Should Only Veterans Vote? (USA)

MikeDwight · Aug 16, 2019

Ya but what did that kind of voting produce? Look, suffrage, back to when they said demagoguery from black voting, felon voting, there hasn't been a vote in 200 years that discerned the Spirit of America over their own interests, as an officeholder, since the civil war, and that's why our parents 60's generation gets in the textbooks with the stupid beatniks and hippies and peaceman government, and JFK, and Just Imagine and beatles. its why we got star spangled banner is the new anthem, not Hail Columbia, its older ,its official, the Union used it, the confederates used Bonnie Blue flag on it. Every Voter every time just moves it around. Suffrage did that one. We get more and more holidays like MLK Jr and Reagan. We got people voting whatever.

Subduction Zone · Aug 16, 2019

Revoltingest said:
No.
This is not the world of Starship Troopers.
And in my experience, veterans are no wiser about
steering the country than are we draft dodgers.

The only voters should be atheistic, business owning,
expert shooting, males over 35....& with advanced
degrees in science....real science, not sociology.

Another Heinlein fan. There is something to be said for those that will put their lives on the line for their country, but that is really not the case for most in the military. The chances of them actually being at risk is very very low.

Ellen Brown · Aug 16, 2019

Revoltingest said:
No.
This is not the world of Starship Troopers.
And in my experience, veterans are no wiser about
steering the country than are we draft dodgers.

The only voters should be atheistic, business owning,
expert shooting, males over 35....& with advanced
degrees in science....real science, not sociology.

That's being SEXIST.

Shad · Aug 17, 2019

Ellen Brown said:
This will be like kicking a beehive and I understand. I'm just feeling like only those who have felt the cost of having our Country understand it.

Perhaps there is a broader classification? America is in a mess because of a Draft Dodger.

No to the OP title.

So you believe in the draft? You think it is fine for a government to forcible recruit people to fight the wars of politicians? Not merely wars of defense but regime changes, War on Terror, etc?

Revoltingest · Aug 17, 2019

Subduction Zone said:
Another Heinlein fan. There is something to be said for those that will put their lives on the line for their country, but that is really not the case for most in the military. The chances of them actually being at risk is very very low.

Putting one's life on the line can have value in time of war.
But it doesn't make one wiser about governance.
Reward them with more money perhaps?
But not with automatic political power over others.

Revoltingest · Aug 17, 2019

Ellen Brown said:
That's being SEXIST.

True.
But it's a good kind because it favors me.

Kangaroo Feathers · Aug 17, 2019

Ellen Brown said:
This will be like kicking a beehive and I understand. I'm just feeling like only those who have felt the cost of having our Country understand it.

Perhaps there is a broader classification? America is in a mess because of a Draft Dodger.

That was the theory Heinlein proposed in Starship Troopers. It has some merit, it does rather fail to take into account that veterans can be just as prone to biased or fallacious thinking as anyone else. Lotta veterans are Trumpettes, sadly, for example.

9-10ths_Penguin · Aug 17, 2019

Ellen Brown said:
This will be like kicking a beehive and I understand. I'm just feeling like only those who have felt the cost of having our Country understand it.

Been reading Heinlein?

Perhaps there is a broader classification? America is in a mess because of a Draft Dodger.

That's pretty much the only thing Trump gets criticized for that I think is misplaced.

Conscription is slavery. It's heinous enough that I don't fault anyone for avoiding it however they have.

There are certainly equity issues with how it's easier for someone with wealth and means to avoid conscription than it is for average people, but the solution to this isn't to enslave people more equitably; the solution is to just not enslave people.

Subduction Zone · Aug 17, 2019

Revoltingest said:
Putting one's life on the line can have value in time of war.
But it doesn't make one wiser about governance.
Reward them with more money perhaps?
But not with automatic political power over others.

Of course one must remember the set-up for Starship Troopers. A major breakdown of society had occurred and the only solution that they could figure out was earning the right to vote. And sometimes when I look at the people that are too lazy to vote, or vote without any real thought at all sometimes I wonder if there should not be a way to have to earn the franchise. Not anything as extreme as in that book, but earning the right to vote might make people value it more.

But since I cannot think of any cure that is not worse than what we have now I guess that the status quo will have to serve.

Saint Frankenstein · Aug 17, 2019

MikeDwight said:
That's right, Confederate Veterans! I'd lose my left hand before I write a single Confederate Veteran out of this Constitution! Blacks already Know who they are voting for, a benevolent benefactor, its like Tropico for PC.

Wtf. Why post this disgusting garbage?

ADigitalArtist · Aug 17, 2019

US views wars as money making opportunities at the expense of human lives. We haven't had justified cause for involvement in decades. So why would I support becoming a military puppet to participate in the governing of this country?

I rather think US military should be having a much smaller budget and impact on the country than it is now.

Ellen Brown · Aug 17, 2019

Kangaroo Feathers said:
That was the theory Heinlein proposed in Starship Troopers. It has some merit, it does rather fail to take into account that veterans can be just as prone to biased thinking as anyone else. Lotta veterans are Trumpettes, sadly, for example.

I rented "Starship Troopers" the other night and it was awful. Have I changed that much? I suppose so. Only watched it for about 15 minutes.

I wonder what sort of religious person would like Trump? I know that lots of Mormons did, and that was just one more reason to leave. How can a man that brags about mistreating women be elected President?

9-10ths_Penguin · Aug 17, 2019

Nowhere Man said:
It should go back to only landowners vote.

So you want the French Revolution to repeat itself in your country?

Revoltingest · Aug 17, 2019

Subduction Zone said:
Of course one must remember the set-up for Starship Troopers. A major breakdown of society had occurred and the only solution that they could figure out was earning the right to vote. And sometimes when I look at the people that are too lazy to vote, or vote without any real thought at all sometimes I wonder if there should not be a way to have to earn the franchise. Not anything as extreme as in that book, but earning the right to vote might make people value it more.

But since I cannot think of any cure that is not worse than what we have now I guess that the status quo will have to serve.

I agree.

Subduction Zone · Aug 17, 2019

Ellen Brown said:
I rented "Starship Troopers" the other night and it was awful. Have I changed that much? I suppose so. Only watched it for about 15 minutes.

I wonder what sort of religious person would like Trump? I know that lots of Mormons did, and that was just one more reason to leave. How can a man that brags about mistreating women be elected President?

Read the book. The movie has almost nothing to do with the original story.

Saint Frankenstein · Aug 17, 2019

9-10ths_Penguin said:
That's pretty much the only thing Trump gets criticized for that I think is misplaced.

He's criticized for it because he pretends to be the pro-military candidate and also because he dodged it out of pure selfishness, not due to any principled objection. Ted Nugent is another fake conservative who pretends to love the military while also being a selfish draft dodger. Also, why should someone else be sent in his place? He's not anymore special than anyone else.

Saint Frankenstein · Aug 17, 2019

Ellen Brown said:
This will be like kicking a beehive and I understand. I'm just feeling like only those who have felt the cost of having our Country understand it.

Perhaps there is a broader classification? America is in a mess because of a Draft Dodger.

No. Not everyone is fit to serve, whether for physical or mental reasons and it would be unjust to deny us the vote merely due to that. Democracy works better when the widest number of people can have their say.

Kangaroo Feathers · Aug 17, 2019

Ellen Brown said:
I rented "Starship Troopers" the other night and it was awful. Have I changed that much? I suppose so. Only watched it for about 15 minutes.

I wonder what sort of religious person would like Trump? I know that lots of Mormons did, and that was just one more reason to leave. How can a man that brags about mistreating women be elected President?

*sigh* The movie is great as cheesecake sci-fi fantasy fluff. It has precisely nothing to do with the book. The book is deeply philosophical, and was literally what convinced me to join the army way back when. It's among my top three defining books I recommend to people, please consider reading it. (my other two are Heinlein's Stranger in a Strange Land, and T.H. White's Once and Future King, if anyone's interested)

Ellen Brown · Aug 17, 2019

ADigitalArtist said:
US views wars as money making opportunities at the expense of human lives. We haven't had justified cause for involvement in decades. So why would I support becoming a military puppet to participate in the governing of this country?

I rather think US military should be having a much smaller budget and impact on the country than it is now.

Not being an expert, I have the suspicion that the WWI treaty caused WWII. And, how many times must the US and the rest of the Commonwealth bail out the British? I wonder about the Korean war? Vietnam was stupid and the rich were after Oil. The Middle Eastern wars of the 90s? What were we thinking when we invaded Afghanistan and Iraq? Eisenhower did warn us about the Military/Industrial complex...

9-10ths_Penguin · Aug 17, 2019

Saint Frankenstein said:
He's criticized for it because he pretends to be the pro-military candidate and also because he dodged it out of pure selfishness, not due to any principled objection.

I'm okay with avoiding slavery for pretty much any reason.

And "pro-military" does not have to mean "pro-conscription." In fact, in a lot of ways, I think that being against conscription is the pro-military stance. It certainly shows more respect for soldiering as a profession.

Ted Nugent is another fake conservative who pretends to love the military while also being a selfish draft dodger. Also, why should someone else be sent in his place? He's not anymore special than anyone else.

Nobody should have been sent, period. Conscription is evil... conscription for the Vietnam War especially so.

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