• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Jesus loves you

Skwim

Veteran Member
If God put a stop to sin immediately with a snap of His fingers, as you seem to be implying He should have...then the millions and millions who have been purified for eternity would never have had the opportunity for eternal life.

Why? Is there a god rule stating that to get into heaven one must first sin and subsequently be purified?

He is waiting for all who want cleansing and freedom forever from the devastation of sin....
All of which could have been averted if he had simply not created sin in the first place, or at least eradicated it long ago, like on day 7 or whatever.

.
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
"Jesus loves you"

Is this just a trite cliche Christians say to others, something kids are taught in Sunday school or sing in a children's song? Or is it a profound reality with eternal impact that the Creator of heaven and earth loves you?

As the Father loved Me, I also have loved you; abide in My love. John 15:9

Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one’s life for his friends. John 15:13

Or perhaps it's just good ol' PR, to make selling the story a bit easier.
I mean without it, it's all about vengeance and wrath and stuff...
 

Regiomontanus

Ματαιοδοξία ματαιοδοξιών! Όλα είναι ματαιοδοξία.
Which is essentially saying that Christ died for us while we were still sinners, and this shows us that god loves us.

This may have been god's motive in coming to earth as Jesus and killing himself, but when it comes to any universal love there are strings attached. To wit . . . . .


Sorry, but his love comes with conditions, and if one doesn't abide by these conditions there is no love.

John 3;15
15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.​

In other words, if you don't believe in him you will parish, which hardly speaks of any universal love. Sending people to Hell to suffer for all eternity is not an expression of love, but vindictiveness. .




As the KJV puts it

1 John 4:19
9 We love him, because he first loved us.​

Which is something quite different.

In any case, his love also comes with conditions, and if one doesn't abide by these conditions god will abandon you.

1 John 4:15
15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.
In other words, if you don't confess that Jesus is the Son of God, god isn't going to be dwelling in you, which hardly speaks of any universal love.

.



I would humbly suggest that you have a misconception of what sin is. It also sounds like you have a somewhat anthropomorphized view of a God who does magic tricks. I see this caricature often. Sad.

❤️
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
I would humbly suggest that you have a misconception of what sin is. It also sounds like you have a somewhat anthropomorphized view of a God who does magic tricks. I see this caricature often. Sad.

❤️

I think you misunderstood his point completely. He addresses neither sin nore magic tricks.
What he addresses is the meaning of the word "love" and how this god's behavior is kind of incompatible with the idea that this god has universal love for humans.

His so-called love, is conditional.
That makes it kind of corrupt.

It's like loving your wife on condition that she has lots of money.
When there are strings attached, it's tainted.
 

Regiomontanus

Ματαιοδοξία ματαιοδοξιών! Όλα είναι ματαιοδοξία.
No, I have not missed the point. Thanks for sharing.
 

savagewind

Veteran Member
Premium Member
This is the way I see it.

The spiritual sector of this Earth is as a desert. I think that the Bible (and who knows what other books) describes how it got that way. Life on Earth means going through it. There is no other way.

All life needs water to survive. But, the water in the desert is hiding. I don't think it is hiding on purpose. Also, there is some shade to be found. God, and let us assume that Jesus too, knows where the water and the shade is. I realize that if ever God's will is focused on desert Earth God is also in the desert, but God doesn't live there. And now, imo, Jesus doesn't live in it either. They both want the best for everyone always. It doesn't matter if you yell at them or even if you die. If your spirit dies in the desert and of course, many do, it can be resurrected by water. But then, it is by someone else.

Loving them means your faith that they are present with you. Their loving you means that the water and the shade are always there for you whenever you need them. Obeying them means that you take the water willingly and eventually, with thanks. It is obvious that some people refuse the help that is always standing by. As Sinatra says, "I did it MY way".
 

viole

Ontological Naturalist
Premium Member
"Jesus loves you"

Is this just a trite cliche Christians say to others, something kids are taught in Sunday school or sing in a children's song? Or is it a profound reality with eternal impact that the Creator of heaven and earth loves you?

As the Father loved Me, I also have loved you; abide in My love. John 15:9

Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one’s life for his friends. John 15:13

Everybody loves me.

Ciao

- viole
 

stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
Now if someone out there knows of such a verse, please share.
Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

If God wants us to love God with all our heart, then He should set the right example.
What kind of teacher does not teach himself what he wants his students to learn?

For me, more clear than this I can't find it in the Bible.
 

BilliardsBall

Veteran Member
"Jesus loves you"

Is this just a trite cliche Christians say to others, something kids are taught in Sunday school or sing in a children's song? Or is it a profound reality with eternal impact that the Creator of heaven and earth loves you?

As the Father loved Me, I also have loved you; abide in My love. John 15:9

Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one’s life for his friends. John 15:13

It's a profound truth that Jesus loves people, risen (!) rather than Jesus loved people.
 

InChrist

Free4ever
Or perhaps it's just good ol' PR, to make selling the story a bit easier.
I mean without it, it's all about vengeance and wrath and stuff...
Good thing, too, that since God is Love, He justly takes vengeance and justly brings judgment upon all that is evil and in opposition to love and goodness.
 

Skwim

Veteran Member
Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

If God wants us to love God with all our heart, then He should set the right example.
What kind of teacher does not teach himself what he wants his students to learn?

For me, more clear than this I can't find it in the Bible.
And neither could I.

.
 

Skwim

Veteran Member
It's a profound truth that Jesus loves people, risen (!) rather than Jesus loved people.
Ahh, what does "Jesus loves people, risen" mean?


Good thing, too, that since God is Love, He justly takes vengeance and justly brings judgment upon all that is evil and in opposition to love and goodness.
I know it sounds profound when people say things like this, but exactly what do you mean when you say "god is love"? If I love BBQ ribs does that mean "I god BBQ ribs"? If so, I fail to see how any definition of god makes any sense here. Now if it doesn't mean "I god BBQ ribs" just what does it mean if god is love?

.
.
 

InChrist

Free4ever
Ahh, what does "Jesus loves people, risen" mean?



I know it sounds profound when people say things like this, but exactly what do you mean when you say "god is love"? If I love BBQ ribs does that mean "I god BBQ ribs"? If so, I fail to see how any definition of god makes any sense here. Now if it doesn't mean "I god BBQ ribs" just what does it mean if god is love?

.
.
When you say, " I love BBQ ribs". you mean you enjoy BBQ ribs, like the way they bring pleasure to you when you eat them and so on. This is a kind of love or desire associated with pleasure for ourselves.
When the scriptures refer to God's love or that God is Love it means agape love which in Greek means a love that is concerning with the best interest toward the object of one's love. I believe God is love, in that His love is always pure and with the highest intentions of good toward His creation.

What is agape love? | GotQuestions.org
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
If it is what Christians truly believe, then I understand completely why they are teaching it to their children and singing songs about it.

However, believing it doesn't make it true, at least, not in any eternal sense. I'm sure that Jesus was a very loving man. As a Torah observant Jew he aspired to love God with all his heart, soul, and strength, and his neighbor as himself. Had he lived today and known you, he would have loved you as well. In a certain sense, he loved humanity. He certainly loved the Jewish people. But he wasn't God; he wasn't the messiah. His death didn't save anyone from their sins. His love was a normal, human love.
 

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Even if you're a Christian, you know that Jesus is not God. Only God has the power to forgive sin.
It seems you are unaware of this passage from the Christian scriptures.

Since they could not get him to Jesus because of the crowd, they made an opening in the roof above Jesus by digging through it and then lowered the mat the man was lying on. When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralyzed man, “Son, your sins are forgiven.”

Now some teachers of the law were sitting there, thinking to themselves, “Why does this fellow talk like that? He’s blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?”

Immediately Jesus knew in his spirit that this was what they were thinking in their hearts, and he said to them, “Why are you thinking these things? Which is easier: to say to this paralyzed man, ‘Your sins are forgiven,’ or to say, ‘Get up, take your mat and walk’? But I want you to know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins.” So he said to the man, “I tell you, get up, take your mat and go home.” He got up, took his mat and walked out in full view of them all. This amazed everyone and they praised God, saying, “We have never seen anything like this!”

~Mark 2:4-12​
 

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Yes, the love of Jesus is conditional. It would not be love, if not. Nevertheless, His love is available for all.
If you have felt the Presence of God pursuing you, as you said, which I appreciated, had you met the conditions for that Love? Or was that Love there, regardless of where you were at in your world, pursuing you, unconditionally?

In my life, my mother's love was always unconditional. She was a gateway, a lesson for me to see God beyond my own separated life when the time came for me to reach out into the Unknown of life beyond death facing that Abyss. My experience of God, was absolute and unconditional Love beyond any possibility of anything outside of that Love. If unconditional love exists in this world, as it did in my mother, it comes from God.
 

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
'Satan is the g-d of this world
You lose the argument

'No deity exists '

You lose the argument

'Deity exists, and it's satan, '

You lose the argument

Interesting stuff.
 

susanblange

Active Member
It seems you are unaware of this passage from the Christian scriptures.

Since they could not get him to Jesus because of the crowd, they made an opening in the roof above Jesus by digging through it and then lowered the mat the man was lying on. When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralyzed man, “Son, your sins are forgiven.”

Now some teachers of the law were sitting there, thinking to themselves, “Why does this fellow talk like that? He’s blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?”

Immediately Jesus knew in his spirit that this was what they were thinking in their hearts, and he said to them, “Why are you thinking these things? Which is easier: to say to this paralyzed man, ‘Your sins are forgiven,’ or to say, ‘Get up, take your mat and walk’? But I want you to know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins.” So he said to the man, “I tell you, get up, take your mat and go home.” He got up, took his mat and walked out in full view of them all. This amazed everyone and they praised God, saying, “We have never seen anything like this!”

~Mark 2:4-12​
I do not believe in Christian theology. God is all three branches of government. Isaiah 33:22. His most important role is Judge. We are all judged by him when we die. He is also our lawgiver. Isaiah 2:3. "...for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem". God will establish a new covenant with both the Jews and the Gentiles. God is the only one who can change and add to the Torah. God will also be anointed by the Jews as King of the Universe.
 
Top