That is assumption, not evidence.
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
The 'great nothing', vs heaven or hell: which is better?
- Thread starter Desert Snake
- Start date
That is assumption, not evidence.
Desert Snake
Veteran Member
Those are examples, you can present whatever, those are just general guidelines, for the idea.
I surely will.
Come back and tell someone about it
But what's the idea, a general discussion or religious views on the afterlife?
A Vestigial Mote
Well-Known Member
I don't care that The Bible, written by other men who feared their demise, says that a "soul" exists beyond our death. I do not care one bit. Demonstrate the truth of this claim, and then I will be interested. Until then it is nothing more than a guess, a hopeful fantasy or an alluring fiction.Sheesh, I meant that you atheists seem to think that your physical life on this earth will never come to an end, so you act as if you will never die.
It's not the universe has some plan to preserve us on into eternity. It is God that has the plan to preserve us into eternity because that is why we were created, to attain the presence of God.
“And now concerning thy question regarding the soul of man and its survival after death. Know thou of a truth that the soul, after its separation from the body, will continue to progress until it attaineth the presence of God, in a state and condition which neither the revolution of ages and centuries, nor the changes and chances of this world, can alter. It will endure as long as the Kingdom of God, His sovereignty, His dominion and power will endure. It will manifest the signs of God and His attributes, and will reveal His loving kindness and bounty.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 155-156
And I know you meant you thought we atheists think our physical lives will never end, or "act as if" we believe that... but again, this is so untrue and ironic. Most, not all perhaps, but I would say most atheists don't believe in an afterlife, but very obviously accept that we will die. And do you know why? Because the stark, undeniable EVIDENCE of death happens all around us, all the time. Where on Earth did you get the idea that atheists think they won't die? And do you fell that atheists "live as if" they won't die simply because they don't believe in god? Are you one of those types who think that all atheists are running around sinning and engaging in "Earthly pleasures", and deny god mostly so they can continue doing so relatively guilt free? If you are, then shame on you. If you are, then in that respect you have the intellect of a child, no matter how old you are.
Phaedrus
Active Member
The theistic perspective is filling in the gaps with philosophical woo. It is basically just believing for the sake of comfort.
The atheistic perspective is waiting for a real answer that is not philosophical woo. It is a preference of a harsh truth over the comfortable theistic lie.
The atheistic perspective is waiting for a real answer that is not philosophical woo. It is a preference of a harsh truth over the comfortable theistic lie.
I assume that the above do not exhaust all possibilities.
As per Vedanta, the truth called brahman is Existence, Intelligence, Infinity. It is the non dual Self, although it appears as divided in many selves and non selves. The duality of space-time-objects appear and disappear within this consciousness.
Vedantic darsana (view) teaches two possibilities: a) Be the perfect non dual brahman or b) Rejoice in some heaven with God. The former attainment is the ultimate freedom. It certainly is annihilation of the wrong notion of one being limited individual soul. Brahman, however, is ALL -- so there is no anhillation of any thing that is true. The notion of annihilation is a wrong notion.
The latter attainment inevitably leads to movement of soul to lower planes again and again and is considered a lower attainment.
...
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
What I meant is there will be evidence for you that there is an afterlife if you die and realize you are not dead. You will see your dead body laying there and realize that it is dead. You will realize that you have a new body of some kind, but it won't be physical. Then you will know that you have gone on to another life.
“You see, I was so little 'dead' that I imagined I was still physically alive. Think of it a moment before we pass on. I had been struck by a shell splinter. There was no pain. The life was knocked out of my body; again, I say, there was no pain. Then I found that the whole of myself--all, that is, that thinks and sees and feels and knows--was still alive and conscious! I had begun a new chapter of life. I will tell you what I felt like. It was as if I had been running hard until, hot and breathless, I had thrown my overcoat away. The coat was my body, and if I had not thrown it away I should have suffocated. I cannot describe the experience in a better way; there is nothing else to describe.” Private Dowding, p. 16
“How does it feel to be 'dead'? One can't explain, because there's nothing in it! I simply felt free and light. My being seemed to have expanded. These are mere words. I can only tell you just this: that death is nothing unseemly or shocking. So simple is the 'passing along' experience that it beggars description. Others may have other experiences to relate of a more complex nature. I don't know...
When I lived in a physical body I never thought much about it. My health was fair. I knew very little about physiology. Now that I am living under other conditions I remain incurious as to that through which I express myself. By this I mean that I am still evidently in a body of some sort, but 'l' can tell you very little about it. It has no interest for me. It is convenient, does not ache or tire, seems similar in formation to my old body. There is a subtle difference, but I cannot attempt analysis. “ Private Dowding, p. 17
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I won't come back, but I might tell someone about it if I can get through to THIS world.
And that is either clairvoyance or wishful thinking.
I won't come back, but I might tell someone about it if I can get through to THIS world.
Right
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I believe it is communication from a departed spirit through a medium.
You are free to believe whatever you want.
Thank you for your honesty, "you believe" not 'you know' as you have implied from the start.
And as i have said from day one, I will go with the evidence
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Nobody can actually know what is in the afterlife or that there is an afterlife until they experience it themselves.
So do I, I just go with evidence that you do not consider evidence.
"I believe" it is not prudent to wait until I am dead to find out I am not dead because at that time it will be too late for me to go back and do what I needed to do in THIS life.
I believe that there is an afterlife (what I call the next life) and this earthly life is preparation for the next life. I do not believe we will have the same opportunities in the next life or free will to make choices and thereby progress in the next life, as we have in this life. In other words, we have more opportunities to progress in this life, and that is why we are here.
I have some friends on my forum who used to be atheists and now they say that they believe that God exists (just not the Bible God), but they do not believe an afterlife exists. Last night I posted what I was reading in this book. The book, The Afterlife Revealed concurs with what is in the Baha’i Writings.
“Silver Birch explained that progression is constant through the spheres of consciousness and that earth provides a variety of learning experiences not available in the spirit world. “The whole object of earthly life is to have a variety of experiences that will fit the spirit for the next stage beyond earth when you have to pass into our world,” he said, further explaining that progress can be “quickened” by earth experience. Many souls, however, in exercising their free will, make wrong choices, thus failing to make significant progress during their earth experiences.
“You must be sharpened, purged, refined,” Silver Birch continued. “You must experience the heights and the depths. You must have the variety of experiences that earth provides for you.””
(Michael Tymn, The Afterlife Revealed, p. 154)
Yup. Said that long ago, again thanks for the agreement.
Your belief is not evidence
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Of course my belief is not evidence.
But there is evidence.
Truth is of our own choices. Our choices are Heaven or Hell.
We die in this world and live on as per our choices.
Regards Tony
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
FYI, most Christians do not believe the Bible says that the soul exists beyond our death. That is a Baha'i belief.
The soul is a mystery, a sign of God no human mind can ever unravel.
I said that in gest and admittedly I said it from a believer standpoint. I meant that atheists have no worries of what could happen to them AFTER they die, so they just live as if they will never die and find out.
No, I do not think that atheists are hedonistic. I think that they do not believe in God because they think there is no evidence for God. I think that because that is what they tell me. Atheists are no more hedonistic than believers. It does not do believers much good to believe in God because most of them live as if there was no God. If atheists live that way it is because they do not believe there is a God, so at least they are not hypocrites.
PoetPhilosopher
Veteran Member
For me, my thoughts are very "chicken or the egg". Suppose that I died and was resurrected but told it was only to talk to God and that I would not go on to have a good afterlife, whether meaningless or hell. God says "There is no afterlife." I say "Then why put me on Earth without meaning?" And I wouldn't believe in Him any more than if someone else who I never met says and proves they're my biological father.
So where I'm going with this is that there's a whole lot to prove. Whether God exists, whether hell exists, the nature of God, the nature of the afterlife, etc, etc, etc.
So where I'm going with this is that there's a whole lot to prove. Whether God exists, whether hell exists, the nature of God, the nature of the afterlife, etc, etc, etc.
Last edited:
PoetPhilosopher
Veteran Member
I find it best to just go by evidence, though in my mind, there exists evidence for atheism and theism, showing we really haven't figured out the nature of the universe.