then, as it isn't the Messianic Age yet...

This doesn't happen until the Messianic Age, where the dead have been resurrected, and there is no longer death.

The Third Temple is built without human hands, and shall be an infinite dwelling place of God here on earth.

The Gentiles (those unlettered in the Law of God) are all removed at Judgement Day.

This happens after Armageddon, and the cleansing of mankind, else there is still corruption, and the Messiah hasn't fulfilled the original promise to remove the fake theology from the land.

Daniel for example says the Metal Empire remains until the theocracy is established by God's Messiah at the end, Yeshua came to cut off the covenants as prophesied.

Prophecy in Zechariah 11:3-9, Jeremiah 25:34-38 is that he will challenge the false leaders of our people, and then 'our people are destroyed because of lack of knowledge', where the Curse of Moses (Deuteronomy 28) is placed onto our people for their rejection.

Thank you for posting this aspect, as Yeshua cut off Judah for this point, as they'd turned the death of the prophets into atoning sacrifices by their oral traditions (Matthew 23:27-38, Mark 7:1-13)...

Christians being created by the Pharisees (John, Paul, and Simon the stone (petros)), follow the same thing he challenged.

There are a few different Hebrew words, lets look at Strongs:
  • Yehoshua (H3091) means the Lord (H3050) Saves (H3467).
  • Yeshua (H3444) means salvation.
  • Immanuel (H6005) means God (H410) is with us or in us (H5973); like the word Genius means 'God in Us'.
  • j+sus (H5580) shall + Grub or Beast.
In my opinion. :innocent:
That's 'psuedo christos', what are you talking about
 

wizanda

One Accepts All Religious Texts
Premium Member
Virtually all the so-called prophecies that Christians say point to Jesus aren't actually messianic prophecies at all.
So a dumb person says the moon is made out of cheese, and then we get a cheese grater to test it, and then call them naive?

Any Gospel writers are not actually the words and teachings of Yeshua; his actions, his statements is how we judge a man, not what people say about them, try following the Law in an assessment.
For Jews, the messianic prophecies are an all or nothing deal.
Yes it is an all or nothing, try reading Deuteronomy 29:19-27...

Those who reject that Yeshua placed the Curse of Moses on our people, and claim they have peace are all removed into the Lake of Fire...

So it isn't optional, we get one chance at this, and if not we get deleted from reality.

Realize the leaders have lied to you all, and told you somehow mankind is going to fix its self, and we're all going to live happily ever after; yet first Armageddon, then Judgement Day, and then the Messianic Age (that same narrative is also correlated by religions globally).

In my opinion.
:innocent:
 

wizanda

One Accepts All Religious Texts
Premium Member
That's 'psuedo christos', what are you talking about
Pseudochristos is G5580, sus a Grub or Beast is H5580, and is removed at Judgement Day in Isaiah 51:8.

If we add a yod to the start of a word in Hebrew, it can mean "shall be a beast"...

So when in Revelation it says the world follows the beast, this is the name jesus vs his real name Yehoshua which is a symbolic branch of David.

We've all been lied to, the whole world has been deceived by the anti-christ's teachings, we just don't get at what level... The name has been turned into an insult.

In my opinion. :innocent:
 

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
There are a few different Hebrew words, lets look at Strongs:
  • Yehoshua (H3091) means the Lord (H3050) Saves (H3467).
  • Yeshua (H3444) means salvation.
  • Immanuel (H6005) means God (H410) is with us or in us (H5973); like the word Genius means 'God in Us'.
  • j+sus (H5580) shall + Grub or Beast.
In my opinion. :innocent:
That theory that was pesented, isn't saying that Yeshuas name is 'Yeshua', 'salvation'

That theory is saying that Jesus's name is Yehoshua, [Joshua, which doesn't mean the same thing as 'salvation', does it?

They didn't derive their theory from Yeshua, the name, they derive that by theorizing that 'Yeshu', is a shortened form of Joshua, hence Yehoshua.
 

wizanda

One Accepts All Religious Texts
Premium Member
From my studies over the decades, there are only two places I know of in the Old Testament that predict / prophesy when the Messiah will appear in history.
Those points exist, yet there are far clearer, and due to bad translations it gets overlooked, and thus could be fixed globally:

Psalms 89:19-21 appoints that God will choose out of the Tribe of Israel, David to be his holy 'Anointed' vessel...

Then in Isaiah 52:13-14 it paraphrases this sentence (multiple matching words), and the word Marred is meant to say 'Anointed':

Psalms 89:19-21 Then you spoke in vision to your saints, and said, “I have given strength to the warrior. I have exalted a young man from the people. (20) I have found David, my servant. I have anointed him with my holy oil, (21) with whom my hand shall be established. My arm will also strengthen him.

Isaiah 52:13-14 Behold, my servant will deal wisely. He will be exalted and lifted up, and will be very high. Just as many were astonished by him, for I anointed him more than others appearance, and his form more than a son of man.


Thus Yehoshua is a symbolic naming of the Branch of David...

God spoke from Heaven when John the Baptist baptised Yeshua, and said, "my beloved" which is David in Hebrew.

Thus we have two points saying the anointed one is going to be taken from this world (Daniel 9:26, Isaiah 53); in Zechariah 11 it explains that the Sanhedrin would do so, causing the Curse of Moses (Deuteronomy 28) to be placed on our people.

In my opinion.
:innocent:
 

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
Note that I am specifically saying that 'Yeshua', not a direct name correlate, here, [Immanuel, is acceptable, because of various reasons.



Anyways.
 
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wizanda

One Accepts All Religious Texts
Premium Member
That theory is saying that Jesus's name is Yehoshua, [Joshua, which doesn't mean the same thing as 'salvation', does it?
Yehoshua and Yeshua don't mean the same thing, one is a name, the other is a verb... Yet they have similar implied meanings as Ancient Hebrew was a pictographic writing system similar to Hieroglyphics...

Hosea son of Nun had his name changed into Yehoshua...

Hosea means deliver or savoir, adding a yod at the beginning makes two things happen:
  1. It becomes he 'shall be a saviour'.

    Which is where in the New Testament it is stated, "he shall be called Yehoshua, for he shall save his people".

  2. We then have the Lord + Saves - which is the same as saying Salvation (H3444 - Yeshua) comes from God.
Therefore ultimately what they were saying that God saves is right, yet the language actually states the Lord Saves... God Saves would be EL+Yesha.

In my opinion. :innocent:
 

wizanda

One Accepts All Religious Texts
Premium Member
Immanuel, is acceptable, because of various reasons.
Immanu+ El means a Genius, God + in us...

It wasn't a name; none of Isaiah's metaphoric children are (names don't have multiple separate words within them):
  1. Shear + Jashub - 'a remanent will return'.
  2. Immanu + El - 'genius'.
  3. 'Maher + Shalal + Hash + Baz - 'those quick to the spoils, who hasten to the prey'.
In my opinion. :innocent:
 

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
Yehoshua and Yeshua don't mean the same thing, one is a name, the other is a verb... Yet they have similar implied meanings as Ancient Hebrew was a pictographic writing system similar to Hieroglyphics...

Hosea son of Nun had his name changed into Yehoshua...

Hosea means deliver or savoir, adding a yod at the beginning makes two things happen:
  1. It becomes he 'shall be a saviour'.

    Which is where in the New Testament it is stated, "he shall be called Yehoshua, for he shall save his people".

  2. We then have the Lord + Saves - which is the same as saying Salvation (H3444 - Yeshua) comes from God.
Therefore ultimately what they were saying that God saves is right, yet the language actually states the Lord Saves... God Saves would be EL+Yesha.

In my opinion. :innocent:
Yes that's fine. [Yeshua is fine, not Yehoshua, though
 
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shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
Did they not recognize Him as earlier prophesied in the OT?

Christians consider Him as Lord, Jesus Christ.

Maybe the Jews will finally get it on His second coming?

Simply they believe He did not come.

Human nature as far as every other religion is rejected, by every other religion. Christians likewise reject other religions that fulfill their prophecies, In the history of Christianity most people who converted did not have significant knowledge of the Torah and Tanakh nor Hebrew. Also, the fulfillment of prophesy is somewhat subjective and anecdotal.

There remains a human paradox that by far most believe that their religions is the only religion, Christians and Jews included.
 
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shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
Immanu+ El means a Genius, God + in us...

It wasn't a name; none of Isaiah's metaphoric children are (names don't have multiple separate words within them):
  1. Shear + Jashub - 'a remanent will return'.
  2. Immanu + El - 'genius'.
  3. 'Maher + Shalal + Hash + Baz - 'those quick to the spoils, who hasten to the prey'.
In my opinion. :innocent:

. . . and as far as most Jews would be concerned it would be your opinion.
 

JJ50

Well-Known Member
Jesus wasn't recognised as a messiah by most of the Jews because he was a mere human like everyone else with many faults and failings.
 

SA Huguenot

Well-Known Member
Jesus wasn't recognised as a messiah by most of the Jews because he was a mere human like everyone else with many faults and failings.
Jesus was recognised by mostly Jews and became christiand because they knew the OT well.
Paul and
Ppeter and the other apostles visited all the synagogues in Acia minor, Rome and palestine and these people, Jews, saw that what they preached was true.
It was only 150 years after Jesus that the Jewish teachers denied the divinity of Jesus
 

SA Huguenot

Well-Known Member
Simply they believe He did not come.

Human nature as far as every other religion is rejected, by every other religion. Christians likewise reject other religions that fulfill their prophecies, In the history of Christianity most people who converted did not have significant knowledge of the Torah and Tanakh nor Hebrew. Also, the fulfillment of prophesy is somewhat subjective and anecdotal.

There remains a human paradox that by far most believe that their religions is the only religion, Christians and Jews included.
Thats why it is important for you to remember that the first Christians were all Jews.
They had significant knowledge of the Tanakh.
Dont change history for your religion's bennefit.
 

Tumah

Veteran Member
Yehoshua and Yeshua don't mean the same thing, one is a name, the other is a verb...

Hosea means deliver or savoir, adding a yod at the beginning makes two things happen:
  1. It becomes he 'shall be a saviour'.


  2. We then have the Lord + Saves - which is the same as saying Salvation (H3444 - Yeshua) comes from God.
So, since Yeshua is not a verb, but Yehoshua according to your first interpretation is a noun, where's the verb?

Therefore ultimately what they were saying that God saves is right, yet the language actually states the Lord Saves... God Saves would be EL+Yesha.

In my opinion. :innocent:
It sure is your opinion. The way to say "G-d saves" would be "E-l + Moshia". Yesha is a noun meaning "salvation".
 
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