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Challenge for Theists (How you can convert me to your religion)

Catholicus

Active Member
Word Salad. does not refute my point:

IF your god exists? And IF the consequences for failing to stroke it's massive ego, is torture?

THEN your god is pure EVIL.

This isn't complicated. IF your god was, in fact, GOD?

IT WOULD KNOW WHAT IS NEEDED TO GET PAST ALL THE "DEAFNESS".

"God is Love" (i.e. kindness, compassion) says the Bible (1 John).

Hell is reserved only for those who wish to be stubbornly unkind and unloving for all eternity - they "descend into" (i.e. choose) Hell.

There they will be part of the Kingdom of Satan - who is NOT kind or compassionate.
 

Bob the Unbeliever

Well-Known Member
"Word salad" is a term people use then they are confronted with an idea that they can't/won't understand. Just because you don't understand something does not mean that it's nonsense, however. It just means that you don't understand it. It's your ego that won't allow that it is understandable even though you may not be able to understand it. You should get control of that ego, as it will blind you every time you encounter something new, otherwise.

No--- you don't get it: I did comprehend your post.

The "meaning" boiled down to Woo. Lots of prettified words in a row, that really had no Real World Substance.

Some conjecture. Some unproven claims without evidence.

And I love--LOVE your mix of Elitism with implied threat:

"Only The Magically Significant Can Join My Special Elitism Club-- and anyone Not Specially Included, gets the Boot"

Typical pile of compost.

I think "word salad" was being kind... but since you maliciously attempted to insult me with the post above? I concluded kindness wasn't in your lexicon.

Oh, by the way-- I'm not actually insulted in the slightest. I found your blustering ... cute.
 

Bob the Unbeliever

Well-Known Member
God's omnipotence (regarding planet earth) is self-limited; He has given us human beings free will.

So? Free Will has nothing in the slightest to do with anything YOU posted.

IF Your god is REAL? THEN it has the Ultimate Responsibility to Prove It Is Real.

IF your god is KNOWLEDGEABLE? THEN it knows what is needed to be Convincing.

It has failed-- miserably in both instances above.

Free Will has zip to do with either thing.
 

Bob the Unbeliever

Well-Known Member
"God is Love" (i.e. kindness, compassion) says the Bible (1 John)..

Except that he doesn't love everyone-- only the Special Favorites. Everyone else gets infinite torture instead.

Hell is reserved only for those who wish to be stubbornly unkind and unloving for all eternity - they "descend into" (i.e. choose) Hell..

The opposite of 'love' is to create a custom torture-pit for anyone who isn't convinced by the non-evidence.

Oh. My. That's not "love" that is EXTORTION.
There they will be part of the Kingdom of Satan - who is NOT kind or compassionate.

Who says Satan is not kind or compassionate? The god you believe in is maliciously evil-- and is neither kind NOR compassionate....!

In fact-- if Satan is the opposite of your god? Satan would be quite reasonable.

Hmmmmm..... you have not thought this through...
 

viole

Ontological Naturalist
Premium Member
I would require something stronger and much more difficult to obtain, than proving conjectures.

Pray for my conversion, and I will convert to your religion.

Ciao

- viole
 

A Vestigial Mote

Well-Known Member
The challenge is of the God as a piñata that we can "whack" with prayers and who gives out goodies, in this case proof. The entire frame-of-reference of the question is invalid.
But then what IS a valid way to interact with, or petition God? Is it just not effective to make any such petitions in the first place? What is prayer for then? Is there no way to validly interact with God? What is God for then?
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
But then what IS a valid way to interact with, or petition God? Is it just not effective to make any such petitions in the first place? What is prayer for then? Is there no way to validly interact with God? What is God for then?

I think it's very possible to petition God for this and that. And it's very normal for many to do so. To me, better prayer is a form of meditation. in the East, we have mantras that could be considered a form of prayer in a Western perspective.

And your question about how to interact with God is a very profound question. I could probably write a book on the topic. To boil it down, I would say that any way that you attempt to interact with the Divine is good. Some ways are more direct and more from the heart.

Some people treat God as their best friend who they can tell anything to. Some treat God as the creator of beauty. Some, especially Zoroastrians and Muslims focus on the "names of God". St. Francis saw God manifest in nature. And some focus on the "greatest commandments" and work on becoming more and more loving.
 

PureX

Veteran Member
No--- you don't get it: I did comprehend your post.

The "meaning" boiled down to Woo. Lots of prettified words in a row, that really had no Real World Substance.

Some conjecture. Some unproven claims without evidence.

And I love--LOVE your mix of Elitism with implied threat:

"Only The Magically Significant Can Join My Special Elitism Club-- and anyone Not Specially Included, gets the Boot"

Typical pile of compost.

I think "word salad" was being kind... but since you maliciously attempted to insult me with the post above? I concluded kindness wasn't in your lexicon.

Oh, by the way-- I'm not actually insulted in the slightest. I found your blustering ... cute.
Ego, auto-defense ...
 

Bob the Unbeliever

Well-Known Member
Ego, auto-defense ...

Ego indeed: As in 100% sure that you --- and only people like you -- actually talk to the Ultimate Creator of the Universe, whom you also believe worries about what you had for breakfast...

... and you don't see a wee bit of Ego in all of that?

No? Well...
 

Neutral Name

Active Member
The Collatz conjecture is a conjecture in mathematics that concerns a sequence defined as follows: start with any positive integer n. Then each term is obtained from the previous term as follows: if the previous term is even, the next term is one half the previous term. If the previous term is odd, the next term is 3 times the previous term plus 1. The conjecture is that no matter what value of n, the sequence will always reach 1.

Except pi. It is infinite. So is the universe.

The Challenge: Pray to your God for a proof/disproof of the conjecture. Post the proof/disproof here. If your god gives you a valid proof/disproof, I will believe in your god and convert to your religion.
 

steveb1

Member
snipped [U said:
The Challenge: [/U]Pray to your God for a proof/disproof of the conjecture. Post the proof/disproof here. If your god gives you a valid proof/disproof, I will believe in your god and convert to your religion.

The Challenge is inadequate because it narrowly defines God as a Creator who is amenable to intervening in processes and among creatures that "He" supposedly created.

However, there are several God-definitions that do not require that God be a Creator or an interventionist within material cycles. The Challenge omits this non-Creator/non-interventionist God-concept and is therefore incomplete.
 

Samantha Rinne

Resident Genderfluid Writer/Artist
The Challenge assumes a few things.

First, it assumes a gachapon deity which you just pray to and stuff drops out. Actually, some prayers aren't answered despite praying, and some prayers are answered without prayer. This entire Challenge puts God to the test, effectively making him act on command. God is our ally but we talk about a person. If you used your friend this way, you'd be down a friend. This is not to say God will not provide answers, but it might even be done before you ask or well after (too late for the Challenge).

Second, we are assuming that you are emotionally honest about the challenge. I find it likely that the expression "for those who believe in God no proof is necessary, for those who do no believe no proof is sufficient." I could talk about how creation implies a creator, I could talk about biological complexity, I could talk for days about what the Gospel actually means , or about how Big Bang theory perfectly fits the account in Genesis.

But this is all a stupid game to you. You never intend to believe anything, you just want to scoff and mock at how we failed and how it's somehow our fault that our God didn't do enough for a valid proof or disproof. No, your heart is the one hardened, and you do not have a standard for proof that you will accept.

For that matter, I am not allowed by my own standards to convert anyone except those of my own family.
 

Samantha Rinne

Resident Genderfluid Writer/Artist
I didn't "lose" at anything. In fact, I won, and the rest of you lost, since y'all are too chicken to get your bubbles burst praying for something that's not gonna happen. Jokes on you. Lololol:laughing:

See?

The "Challenge" is set up as a rigged game. Only, despite this, Farnsworth has already lost. You see, under panentheism, anything created is essentially the creator split in parts. So God is telling us that if we (also God) pray to God, God will answer our prayers and give us a proof or disproof, which should have to be enough to convince God (who made the rules of this Challenge) to prove God. Only he proceeds to declare himself already won, and mock us.

Too bad, it's God mocking himself!
 

Goodman John

Active Member
1 + 1 = (a miracle occurs) 3

Or should I be more specific?

On the other hand, I don't ever try to 'prove' my faith or religion to anyone. I'm not so arrogant to think out of all the greatest theologians and philosophers in history that I've somehow 'got it right' to the exclusion of all others with my poor efforts.
 
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