Should condoms be handed out

Subduction Zone · Aug 16, 2019

9-10ths_Penguin said:
I'm not so sure. At the very least, public schools should instill values, character, and ethics.

... but religious teachings that are only justified by the fact that they're religious teachings really have nothing to do with morality, values, character, or ethics.

Let's not forget economics. If one does have unprotected sex and a child is the ultimate result then one will have a debt that he will be paying off for years (eighteen at least) and it may affect one's ability to earn money. So ethically, not a good idea to be pumping out a bunch of kids when one is not ready for by either the degree of maturity or economically.

pearl · Aug 16, 2019

Saint Frankenstein said:
Obviously many parents are horrible at teaching their children about sex, which produces messed up kids who have no idea what they're doing.

Other than parents or school they learn from the streets, the exploitation of sex in the media etc., which doesn't reveal the down side.

Saint Frankenstein said:
Since so many parents are too stupid, schools must do it for them.

Yes. But I think parents are terribly uncomfortable, afraid of giving kids the wrong idea too soon.

David1967 · Aug 16, 2019

Messianic Israelite said:
What are your thoughts about handing out condoms?

My thoughts? If a person has a problem with it, they should simply say "No thanks, I don't want one."

pearl · Aug 16, 2019

9-10ths_Penguin said:
I'm not so sure. At the very least, public schools should instill values, character, and ethics.

Yes, and I would add justice and equality, in other words, good citizenship. But I think of religion as being in the morality business. I would imagine that a sex ed program in public schools address the possible pitfalls of all sexual behavior, not heterosexual alone.

Saint Frankenstein · Aug 16, 2019

pcarl said:
Other than parents or school they learn from the streets, the exploitation of sex in the media etc., which doesn't reveal the down side.

Yes. But I think parents are terribly uncomfortable, afraid of giving kids the wrong idea too soon.

All the more reason for schools to teach kids the facts. If parents aren't comfortable discussing the facts of life to their kids, they shouldn't be parents at all. There's too many stupid, unfit parents who aren't responsible and they screw up millions of people around the world, sometimes for life.

ChristineM · Aug 16, 2019

pcarl said:
Public schools do not teach morality, it is not their responsibility nor within their authority, and for good reason, whose morality would they teach?

That is the business of churches, to guide in matters of faith and morals.

That's a ridiculous comment, how one understands and lives her/his sexuality is a religious matter.

The idea of schools is to educate,

It is for the churches to deal in faith. Morality is a human concept, churches take that and manipulate it to suite their own ends. No church should think itself the arbiter of morality.

Why is my or anyone elses sex/sexually any business of the church... Why?

9-10ths_Penguin · Aug 16, 2019

pcarl said:
Yes, and I would add justice and equality, in other words, good citizenship. But I think of religion as being in the morality business.

I don't think religion and morality have much to do with each other.

... though I don't consider Divine Command Theory to be valid, so I probably don't see eye-to-eye with many religious people on this.

Guitar's Cry · Aug 16, 2019

9-10ths_Penguin said:
I'm not so sure. At the very least, public schools should instill values, character, and ethics.

... but religious teachings that are only justified by the fact that they're religious teachings really have nothing to do with morality, values, character, or ethics.

Good point! My first reaction was that morality is fairly relative from a cultural perspective, but then schools have no choice but to impart moral views as a normal part of educating.

Also, many students come to school lacking basic skills in moral and character development due to their home situation. It becomes a matter of course for teachers to balance being sensitive to the student's home culture and imparting skills needed to tackle the challenges of adulthood.

Guitar's Cry · Aug 16, 2019

Sunstone said:
You have no right to impose your filthy guilt over sex on innocent young people.

Which is the root of a lot of problems, especially where guilt over sex is stronger than guilt over violence.

Kenny · Aug 16, 2019

Messianic Israelite said:
The Bible teaches against illicit sex, but nowadays sex education in schools makes no distinction between sex within and without marriage. I understand that the reasoning behind handing out condoms is the argument that young people are going to have sex anyway outside of marriage, so why not ensure they are having sex "safely", but is that necessarily true. Is it true that young people would have sex anyway. I'm certain that this isn't the case for all young people, even though in this generation sex outside wedlock is commonplace. The Messiah constantly referred to his generation as an 'evil and adulterous generation' (Mark 8:38) but today people are committing adultery to the point that it isn't even considered to be sin anymore.

Yesterday, a news article came out which stated that a new scheme in Brighton is being initiated to hand out free condoms to under 25 year olds. The C-Card scheme - as it is known - which was launched last month is designed to encourage young people to become 'clued up on safer sex'. All you need is a C-card and you can pick up free condoms, lube and femidoms.

Some would argue, myself included, that handing out condoms for free is encouraging people to break the commandments, especially to have sex outside of marriage. Historically, the term coined used to describe people who were cohabitating and having sex not within the confines of marriage is 'living in sin' and this is true.

What are your thoughts about handing out condoms?

Personally, I think that if someone is going to have sex, they should be able to afford their own contraceptives.

pearl · Aug 16, 2019

ChristineM said:
It is for the churches to deal in faith. Morality is a human concept, churches take that and manipulate it to suite their own ends. No church should think itself the arbiter of morality.

Its not only the churches, many non churched have their own sense of morality. The school does not address these, not should it. Leaving the churches aside, people live by different cultural moralities.

pearl · Aug 16, 2019

9-10ths_Penguin said:
I don't think religion and morality have much to do with each other.

I would say 'faith' and morality have little to do with each other. It is religion that makes judgments on morality.

Messianic Israelite · Aug 16, 2019

Guitar's Cry said:
Yup. Religious beliefs around sex are culturally specific. Sex as a component of being human is universal. If your religion forbids it, it's your responsibility to follow through. It is society's responsibility to manage public health.

@Guitar's Cry
Fair enough. But don't you feel society's responsibility is failing. They are just under 750,000 teen pregnancies a year and recent estimates show that about 40 percent of births in the United States occur outside of marriage, up from 28 percent in 1990 (Child Trends, 2016).

Surely you can see that even with all the sex education and handing out of condoms today, the approach is not working. Wouldn't it be better to rather than reverse the role of the Government in encouraging people to have sex, society should deem sex and marriage to be synonymous with each other.

Many sexual diseases such as AIDS would be prevented if illicit sex and sex outside of marriage wasn't engaged in.

Skwim · Aug 16, 2019

Subduction Zone said:
And though you saw it in old coming of age movies, don't keep them in your wallet. A warm humid container will increase your chances of failure. Plus it molds a tacky ring in the leather. Have a bit of class.

Absolutely. Girls should be carrying them in their purses. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Hmmm . . . . Do girls even carry purses anymore?

.

.

Messianic Israelite · Aug 16, 2019

9-10ths_Penguin said:
If you're not being forced to take condoms, your religious beliefs have been accommodated.

It's not your place to impose your personal beliefs on others, especially not when it's a matter of public health. Anyone who believes as you do can just not take the condoms.

@9-10ths_Penguin
It's true that, as a religious person I could just choose not to accept condoms. I guess my concern is for those who are spiritually weak who would be inclined to take the condoms and have illicit sex. I mean, by your standards then as outlined in your post you probably don't believe that religious people should witness their faith...? I am assuming, since the idea behind not imposing your personal beliefs on others sounds a lot to me like one shouldn't try to affect moral change. I might be wrong.

Guitar's Cry · Aug 16, 2019

Messianic Israelite said:
@Guitar's Cry
Fair enough. But don't you feel society's responsibility is failing. They are just under 750,000 teen pregnancies a year and recent estimates show that about 40 percent of births in the United States occur outside of marriage, up from 28 percent in 1990 (Child Trends, 2016).

Surely you can see that even with all the sex education and handing out of condoms today, the approach is not working. Wouldn't it be better to rather than reverse the role of the Government in encouraging people to have sex, society should deem sex and marriage to be synonymous with each other.

Many sexual diseases such as AIDS would be prevented if illicit sex and sex outside of marriage wasn't engaged in.

A quick Google search suggests that comprehensive sex education does have a positive effect and that abstinence only programs are the ones contributing to teen pregnancies and STD rates:

Abstinence-Only Education and Teen Pregnancy Rates: Why We Need Comprehensive Sex Education in the U.S

I am sorry, but I don't believe that sex and marriage will ever be truly synonymous with each one. One, because not all married couples have sex, and two sex is such an important and intrinsic part of being human it transcends our approaches to controlling it. I would rather have a population educated in how to safely engage in sex rather than attempting to restrict it to marriage.

Father Heathen · Aug 16, 2019

"Scheme"? What would their ulterior motives be?

Messianic Israelite · Aug 16, 2019

9-10ths_Penguin said:
@Messianic Israelite - something to consider:

As someone who believes in accountable democracy, I demand a say in the rules, laws, and policies that I have to live under.

If public policy were to be dictated by the tenets of your religion, then I - an irreligious atheist - would demand a say in your religion.

Is this really what you want to see happen? Do you think your religion will be made better or worse by the influence of people like me?

@9-10ths_Penguin
You are an atheist so me saying this probably won't have much bearing but we believe in a Kingdom that will come upon earth and last for a millennium (Revelation 20:4). The reason I say this is because in that Kingdom we believe the laws of the land will be the Bible. Right now, I could not possibly hope that any Government would choose the laws of the Bible over their own ideas. However, in that Kingdom, rules will be set and the Messiah will reign and the Kingdom is supposed to be an idealistic world - a Garden of Eden type atmosphere restored. Why I'm saying this is because you said you would want a demand in the say of a religion. Well, that's not really how religion works. If the Word is from Yahweh we obey what we have in front of us because it is the Living Word (Hebrews 4:12)

If the Bible were not the Word of the Most High then why not have a say in what it says, but it is, so you wouldn't get a say. Sounds harsh when I put it that way, but just as a father knows best what is for their child and what will make them happy, so does Yahweh.

Subduction Zone · Aug 16, 2019

Messianic Israelite said:
@9-10ths_Penguin
It's true that, as a religious person I could just choose not to accept condoms. I guess my concern is for those who are spiritually weak who would be inclined to take the condoms and have illicit sex. I mean, by your standards then as outlined in your post you probably don't believe that religious people should witness their faith...? I am assuming, since the idea behind not imposing your personal beliefs on others sounds a lot to me like one shouldn't try to affect moral change. I might be wrong.

Hold it now, what makes you think that a person that has "illicit sex" is spiritually weak. If anything that would be those that pass false judgement upon others.

One of the problems with Christianity is that it treats sex as if it were an evil. And morality wise atheist morals tend to be superior to "Christian morals".

Subduction Zone · Aug 16, 2019

Messianic Israelite said:
@9-10ths_Penguin
You are an atheist so me saying this probably won't have much bearing but we believe in a Kingdom that will come upon earth and last for a millennium (Revelation 20:4). The reason I say this is because in that Kingdom we believe the laws of the land will be the Bible. Right now, I could not possibly hope that any Government would choose the laws of the Bible over their own ideas. However, in that Kingdom, rules will be set and the Messiah will reign and the Kingdom is supposed to be an idealistic world - a Garden of Eden type atmosphere restored. Why I'm saying this is because you said you would want a demand in the say of a religion. Well, that's not really how religion works. If the Word is from Yahweh we obey what we have in front of us because it is the Living Word (Hebrews 4:12)

If the Bible were not the Word of the Most High then why not have a say in what it says, but it is, so you wouldn't get a say. Sounds harsh when I put it that way, but just as a father knows best what is for their child and what will make them happy, so does Yahweh.

And you can believe any fantasy that you want to. Just don't try to impose your fantasy upon others. That is immoral.

Should condoms be handed out

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