Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Only materially.
That will never happen because humans could never agree and organize and make it happen.
We need one religion, not 4,200.
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Atheists: If God existed…
- Thread starter Trailblazer
- Start date
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
According to the Bible, not according to the Baha'i Writings.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I never said anything about hoping. I said I have knowledge of it.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I do not know what you mean.
ImmortalFlame
Woke gremlin
Same thing.
I said "other religions make similar claims" i.e progressive revelation, etc.
The question is: why?
And why do you trust the book's accounts of the prophecies and the events that supposedly fulfilled them?
So you've gone from claiming that it was impossible for you to be wrong, to saying that you could be wrong. That is an improvement.
Also, it should be your job to demonstrate your beliefs are true - it is not the job of others to disprove a proposition before you have provided sufficient reason to accept it.
And how do you know any of this?History WOULD be independent verification. So what supports it?
Thought progresses over time. That doesn't make any specific claims by any religion more likely to be true.
Since it's impossible to prove a proposition, especially an unfalisfiable one, wrong, what you are suggesting is impossible, so it is impossible for you to change your mind.
How? Please give me a hypothetical example of something I could demonstrate that would prove Baha'i false.
Again, how? What could I show you that would convince you of that?
Also, my cousin says he is a genie. Can you prove he is a liar?
You got that right up until the second half. It is not incumbent upon others to demonstrate a proposition is false. The burden is always on you to demonstrate that it is true - including to yourself. If you do not have sufficient justification for a belief, nobody need demonstrate it to be false.
No, Trailblazer, it's not a strawan and that is a lie. You clearly stated only a few posts ago:
Post 163:
"In my mind, it is impossible that what I believe about Baha’u’llah is not true, because there is too much evidence that shows that He was who He claimed to be."
You've yet to provide a single good reason for why you believe what you believe. You have insufficient reason to accept it. It is not incumbent upon others to demonstrate it false, you have to demonstrate it to be true.
And yet you cannot provide sufficient reason to accept it.
I know that anyone who claims that it is impossible for them to be wrong about something is clearly not a rational person, and thus far you have given me no reason to believe that you have critically and honestly evaluated your beliefs. You've presented nothing.
This is all irrelevant to whether or not your beliefs are true and how you determined it. You have provided no evidence of either.
We need no religions, only people living by the Golden Rule and the Universal Declaration of Human Rights
It's you and all your different religions and cults and beliefs that are the problem.
Yes, exactly what humanity needs. Religious people with different conflicting holy books all claiming that their writings are the right ones.
Still don't manage to see how you are part of the problem?
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It is a simple question. "What would be the purpose of, the reason for, the meaning of the existence of this god?"
If your particular god exists, for what purpose does it exist? What would be the reason for its existence? What would be the meaning of its existence? Why would it exist to begin with instead of not existing?
PureX
Veteran Member
Of course it is. And the fact that you can't acknowledge this shows a serious flaw in your supposed reverence for logic and truth.
What is illogical and untruthful about the video? What evidence do you have backing up your claim that the video is not logical and doesn't show the truth? Back up your claim that the video is just "speculation".
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If it really is a Catch-22, then it means it can't be used to justify the existence of God.
... but you can't do that without assuming that God exists to send the Messenger. You have to assume your conclusion in order to reach your conclusion, so you don't actually establish that your conclusion is true.
PureX, just to be 100% sure I haven't misunderstood your position...
We know what happens to unattended vehicles. If all humans disappear from the planet all vehicles would be unattended. Are you trying to say that if we claim that vehicles would look this after a while we are just "speculating"?
We know what happens to unattended vehicles. If all humans disappear from the planet all vehicles would be unattended. Are you trying to say that if we claim that vehicles would look this after a while we are just "speculating"?
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
We need more than people living by the Golden Rule. That's old hat.
In case you have not noticed, the whole world is in a state of turmoil.
The Golden Rule is not going to fix that.
“We can well perceive how the whole human race is encompassed with great, with incalculable afflictions. We see it languishing on its bed of sickness, sore-tried and disillusioned. They that are intoxicated by self-conceit have interposed themselves between it and the Divine and infallible Physician. Witness how they have entangled all men, themselves included, in the mesh of their devices. They can neither discover the cause of the disease, nor have they any knowledge of the remedy. They have conceived the straight to be crooked, and have imagined their friend an enemy.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 213
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
No, we do not need people with conflicting holy books, we just need ONE holy book.Yes, exactly what humanity needs. Religious people with different conflicting holy books all claiming that their writings are the right ones.
The Baha'i Faith is the solution, not the problem.
If people do not LIKE the solution, that's their problem.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
God just exists. God does not need to have a purpose to exist, but God has a function, which is to maintain the universe and to keep sending Messengers in every new age.
God just is. It is not God who has to think about the purpose of His existence, it is humans who have to think about their purpose, since God had a purpose for creating man.
“The purpose of God in creating man hath been, and will ever be, to enable him to know his Creator and to attain His Presence. To this most excellent aim, this supreme objective, all the heavenly Books and the divinely-revealed and weighty Scriptures unequivocally bear witness. Whoso hath recognized the Day Spring of Divine guidance and entered His holy court hath drawn nigh unto God and attained His Presence, a Presence which is the real Paradise, and of which the loftiest mansions of heaven are but a symbol. Such a man hath attained the knowledge of the station of Him Who is “at the distance of two bows,” Who standeth beyond the Sadratu’l-Muntahá. Whoso hath failed to recognize Him will have condemned himself to the misery of remoteness, a remoteness which is naught but utter nothingness and the essence of the nethermost fire. Such will be his fate, though to outward seeming he may occupy the earth’s loftiest seats and be established upon its most exalted throne.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 70-71
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
The existence of God does not have to be justified. God just is.
The Catch-22 is that we cannot know that God exists without the Messenger, since He is the evidence that God exists.
I meant to say we cannot know that God exists until we determine that the Messenger represented God.
God does not exist to send the Messengers, God sends the Messengers because God exists.
You only need to justify God's existence if you want your belief in God to be rational.
Irrational beliefs need no justification at all.
But without establishing God, you have no way of establishing that someone is a Messenger of God.
Right. And I'm saying that you can't determine that a purported Messenger represented God if you haven't even established that God exists in the first place.
Your argument is circular.
The world wouldn't be in a state of turmoil if we didn't have 4,200 religions including yours and everybody lived according to the Golden Rule and the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. The world is full of religious people and look at the state it's in. And your solution is more religious people? List of religious populations - Wikipedia
Your solution to the problem of having conflicting holy books is to introduce another conflicting holy book? A book that even disagrees with the Bible about what faith is? How could any rational person read the Internet Sacred Text Archive at Internet Sacred Text Archive Home and then manage to come up with the idea that what the world needs is yet another religion? As if there aren't enough of them already?
Why does God just exist?
So there is no purpose to God's existence? He exists for no purpose?
And why would God have this function to begin with?
And why is it that God just is?
There is nothing here explaining the existence of and purpose of and reason for and meaning of the existence of God in the first place... let me give you a hint... if you are going to make up a god at least make up a good reason for why he would exist in the first place...