Misinterpreting our experiences?

PureX said:

There is no known mechanism by which one human could sense/intuit that they are being watched. And yet the vast majority of us have experienced this. It would indicate that there is a medium, here, that we know absolutely nothing of.

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We see indications that you choose to believe
woo woo rather than a more humdrum explanation.
A lot of people saw mermaids too.
Show us experimental data for your
belief.

Regardless of what the "vast majority" may
think, there is at least a minority who are not
entirely into superstition. We like data.

You could even try it yourself. Observe
a group of people such as you might stare
at, and see how many look up, stared at or not

Obviously, people have thought of this already...

Ever Feel Like You're Being Watched? It's Not Just You

How You Know Eyes Are Watching You

The scientific reasons you can 'sense' when someone is watching you

Mock Turtle said:

Not discounting your feeling. Any possibility that your peripheral vision caught something?

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nope.

it took several minutes to do the things I did....

looked over the seat.....saw the belt and buckle on the floor board
the current day invention of a plastic 'keeper' had not been invented
seat belt over the shoulder was not an option yet

and then....in lieu of a belt....
lock the door so not to be thrown out

and then with my back on the door
slide down in the seat far enough to not be able to see over the dash board

so of course the driver wanted to know if I felt alright

the other car simply ran the stop sign

there was no means to stop that

PureX said:

It was repeatable for me. I tested the practice, often. And was surprised to see people turn around, quite often. More often than could be accounted for randomly.

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Well I haven't looked at ESP in a long while, and it was the issue in the OP that surprised me, and, although the perception is common, according to some research, this feeling cannot be verified as being reproducible, for example:

Can We Tell When Someone Is Staring at Us? | Skeptical Inquirer
https://www.researchgate.net/public...t_A_Parapsychological_Classic_with_a_Facelift
Are people really staring at you?

There are several speculations to why humans have this bias, Professor Clifford says. "Direct gaze can signal dominance or a threat, and if you perceive something as a threat, you would not want to miss it. So assuming that the other person is looking at you may simply be a safer strategy. Also, direct gaze is often a social cue that the other person wants to communicate with us, so it's a signal for an upcoming interaction." There is also evidence that babies have a preference for direct gaze, which suggests that this bias is innate.

Research has shown, for example, that people who have autism are less able to tell whether someone is looking at them. People with social anxiety, on the other hand, have a higher tendency to think that they are under the stare of others.

Thief said:

nope.

it took several minutes to do the things I did....

looked over the seat.....saw the belt and buckle on the floor board
the current day invention of a plastic 'keeper' had not been invented
seat belt over the shoulder was not an option yet

and then....in lieu of a belt....
lock the door so not to be thrown out

and then with my back on the door
slide down in the seat far enough to not be able to see over the dash board

so of course the driver wanted to know if I felt alright

the other car simply ran the stop sign

there was no means to stop that

Click to expand...

Something mysterious happened then. I can't say I have ever had anything like this. I've had a few things that I might have attributed elsewhere - like the night-demon and certain things happening whilst apparently asleep but I left them as unknown or just psychological issues. The night-demon - the top sheet (warm weather so just a sheet) being tugged away, I put down to my toes and hands battling - which my hands won.

PureX said:

When I used to ride public transportation in Chicago, I'd experiment with "ESP". It was simple enough. I would just pick someone out who was not facing me in the crown, and look at them for 5 seconds or so, and see how many of them would "sense" that they were being watched, and turn around. And I was surprised how many of them did turn around. Not half, but a lot, like maybe a quarter of them. And this is in a loud, busy, very distracting environment. I also noticed that it didn't work if I "tried" hard (willed) to make them notice me. It worked better when I just chose and looked at them casually. And it even worked when I would be on a bus of train and the "subject" was on the sidewalk of platform, walking away from me.

Not "scientific", I know, but I used to do this often, and it always surprised me how often the people I was looking at would sense being looked at and turn around to see who's watching them. The world and ourselves are still full of mystery. And we would be fools to assume that we know so much that we can dismiss whole areas of speculation. Unfortunately we humans survive and thrive by knowing the mechanics of our environment, and so we become uncomfortable with the idea of the unknown or unknowable. And that drives us to presume that we can or do know it all, when we do not.

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I’ve done that with cats since childhood. They always turn around, or so close to always that it’s definitely a thing.

Thief said:

a car accident came my way when I was soooooo much younger

I felt the event coming

really

I looked for the seat belt...…..old style car
the belt and buckle had slipped the cushions and was on the floor behind the front bench

I put my elbow on the door lock
old style peg

then I put my back on the door and tried to look …..casual

the driver wanted to know if I felt alright
Yeah....sure
just drive the car

and then a drunk ran a stop sign turning left unto the highway

no one hit the brakes
it was that quick

had I been sitting upright …..no belt......no air bags
I would have been thrown through the windshield

and 60 to 0......is said to be a sure kill

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I was riding a motorcycle on a winding mountain highway. Perfect day, almost no traffic, sunny and clear. The bike was leaned over on a fast downhill curve , the view ahead was blocked by the terrain, but it was a four lane section with a 110 kph limit so I wasn’t concerned about anything.

Out of the blue a clear voice in my head said “slow down now !” in a very commanding tone.

I slowed to about 60 and as I came around the corner there was a truck jackknifed across the entire highway, with a steep long drop on one side and the truck against the cliff wall on the other.

There is no way I can see that I would have survived at 110-120 kph. I wouldn’t even have had time to drop the bike.

Mock Turtle said:

Well I haven't looked at ESP in a long while, and it was the issue in the OP that surprised me, and, although the perception is common, according to some research, this feeling cannot be verified as being reproducible,...

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Yes, and the reason that it cannot be verified is that we have no idea what the medium is. We have nothing to test, and no way to test it. And yet, the resultant phenomena is relatively universal, and persistent.

Recently, via mathematics, we have surmised that there is a vast amount of what we are calling "dark matter" and "dark energy" in the universe. Yet we have no idea if it actually exists, or how it interacts with what does actually exist, if it exists. And we have no way to study it apart from mathematics, which is not, itself, "real", but is only a kind of language we can use to help us quantify our experience of reality.

But then there are many aspects of our experience of reality that cannot be quantified (think of beauty, justice, love, etc.), and cannot be studied except for the physical mechanisms involved in our perception of it. But that isn't the same as studying 'it'.

Yet even though all these limitations are and should be obvious to people, many tend to assume that science can discover anything, and everything, that exists. And thereby they wrongly dismiss as "unreal" anything that science cannot detect. Which is patently wrong, as any real scientist will quickly affirm. And yet this bias remains, and I think is even growing. And I think it's because we humans really want to believe that there is nothing we cannot know about, or understand, and thereby eventually learn to control to our own advantage. We are freaked out by the realization that we cannot know it all, because the unknown represents danger to a specied that survives and thrives by knowing how to anticipate and control it's environment to it's own advantage.

Howard Is said:

I was riding a motorcycle on a winding mountain highway. Perfect day, almost no traffic, sunny and clear. The bike was leaned over on a fast downhill curve , the view ahead was blocked by the terrain, but it was a four lane section with a 110 kph limit so I wasn’t concerned about anything.

Out of the blue a clear voice in my head said “slow down now !” in a very commanding tone.

I slowed to about 60 and as I came around the corner there was a truck jackknifed across the entire highway, with a steep long drop on one side and the truck against the cliff wall on the other.

There is no way I can see that I would have survived at 110-120 kph. I wouldn’t even have had time to drop the bike.

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We so often forget just how much of a mystery existence still is to us. I'm glad you're still with us!

PureX said:

We so often forget just how much of a mystery existence still is to us. I'm glad you're still with us!

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As I mentioned earlier, I had an even more horrifying experience on a motorbike (travelling much faster and on a fast empty road apparently - where we all seemed oblivious of any others who might threaten us), but I felt nothing (no God in my life?), so my escape might be seen as more miraculous - actually quick reflexes by me.

PureX said:

Yes, and the reason that it cannot be verified is that we have no idea what the medium is. We have nothing to test, and no way to test it. And yet, the resultant phenomena is relatively universal, and persistent.

Click to expand...

But as the links showed, when tested, most seem to fail the tests.

Recently, via mathematics, we have surmised that there is a vast amount of what we are calling "dark matter" and "dark energy" in the universe. Yet we have no idea if it actually exists, or how it interacts with what does actually exist, if it exists. And we have no way to study it apart from mathematics, which is not, itself, "real", but is only a kind of language we can use to help us quantify our experience of reality.

But then there are many aspects of our experience of reality that cannot be quantified (think of beauty, justice, love, etc.), and cannot be studied except for the physical mechanisms involved in our perception of it. But that isn't the same as studying 'it'.

Yet even though all these limitations are and should be obvious to people, many tend to assume that science can discover anything, and everything, that exists. And thereby they wrongly dismiss as "unreal" anything that science cannot detect. Which is patently wrong, as any real scientist will quickly affirm. And yet this bias remains, and I think is even growing. And I think it's because we humans really want to believe that there is nothing we cannot know about, or understand, and thereby eventually learn to control to our own advantage. We are freaked out by the realization that we cannot know it all, because the unknown represents danger to a specied that survives and thrives by knowing how to anticipate and control it's environment to it's own advantage.

Click to expand...

As in many things, I will leave the door open a little - and dark matter and energy, quantum action at a distance, and anything else I don't have any good knowledge about (as don't all scientists) will come into this category. Perhaps ESP has some merit but there are enough delusions common to humans not to think that this is just one of many more - no matter how common it is.

Mock Turtle said:

But as the links showed, when tested, most seem to fail the tests.



As in many things, I will leave the door open a little - and dark matter and energy, quantum action at a distance, and anything else I don't have any good knowledge about (as don't all scientists) will come into this category. Perhaps ESP has some merit but there are enough delusions common to humans not to think that this is just one of many more - no matter how common it is.

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Most seem to fail, or all do?

If its real it can be demonstrated.

Whrn things cant be then out comes dark matter and
assuming, msinstream science etc.

There was a key phrase, though ineptly applied- "want to
believe."

Theres a lot of things that can be demonstrated to be real
though utterly mystrrious. Gravity, say.

ESP has ever been demonstrated.

PureX said:

We so often forget just how much of a mystery existence still is to us. I'm glad you're still with us!

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Thank you.
Some of the other memories I could share are pretty out there, and I have learned to keep a lot to myself.
I maintain a practice of remembering that I know nothing for certain, but that is no barrier to delightful and unexpected experiences. In fact, it removes the barriers.

Audie said:

Most seem to fail, or all do?

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Depends how low you set the bar apparently.

If its real it can be demonstrated.

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One would think so, but I'm not the one to explain why it apparently is not so.

When things cant be then out comes dark matter and
assuming, msinstream science etc.

There was a key phrase, though ineptly applied- "want to
believe."

Theres a lot of things that can be demonstrated to be real
though utterly mystrrious. Gravity, say.

ESP has ever been demonstrated.

Click to expand...

Best leave it in the hands of those who do believe.

Mock Turtle said:

But as the links showed, when tested, most seem to fail the tests.

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We don't seem to be able to make it happen. It almost seems to need to be semi-subconscious.

Mock Turtle said:

As in many things, I will leave the door open a little - and dark matter and energy, quantum action at a distance, and anything else I don't have any good knowledge about (as don't all scientists) will come into this category. Perhaps ESP has some merit but there are enough delusions common to humans not to think that this is just one of many more - no matter how common it is.

Click to expand...

Not long ago most humans believed that the world was a very large flattened disc because this is how they experienced it, and so it was how they perceived it (even though not one of us had ever actually seen the defining edge of this disc). Now, nearly all of us believe that the world is a sphere because that's how we are experiencing it, even though hardly any of us have ever actually seen the whole of it, ourselves. And at some point in the future, we may learn that the world is a dimensional multiplex wherein the sphere is just one relative conceptual experience (and perspection) of it, among many. The more we know, the less we know, it seems. Almost as if reality is limitless, while we are not.

Mock Turtle said:

Depends how low you set the bar apparently.



One would think so, but I'm not the one to explain why it apparently is not so.



Best leave it in the hands of those who do believe.

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It is what believers do. They believe things.
Singers sing, players play, believers believe.

Singers or players generally have something
of substance to work with, but belief?

"God", astrology, chupacabrs,
ESP, homeopathy?

Talk about a low bar! Crawl under it!

But good advice, leave it to believer. / thread

PureX said:

We don't seem to be able to make it happen. It almost seems to need to be semi-subconscious.
Not long ago most humans believed that the world was a very large flattened disc because this is how they experienced it, and so it was how they perceived it (even though not one of us had ever actually seen the defining edge of this disc). Now, nearly all of us believe that the world is a sphere because that's how we are experiencing it, even though hardly any of us have ever actually seen the whole of it, ourselves. And at some point in the future, we may learn that the world is a dimensional multiplex wherein the sphere is just one relative conceptual experience (and perspection) of it, among many. The more we know, the less we know, it seems. Almost as if reality is limitless, while we are not.

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True we might, but I'll stick with the core reality that makes sense to me - like knowing the Earth is a round object from my own experiences (curvature seen at sea), photographs from space missions and satellites, etc., and relying on those with better knowledge than myself (the scientists) for many other matters, since I know that my impressions and experiences are not that trustworthy, even though I will try to assess them as honestly and as accurately as I can.

I won't dismiss ESP but until I come across more evidence it remains in the 'likely not' category.

Audie said:

It is what believers do. They believe things.
Singers sing, players play, believers believe.

Singers or players generally have something
of substance to work with, but belief?

"God", astrology, chupacabrs,
ESP, homeopathy?

Talk about a low bar! Crawl under it!

But good advice, leave it to believer. / thread

Click to expand...

Everyone is a "believer", believing in their particular conception of reality, and truth, based on their particular experience of it, and their particular way of understanding. The difference is that some know it, and some don't.

Mock Turtle said:

Something mysterious happened then. I can't say I have ever had anything like this. I've had a few things that I might have attributed elsewhere - like the night-demon and certain things happening whilst apparently asleep but I left them as unknown or just psychological issues. The night-demon - the top sheet (warm weather so just a sheet) being tugged away, I put down to my toes and hands battling - which my hands won.

Click to expand...

10yrs after the accident......I had a visit

living alone.....on my own.....all was well
not a care in the world

then a quick dream woke me up

I was going about my pleasures....in my dream
and Someone took hold of my arm just below my elbow
I turned to resist.....and what I saw woke me up

I found myself sleeping on my back
I have NEVER been able to do that
not before.....or after.....not now
I have even attempted to train myself to do so
and can't

I was on my back.....hands on my chest
laying corner to corner across the bed
the pillow was tucked neatly to my shoulders under my head
the red blanket was under my hands and drawn
over my feet......to the left and right
not a wrinkle

I lay on my bed as a dead man in a coffin

what I saw was......Death
wearing the bright red blanket as a hooded shawl

It had taken hold of me by the arm

and when I awoke.....my right arm was numb

Death had come to remind me
that accident should have killed me

Thief said:

10yrs after the accident......I had a visit

living alone.....on my own.....all was well
not a care in the world

then a quick dream woke me up

I was going about my pleasures....in my dream
and Someone took hold of my arm just below my elbow
I turned to resist.....and what I saw woke me up

I found myself sleeping on my back
I have NEVER been able to do that
not before.....or after.....not now
I have even attempted to train myself to do so
and can't

I was on my back.....hands on my chest
laying corner to corner across the bed
the pillow was tucked neatly to my shoulders under my head
the red blanket was under my hands and drawn
over my feet......to the left and right
not a wrinkle

I lay on my bed as a dead man in a coffin

what I saw was......Death
wearing the bright red blanket as a hooded shawl

It had taken hold of me by the arm

and when I awoke.....my right arm was numb

Death had come to remind me
that accident should have killed me

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Spooky!