• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Question about the Holy Spirit being our comforter

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
You're not a goat sometimes?
Funny! because we are all imperfect.
If we could stop sinning we would Not die.
We can't resurrect oneself or another.
This is why we need someone who can resurrect us - Jesus can and will - Revelation 1:18
So, when Jesus said to have the same type of self-sacrificing love as he has he was Not referring to perfection.- John 13:34-35
But, we are to put forth an on-going effort to Not deliberately, on purpose, willfully sin.
Thus, we want to do our best to overcome any goat-like tendencies - Matthew 25:37
Think about this: We can't read heart but God can, so He would know by the effort we now put forth that by the end of the thousand year reign of Christ over Earth then we will all be perfect in love.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Certainly Judas Iscariot turned himself into a figurative ' goat ' and even anyone can drift away.
I find those judged as ' goats ' are excluded and being part of the wicked ones destroyed forever - Psalms 92:7
When Jesus was talking about judging is was about little things such as imputing a bad or wrong motive to another.
Whereas, that is quite different from judging God's judgement as already recorded in Scripture.
Example: we know it is wrong to steal so we should Not question or judge whether stealing is right or wrong.

I think you know the Bible is Not God Himself, but it is a letter from God to us, penned by God-inspired men.
That is why 2 Timothy 3:16-17 says ALL Scripture is inspired by God........

The medium or go between for God and us is Christ Jesus according to 1 Timothy 2:5 as mediator.
So, to me the 'correct spiritual path' is the narrow one that Jesus instructed us to be on at Matthew 7:13-14.

Can you make difference god from the bible in a manner where you do not need the bible?

What separates god from the bible assuming, of course, I'm not talking about the physical bible but actual words/quotes/dictations from it you feel comes from god.

What is the boundary in which you do not need the bible to make a point?

That's what I mean when I say the bible is looked at as if it were god.

Other than that, you speak poorly of people as goats as if you're not in that category. Shrugs.

Everyone is on their spiritual path. Can you give what you name goats the benefit of the doubt?
 

syo

Well-Known Member
I looked up to see what Jesus taught lives in the hearts........ as found at Mark 7:21-23 I did Not find holy spirit.
Jeremiah 17:9 wrote that one's heart is treacherous.
So, it is as if a traitor is living inside of us urging us to do something.
After we do what we are urged to do then the heart gives us all the reasons why we should Not have done what we did in the first place.
I also find the part of Job's body, as mentioned at Job 27:3, was Not Job's heart.
I mean the pure hearts.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Direct relationship means no medium-no scripture-just god and you?
Yes, agree.
For example: Before Adam broke God's Law he had a direct one-on-one relationship with his God.
After the end of Jesus 1,000-year reign over Earth, mankind will once again have that direct one-on-one with God.
In the meantime, Jesus is our go between or mediator between God and man.
This is why now all prayers to God are to be given in Jesus' name, through Jesus' name.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
I mean the pure hearts.
Adam and Eve besides angelic creation I find started out with pure hearts.
Meaning they could only sin on purpose, willfully, deliberately.....
Once choosing to sin their hearts were No longer pure.
Without a pure heart according to Scripture we need a go between person, a mediator between God and man.
Only a sinless Jesus (pure-hearted Jesus) can fill that role for us, and he did and does.
Jesus, as Mediator, will fulfill that temporary role after the end of his 1,000-year governmental rule over Earth.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Can you make difference god from the bible in a manner where you do not need the bible?
What separates god from the bible assuming, of course, I'm not talking about the physical bible but actual words/quotes/dictations from it you feel comes from god.
What is the boundary in which you do not need the bible to make a point?
That's what I mean when I say the bible is looked at as if it were god.
Other than that, you speak poorly of people as goats as if you're not in that category. Shrugs.
Everyone is on their spiritual path. Can you give what you name goats the benefit of the doubt?

No, for one Jesus did Not look at Scripture as being his God, but that Scripture is God inspired.
God chose men to be His secretaries writing down His thoughts, and Jesus expounded Scripture for us.

I find we do Not choose or decide who is either a humble sheep or a haughty goat at the coming time on Earth of Matthew 25:31-33,37,40.
Acts of the Apostles 17:31 says God (Not us humans) has set Jesus as judge on judgement day, meaning the soon coming ' time of separation ' to take place on Earth among the living on Earth.
Sure, the benefit of a doubt 'IS' given to all, that is the purpose of Matthew 24:14; Acts 1:8 about the international global proclaiming about the good news of God's kingdom of Daniel 2:44.
How a person reacts to the good news message that Jesus will establish Peace on Earth will be a person's positive or negative reaction, and that reaction can place each person in either a sheep or goat category.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Yes, agree.
For example: Before Adam broke God's Law he had a direct one-on-one relationship with his God.
After the end of Jesus 1,000-year reign over Earth, mankind will once again have that direct one-on-one with God.
In the meantime, Jesus is our go between or mediator between God and man.
This is why now all prayers to God are to be given in Jesus' name, through Jesus' name.

Wait. How do you agree then have Jesus as your mediator?

Some religious don't have incarnations and go between prophets but they speak to god directly.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
No, for one Jesus did Not look at Scripture as being his God, but that Scripture is God inspired.
God chose men to be His secretaries writing down His thoughts, and Jesus expounded Scripture for us.

I find we do Not choose or decide who is either a humble sheep or a haughty goat at the coming time on Earth of Matthew 25:31-33,37,40.
Acts of the Apostles 17:31 says God (Not us humans) has set Jesus as judge on judgement day, meaning the soon coming ' time of separation ' to take place on Earth among the living on Earth.
Sure, the benefit of a doubt 'IS' given to all, that is the purpose of Matthew 24:14; Acts 1:8 about the international global proclaiming about the good news of God's kingdom of Daniel 2:44.
How a person reacts to the good news message that Jesus will establish Peace on Earth will be a person's positive or negative reaction, and that reaction can place each person in either a sheep or goat category.

But you don't need the Bible verses to say this, right?

Maybe other Christians want to debate you on it for some reason, but if God is with you, the scriptures aren't really needed.

Even moreso, is your faith dependent on scripture or on Christ? John 3:16 vs your salvation?

Cause I know you probably have memorized scriptures robotically that back what you're saying. I'm not Christian, so you can tell me God says X and I'll believe you.

In other words, those verses are crowding your points. They're not adding extra meaning to it.

Aka. they are distracting
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
But you don't need the Bible verses to say this, right?
Maybe other Christians want to debate you on it for some reason, but if God is with you, the scriptures aren't really needed.
Even more so, is your faith dependent on scripture or on Christ? John 3:16 vs your salvation?
Cause I know you probably have memorized scriptures robotically that back what you're saying. I'm not Christian, so you can tell me God says X and I'll believe you.
In other words, those verses are crowding your points. They're not adding extra meaning to it.
Aka. they are distracting

I can see your point about being distracting, after all it would take time to link to the verses for comparison.
Not any robotic memorizing but the use of a comprehensive concordance makes for a QR (quick reference) locator.
My old King James is chock full of my reference study notes about what I have researched previously.

I find Christ's faith was dependant on Scripture. In other words, the two go hand and hand.
This is why Jesus often prefaced his statements with the words, " It is written..." meaning he was referring or basing his beliefs on already recorded Scripture expounding Scripture for his 1st-century followers and us.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Wait. How do you agree then have Jesus as your mediator?
Some religious don't have incarnations and go between prophets but they speak to god directly.

In prayer we do speak to God directly but ask God through Jesus' name.
What is the reality now is that God does Not directly answer us as He did with Adam before Adam's downfall.
That direct one-on-one for us is yet future. Surely after the thousand year reign of Christ over Earth is finished.
Although a possible distraction for you, please read the link to 1 Corinthians 15:24-26
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
I can see your point about being distracting, after all it would take time to link to the verses for comparison.
Not any robotic memorizing but the use of a comprehensive concordance makes for a QR (quick reference) locator.
My old King James is chock full of my reference study notes about what I have researched previously.

I find Christ's faith was dependant on Scripture. In other words, the two go hand and hand.
This is why Jesus often prefaced his statements with the words, " It is written..." meaning he was referring or basing his beliefs on already recorded Scripture expounding Scripture for his 1st-century followers and us.

But christ did a lot of oral teaching. He didn't say, "In section 3, verse 5, in Genesis with its correspondence, god said X."

It wasn't like the people he spoke to was going to find the physical Torah, use their fingers to find the exact verse, and recite it so people know where to look. Oral teachings were passed down. Writing just preserved the teachings. The emphasis is on christ himself.

Actually, jesus spoke against this: People look to scriptures as if scriptures hold eternal life but the scriptures talk of christ. John 5:39.

My question: what's the context of this verse. I read the chapter and references but unless it has a special meaning, it seems like christ is saying don't look to scriptures themselves but the actual person those scriptures speak of.

So basically, a lot of you got it backwards. They are interchangeable but I feel if christ is working through you to someone who does not read the scriptures, it would be beneficial to the rest of us to use a medium we understand. I know it helps you but it's really a dialogue not a monologue.

What you can do is at the top or bottom, write your points and dialogue. At the bottom or top would be your footnote. Go crazy with how many scriptures you want and the reader can choose whether he wants to read it to get more context or understand it by what you wrote in your own words.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
In prayer we do speak to God directly but ask God through Jesus' name.
What is the reality now is that God does Not directly answer us as He did with Adam before Adam's downfall.
That direct one-on-one for us is yet future. Surely after the thousand year reign of Christ over Earth is finished.
Although a possible distraction for you, please read the link to 1 Corinthians 15:24-26

Let me ask, how do you know god doesn't directly answer you?

What type of answer are you waiting to know whether he did or not?
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
But christ did a lot of oral teaching. He didn't say, "In section 3, verse 5, in Genesis with its correspondence, god said X."
It wasn't like the people he spoke to was going to find the physical Torah, use their fingers to find the exact verse, and recite it so people know where to look. Oral teachings were passed down. Writing just preserved the teachings. The emphasis is on christ himself.
Actually, jesus spoke against this: People look to scriptures as if scriptures hold eternal life but the scriptures talk of christ. John 5:39.

Jesus did say that Scripture is religious truth at John 17:17.
Jesus did support his teachings with a reference to Scriputres.
I find Jesus read from the scroll of Isaiah according to Luke 4:17
Besides Jesus, people had access to the Scriptures in their synagogues.
I see at Luke 4:12 where Jesus said ' it is said ' is a reference to what is said at Deuteronomy 6:16
I find John 5:39 is in harmony with what Jesus said at John 5:46-47
Jesus and Scripture to hand in hand.
The ' oral ' teaching of Matthew 5:43 is a ' rumor ' and Not a biblical OT teaching.
Like the religious leaders human ideas outside of Scripture mentioned at Mark 7:3-5
So, the Scriptures do make clear the distinction between ' oral ' and written - Matthew chapter 23.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Jesus did say that Scripture is religious truth.
Jesus did support his teachings with a reference to Scriptures.
I find Jesus read from the scroll of Isaiah according to Luke 4:17
Besides Jesus, people had access to the Scriptures in their synagogues.
Jesus said ' it is said ' is a reference to what is said at Deuteronomy 6:16
It is in harmony with what Jesus said at John.
Jesus and Scripture to hand in hand.
The ' oral ' teaching of Matthew 5:43 is a ' rumor ' and Not a biblical OT teaching.
Like the religious leaders human ideas outside of Scripture.
So, the Scriptures do make clear the distinction between ' oral ' and written

There we go. That's better.

Yes, I understand that's what jesus said. What about jesus saying that you look to scripture as if scripture were salvation and not christ himself?

Of course scripture supports his teachings. That's why it says scripture speaks of him. So, why go to scripture when he is the foundation of the scripture's message?

Yes. Jesus was also upset because the Jews went to rituals, traditions, etc to find god when god can only be found in christ's name or through christ himself not their scripture. In other words, he was the sum of the scriptures message and the jews didn't listen.

Yes, I mentioned they were interchangeable. So, why not go to who the scriptures speak of first? Interchangeable and replaceable are two different things.

Written just preserves oral teachings. That's just a historical fact. It's not a morality thing. Many religions rely on traditions, some oral, and others written. Not really a right or wrong thing as many christians make it out to be.

Jesus did say that Scripture is religious truth at John 17:17.
Jesus did support his teachings with a reference to Scriputres.
I find Jesus read from the scroll of Isaiah according to Luke 4:17
Besides Jesus, people had access to the Scriptures in their synagogues.
I see at Luke 4:12 where Jesus said ' it is said ' is a reference to what is said at Deuteronomy 6:16
I find John 5:39 is in harmony with what Jesus said at John 5:46-47
Jesus and Scripture to hand in hand.
The ' oral ' teaching of Matthew 5:43 is a ' rumor ' and Not a biblical OT teaching.
Like the religious leaders human ideas outside of Scripture mentioned at Mark 7:3-5
So, the Scriptures do make clear the distinction between ' oral ' and written - Matthew chapter 23.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Jesus did say that Scripture is religious truth.
Jesus did support his teachings with a reference to Scriptures.
I find Jesus read from the scroll of Isaiah according to Luke 4:17
Besides Jesus, people had access to the Scriptures in their synagogues.
Jesus said ' it is said ' is a reference to what is said at Deuteronomy 6:16
It is in harmony with what Jesus said at John.
Jesus and Scripture to hand in hand.
The ' oral ' teaching of Matthew 5:43 is a ' rumor ' and Not a biblical OT teaching.
Like the religious leaders human ideas outside of Scripture.
So, the Scriptures do make clear the distinction between ' oral ' and written
Yes, I understand that's what jesus said. What about jesus saying that you look to scripture as if scripture were salvation and not christ himself?
Written just preserves oral teachings. That's just a historical fact. It's not a morality thing. Many religions rely on traditions, some oral, and others written. Not really a right or wrong thing as many christians make it out to be.

I find it is a matter of right or wrong because of what Jesus said at Matthew 15:9
To me, Jesus is clear that one's worship would be in vain (worthless) when based on such traditions.

The people would have been so much better off if they had Not given so much importance to what the Pharisees taught ( their traditions / customs outside of Scripture) .
Because of those Pharisees many would Not put faith Jesus -> John 12:42
Earlier, Jesus was clear why many would Not receive him, Not put faith in him at John 5:39-44.
The nation of Israel was expecting the arrival of Messiah for centuries.
When Jesus began teaching some discerned and were in expectation from what Daniel wrote (Luke 3:15) the time for Christ to appear or arrive would be the first century.
Those wanting to keep that old Law alive were the ones who failed to accept Jesus as Messiah.
They were accepting glory from each other instead of seeking the glory that is only from God - John 5:44
 
Last edited:
Top