Damn, beat me to it. Can close the thread now.Nothing. Neither was he a rabbi.
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Damn, beat me to it. Can close the thread now.Nothing. Neither was he a rabbi.
How was your day, bro?Damn, beat me to it. Can close the thread now.
I'll message you.How was your day, bro?
And in any of these cases did Jesus curse? Did Jesus mock? Was he being sarcastic? As I even stated, he said disparaging things, but he only ever seems to have done so with a sort of style to it. Baking analogies into the words, or even directly stating what he felt was the truth, but without any overt malice. This is what I was getting at. This is what I was talking about. All you did with these quotes was prove my point, honestly. That is all you did. So thanks... way to go. You're such a good wingman. Couldn't have done it without you. High five man! Pfff...keep in mind I an a Bible believing Christian as I reply to your post, so I honestly dont care more than as an intellectual excercise-trying to immagine why it is that you would "Imagine" something about Jesus without even an attempt to find out what He did.
You carry on about Jesus on Moral standards, and how he always spoke so "Holy Moly" hippy like to everyone, without even realising you are not speaking about Jesus at all!
lets see if you even ever attempted to read the Bible!
Mat 23:33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
Mat 23:25 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.
Mat 23:26 Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.
Mat 23:27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.
Mat 23:28 Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.
Mat 23:29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,
Mat 12:34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.
You're hilarious. With this quote you display how little you know of the ease with which any self-assessing atheist does not believe in God. It is incredibly easy. I don't even need to know a lick about Jesus and I can disbelieve in God. So easy. My goodness. It is giving me some kind of "spiritual" experience here contemplating how extremely easy it is to disbelieve in God. I've got goosebumps.You see, if you dont even know what Jesus say, how can you as an Atheist deny God?
Obvious difference here - there are actual, physical realities to be studied to try and verify or falsify something like general relativity. There is no such reality-based basis upon which one can study Jesus, or even just "what happened 2,000 years ago" with anywhere near the same clarity of purpose.If I were to proclaim the theory of General relativity is rubbish, when I never read the treatice of Einstein, never studdied Physics, or any science, You will be the foirst to call me o stupid fool!
I do feel I know quite a bit about what is in The Bible. Do I know everything? No. Mostly because the more I studied it and read it, the more ridiculous it proved itself to be to my mind. So yes, I stopped short. Too much garbage, not enough worthwhile in my estimation. You're free to esteem it differently than me, that's fine. But I will continue to find it a lot lower on the metaphysical/philosophical totem than any believer may hold it to be. I honestly believe many of our (human society's) principles have moved beyond many of the immature, naive ideas in The Bible. I simply can't go back... it is just too many steps backward, and it would be foolish to discard the progress we have made.You proclaim God does not exist, yet you have no clue about what is in the Bible?
Here again... a METAPHOR. Not a direct insult. I would even need to know what you mean by "viper," in the first place. And here we come around to my other point - naivete and immaturity of thought. Why do you consider a "viper" to be "bad"? Maybe you're calling me "fast", or "good at stealth." Maybe you're commenting on my ability to overcome challenges as if I had a venom that eliminates those in my path. There are all sorts of attributes a "viper" possesses, and we only think of them as "bad" because they aren't "good" for humans. If humans had fangs and venom, we'd likely think of the viper as a comrade in arms - maybe even use them as a symbol of ourselves. You can be assured the viper himself does not think poorly of his stealth, nor his fangs, nor his use of venom. In fact, all of those things are a great boon to him and his livelihood. In my opinion, it is a great folly and foolishness, displaying a monumental intellectual immaturity to call a viper "bad" as if that had some objective meaning. And The Bible seems to do just that by using "viper" as a disparaging term. Hence one of the many reasons I find The Bible (and even Jesus himself) sophomoric and underdeveloped.Will I be correct to call you a viper?
It's your opinion of me. Believe/feel as you will.A fool?
Now here I'd actually enjoy a bit of an explanantion. How exactly have I been hypocritical? Please cite the actions I have taken or words I have written that you have observed that indicate that I am a hypocrite.a Hypocrite?
And I would most certainly ask that Jesus back up his own statements with the evidence that leads him to that conclusion. Same as I asked for from you.Well, rest assure, I wont do it for Jesus calls you just that!
Well, I think you've got that wrong.
The people around Jesus thought he was a magi.
I think that can be shown ........... but who wants to read such things?
You might want to get unbaptized.
Unbaptized means no christianity, basically, or usually. Its pretty clear in the text.
What did our dear rabbi Jesus say that shocked the world with unprecedented knowledge?
No supernatural magic, that's cheating.
Fair enough...!I do.
That there really really was a noahs ark?
What did our dear rabbi Jesus say that shocked the world with unprecedented knowledge?
No supernatural magic, that's cheating.
That there really really was a noahs ark?
Good, so by your own admission I was right.I do feel I know quite a bit about what is in The Bible. Do I know everything? No. Mostly because the more I studied it and read it, the more ridiculous it proved itself to be to my mind. So yes, I stopped short. Too much garbage, not enough worthwhile in my estimation. You're free to esteem it differently than me, that's fine. But I will continue to find it a lot lower on the metaphysical/philosophical totem than any believer may hold it to be. I honestly believe many of our (human society's) principles have moved beyond many of the immature, naive ideas in The Bible. I simply can't go back... it is just too many steps backward, and it would be foolish to discard the progress we have made.
OK, Metaphor!Here again... a METAPHOR. Not a direct insult. I would even need to know what you mean by "viper," in the first place. And here we come around to my other point - naivete and immaturity of thought. Why do you consider a "viper" to be "bad"? Maybe you're calling me "fast", or "good at stealth." Maybe you're commenting on my ability to overcome challenges as if I had a venom that eliminates those in my path. There are all sorts of attributes a "viper" possesses, and we only think of them as "bad" because they aren't "good" for humans. If humans had fangs and venom, we'd likely think of the viper as a comrade in arms - maybe even use them as a symbol of ourselves. You can be assured the viper himself does not think poorly of his stealth, nor his fangs, nor his use of venom. In fact, all of those things are a great boon to him and his livelihood. In my opinion, it is a great folly and foolishness, displaying a monumental intellectual immaturity to call a viper "bad" as if that had some objective meaning. And The Bible seems to do just that by using "viper" as a disparaging term. Hence one of the many reasons I find The Bible (and even Jesus himself) sophomoric and underdeveloped.
By telling me what Jesus said when you never read what he said?Now here I'd actually enjoy a bit of an explanantion. How exactly have I been hypocritical? Please cite the actions I have taken or words I have written that you have observed that indicate that I am a hypocrite.
I remember how a Charismatic preacher had me on my knees pushing me on my forehead, asking "Do you feel it?"I'm pretty sure it's not possible, but there's always a different viewpoint.
For baptism example, I was indoctrinated by the Church of Christ at an early age. They believe that if you don't receive full underwater baptism, you will go to hell. They cling on acts 2:38 and other verses. It was done in an above ground swimming pool. I was naked but they gave me some sort of water proof bib to clothe. It was still humiliating. The evangelist asked, also standing in the pool, if I'm sorry for my sins, I said yes. Then he asked "do you believe that Jesus Christ is our Lord and Savior"? I said yes. Then he pushed my forehead to go underwater, and then I got up. Chlorine water was up my nose and everyone around me praised.
I'm not worried about becoming unbaptized.
In the Tswana language in South africa snake is Noka, in Zulu InokaFair enough...!
The Greek word 'tecton' was used to describe Jesus and his father in the Greek bible. Tecton can mean skilled worker in materials like wood, bone, stone etc, but it can also mean 'wise' or 'highly skilled'.
The Eastern Aramaic word is 'Nagar' or 'Nagarra' and as well as 'skilled worker' this can mean crafting in the sorcery sense. A related word is 'Nacash' = serpent 'hissing'an incantation = sorcery
Kharash, magi and tekton are also related to nagar.
Serpent is Naga in India, Nagash in Babylonian, and Nachash in the Bible. All of them are associated with Sorcery.
Both the Indian Naga Serpents and the Hebrew Nachash Serpents are associated with magic. In fact one word for magic in the Bible is nachash – To (snake) hiss/whisper an incantation.
Origen said Jesus was never described as a carpenter in the Gospels.
And Jesus was being called a Sorcerer. He could do amazing things....... what do you think the humble peasants thought of the things that Jesus could do?
Nagarra! Magi!
Do you have a source where it is used to mean sorcery?The Eastern Aramaic word is 'Nagar' or 'Nagarra' and as well as 'skilled worker' this can mean crafting in the sorcery sense.
Incantations are whispered = laḥash not snaked. There is a type of prohibited divination called niḥush (Lev. 19:26, Deut. 18:10) and that shares a root with the word naḥash. But Jewish sources don't understand it as having to do with incantations and snakes in general don't appear to have much to do with sorcery. The relationship between laḥash and naḥash appears to be that the former is something you do to the latter, as in Eccl. 10:11 and not something the latter does.A related word is 'Nacash' = serpent 'hissing'an incantation = sorcery...
In fact one word for magic in the Bible is nachash – To (snake) hiss/whisper an incantation.
I don't think it's fair to say that snakes are particularly associated with magic in Hebrew. At least, not more so than clouds, which is at the root of another word for a type of divination.Both the Indian Naga Serpents and the Hebrew Nachash Serpents are associated with magic.
Tnx pal.Do you have a source where it is used to mean sorcery?
I believe you are confusing a different word: ḥarash which is Aramaic for sorcerer and the Biblical Hebrew way to say artisan or carpenter.
English <----> Hebrew <----> Aramaic
Artisan ==== ḥarash ===== nagar
Sorcerer=== m'khashef === ḥarash
Incantations are whispered = laḥash not snaked. There is a type of prohibited divination called niḥush (Lev. 19:26, Deut. 18:10) and that shares a root with the word naḥash. But Jewish sources don't understand it as having to do with incantations and snakes in general don't appear to have much to do with sorcery. The relationship between laḥash and naḥash appears to be that the former is something you do to the latter, as in Eccl. 10:11 and not something the latter does.
Also, the hissing that snakes do might possibly be called nashaf in Biblical Hebrew. It's literal meaning is "blow", but in Gen. 3:15 it's possibly being used as a double entendre in the word t'shufenu by meaning crush and snake blowing, ie. hissing.
I don't think it's fair to say that snakes are particularly associated with magic in Hebrew. At least, not more so than clouds, which is at the root of another word for a type of divination.
Wow!Do you have a source where it is used to mean sorcery?
I believe you are confusing a different word: ḥarash which is Aramaic for sorcerer and the Biblical Hebrew way to say artisan or carpenter.
English <----> Hebrew <----> Aramaic
Artisan ==== ḥarash ===== nagar
Sorcerer=== m'khashef === ḥarash
Incantations are whispered = laḥash not snaked. There is a type of prohibited divination called niḥush (Lev. 19:26, Deut. 18:10) and that shares a root with the word naḥash. But Jewish sources don't understand it as having to do with incantations and snakes in general don't appear to have much to do with sorcery. The relationship between laḥash and naḥash appears to be that the former is something you do to the latter, as in Eccl. 10:11 and not something the latter does.
Also, the hissing that snakes do might possibly be called nashaf in Biblical Hebrew. It's literal meaning is "blow", but in Gen. 3:15 it's possibly being used as a double entendre in the word t'shufenu by meaning crush and snake blowing, ie. hissing.
I don't think it's fair to say that snakes are particularly associated with magic in Hebrew. At least, not more so than clouds, which is at the root of another word for a type of divination.
It was @Ingledsva who shared much of this info with me, but I have not seen posts by her in over a year.Do you have a source where it is used to mean sorcery?.