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A question about psychic powers and demons

Frank Goad

Well-Known Member
If someone is getting psychic powers from demons(like telekinesis).And want to hurt a christian with their telekinetic powers. .Like for example trying to kill them or undress them with their mind.Do you think it would work?I would think not.Just because the fact that christians have jesus looking out for them.When stuff like this happens.
 

Road Less Traveled

Active Member
If someone is getting psychic powers from demons(like telekinesis).And want to hurt a christian with their telekinetic powers. .Like for example trying to kill them or undress them with their mind.Do you think it would work?I would think not.Just because the fact that christians have jesus looking out for them.When stuff like this happens.

Them ‘demons’ can be sent my way all they’d want to.... I would annihilate them all. They’d be too afraid to mess with.....speaking confidently yet humbly. (If they existed.)

But if they existed... they’d must have once messed with me a lot a while ago and had their way with me quite a bit. Pushed my buttons, pulled my strings, manipulated through fear, stupid thoughts, false guilt, gaslights, emotions, etc. I’d have been powerless and not in control at one point.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
Them ‘demons’ can be sent my way all they’d want to.... I would annihilate them all. They’d be too afraid to mess with.....speaking confidently yet humbly. (If they existed.)

Jesus dealt with the demons, who knew exactly who he was and were compelled to obey him. I believe that confirms their existence.

James 4:7-8 says...."7.... subject yourselves to God; but oppose the Devil, and he will flee from you. 8 Draw close to God, and he will draw close to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you indecisive ones."

This gives us the way to avoid becoming a victim of demon activity. You must actively oppose them, which mean not participating in any activity that would invite them.....spiritism in all its forms was condemned in God's law. (Deuteronomy 18:9-12)
Along with avoiding those practices, James says we need to "draw close to God".....'cleansing our hands' means to avoid doing anything that would invite the demons into our life.....anything that would prevent full control over our clear, informed thinking ability. You will notice that James mentions the 'hearts of indecive ones' being 'purified'. This means not entertaining any leanings towards supernatural influences. "Curiosity killed the cat" applies to humans too.

But if they existed... they’d must have once messed with me a lot a while ago and had their way with me quite a bit. Pushed my buttons, pulled my strings, manipulated through fear, stupid thoughts, false guilt, gaslights, emotions, etc. I’d have been powerless and not in control at one point.

Any practice that reduces inhibitions can give the demons a clear path to influence human behavior. Drug and alcohol abuse and even some forms of mental illness can make people more vulnerable. These creatures are opportunists, so the Bible gives us all the ways we need to avoid becoming victims.

@Frank Goad it is best to educate ourselves in order to avoid coming into contact with demons. Do what God says to do...and avoid what God says is spiritually, morally or physically dangerous. It's really that simple. If you actively "oppose the devil" by living according to Bible principles, you will be protected.
 

Frank Goad

Well-Known Member
Jesus dealt with the demons, who knew exactly who he was and were compelled to obey him. I believe that confirms their existence.

James 4:7-8 says...."7.... subject yourselves to God; but oppose the Devil, and he will flee from you. 8 Draw close to God, and he will draw close to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you indecisive ones."

This gives us the way to avoid becoming a victim of demon activity. You must actively oppose them, which mean not participating in any activity that would invite them.....spiritism in all its forms was condemned in God's law. (Deuteronomy 18:9-12)
Along with avoiding those practices, James says we need to "draw close to God".....'cleansing our hands' means to avoid doing anything that would invite the demons into our life.....anything that would prevent full control over our clear, informed thinking ability. You will notice that James mentions the 'hearts of indecive ones' being 'purified'. This means not entertaining any leanings towards supernatural influences. "Curiosity killed the cat" applies to humans too.



Any practice that reduces inhibitions can give the demons a clear path to influence human behavior. Drug and alcohol abuse and even some forms of mental illness can make people more vulnerable. These creatures are opportunists, so the Bible gives us all the ways we need to avoid becoming victims.

@Frank Goad it is best to educate ourselves in order to avoid coming into contact with demons. Do what God says to do...and avoid what God says is spiritually, morally or physically dangerous. It's really that simple. If you actively "oppose the devil" by living according to Bible principles, you will be protected.

Deeje.Can you answer my post at the very top of the other posts?
 
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Hockeycowboy

Witness for Jehovah
Premium Member
It would depend on a few factors. One is, if a person shows that they are willing to delve into the occult themselves, Christian or not, despite God's warning... Jehovah (and Jesus) might let the demons do it...it's their power behind such stuff like that. IMO, anyways.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
If someone is getting psychic powers from demons(like telekinesis).And want to hurt a christian with their telekinetic powers. .Like for example trying to kill them or undress them with their mind.Do you think it would work?I would think not.Just because the fact that christians have jesus looking out for them.When stuff like this happens.

From the scriptures it is clear that the demons have power, but they are not permitted to exercise it over Christ's disciples unless there is a breach of God's law concerning spiritism. God teaches us how to protect ourselves.

As far as telekinesis is concerned.....at present, here on earth, supernatural things are only seen in the realm of demonic activity. We have accounts of supernatural events taking place in Bible times, but these were only performed under the direction of God by means of his holy spirit. Jesus was given God's spirit at his baptism and he was thereafter able to perform miracles, but only for the three and a half years he served as God's Messiah on earth. He passed this holy spirit along to his apostles after he died, and they too were able to perform supernatural feats. But this was only until the apostles died.....they were the only ones who could lay their hands on someone to impart the holy spirit to them. But once the apostles died, the gifts died with them. They were only for a limited time and for a two-fold reason.

1) It was a demonstration of what was to come under the rulership of God's kingdom......there will be no sickness, aging or death in the new world to come. (2 Peter 3:13; Revelation 21:2-4)

2) It was to show the Jews, (and later the Gentiles) that God had shifted his favor from the corrupted Jewish system to the newly established Christian arrangement.

Once the Christian congregation was established however, it was no longer necessary to see the miracles in order to convince people of God's backing. Christians would now demonstrate a more mature attitude towards their worship.

Paul put it this way...1 Corinthians 13:8-13...
"But if there are gifts of prophecy, they will be done away with; if there are tongues, they will cease; if there is knowledge, it will be done away with. . . . .When I was a child, I used to speak as a child, to think as a child, to reason as a child; but now that I have become a man, I have done away with the traits of a child. . . . .Now, however, these three remain: faith, hope, love; but the greatest of these is love."

So the qualities of "faith hope and love" would now dominate Christian thinking. Paul said that the supernatural feats performed after they were to be "done away with" would be an indication that satan was up to his old tricks. He is a mimic so that he can deceive people. (2 Corinthians 11:13-15)

At 2 Thessalonians 2:9-10, he said....
"But the lawless one’s presence is by the operation of Satan with every powerful work and lying signs and wonders 10 and every unrighteous deception for those who are perishing, as a retribution because they did not accept the love of the truth in order that they might be saved."

This ties in with what Jesus foretold about the judgment time....
Matthew 7:21-23...
"Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the Kingdom of the heavens, but only the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will. 22 Many will say to me in that day: ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them: ‘I never knew you! Get away from me, you workers of lawlessness!’"

So this lawlessness is the breaking of God's laws, watering down his moral standards and supporting the nations in bloodshed, whilst performing these "powerful works" in the devil's power, not God's. This is why today's 'miracles' are often half-baked or complete failures. If it was the same spirit that healed the people in Bible times it would be 100% successful. It clearly isn't.

Some people possess a propensity to be sensitive in things like premonitions, or like psychics who seem to be able to predict someone's future.....fortune tellers, astrologers, etc have been around a long time. Not everyone has this propensity, but certain people do. One can only guess where they get these powers.....and I know from the Bible, that it isn't from God.
 
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Michelle71

Member
If someone is getting psychic powers from demons(like telekinesis).And want to hurt a christian with their telekinetic powers. .Like for example trying to kill them or undress them with their mind.Do you think it would work?I would think not.Just because the fact that christians have jesus looking out for them.When stuff like this happens.

I can tell you how I understand thing of this nature at the moment. The things that happen in our lives are there to tease out our true nature. No matter if we are being afflicted or if we have come into some great wealth or prosperity, its purpose is to make us familiar who we really are and what we really want - make us hot or cold and not lukewarm, so to speak. So, if a person thinks they are christian but deep in their hearts they are not, then a deceiving spirit might be given permission to harass or torment that person so they become less complacent in their walk with God or decide, once and for all, to walk away from him.

In your example the demon might be given the power to grant someone telekinesis. That would be effective in taking that persons attention away from God and, in his place, maybe they begin to worship themselves instead. Their self-indulgence may be their true nature, teased out. If the christian needed their faith tested the man with the telekinesis might be there to tease out the true nature of the christian as well - for or against God and goodness. The christian also might be used as a strong testimony for Christ, enabling the character of the christian to sway they heart of the demon afflicted man. Everything is within God's plan. Every person is wanted by God, not just the christian. If there are 99 sheep that are safe, the Sheppard leaves them to search for the one that is lost. Everything is possible until we choose.
 

Jainarayan

ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
Staff member
Premium Member
I would very much like to know why Christians are so obsessed with demons? Christianity is about the only religion afaik that obsesses over demons as much as it does.

Let's review who don't even believe in demons (the Christian variety who vex mankind). We have our own varieties of unsavory spirits, but nothing like Beelzebub and his minions:
  • Hindus
  • Sikhs
  • Jains
  • Shinto
  • Buddhists
  • Jews
  • Muslims
  • Pagans
  • Heathens
  • All reconstructionist religions
  • Daoism and traditional Chinese religion
  • Bahá'í
  • So many more!
Or could it be that because we don't follow the "one true God", we've all been deluded by the demons!? :eek: I mean, really... what is up with all these demons?

Btw, yes there is a strong undercurrent of tongue-in-cheek and sarcasm in this post, but on a serious note I wonder if it's a case of mass hysteria, propagated through the centuries.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
Let's review who don't even believe in demons (the Christian variety who vex mankind). We have our own varieties of unsavory spirits, but nothing like Beelzebub and his minions:
  • Hindus
  • Sikhs
  • Jains
  • Shinto
  • Buddhists
  • Jews
  • Muslims
  • Pagans
  • Heathens
  • All reconstructionist religions
  • Daoism and traditional Chinese religion
  • Bahá'í
  • So many more!

To me that just means that they have been incredibly successful. You don't fight what you don't believe is there. Or you don't fight what you believe is a friend....or even a god.

What a good trick! The devil and his demons have so many believing that they are a figment of people's imagination.....I know from personal experience that they are not.
 

Jainarayan

ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
Staff member
Premium Member
To me that just means that they have been incredibly successful. You don't fight what you don't believe is there. Or you don't fight what you believe is a friend....or even a god.

What a good trick! The devil and his demons have so many believing that they are a figment of people's imagination.....I know from personal experience that they are not.

How am I tricked, deceived, deluded? :rolleyes: What have they gotten me to do? Call God by a different name? Eschew violence, lying and deceiving others, stealing; being as compassionate to other living beings as I possibly can? B-b-b-but Satan is the father of lies! And I refuse to do his bidding? o_O Please enlighten me. How do I recognize these demons and fight them?
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
How am I tricked, deceived, deluded? :rolleyes: What have they gotten me to do? Call God by a different name? Eschew violence, lying and deceiving others, stealing; being as compassionate to other living beings as I possibly can? B-b-b-but Satan is the father of lies! And I refuse to do his bidding? o_O Please enlighten me. How do I recognize these demons and fight them?

Do you respect what the Bible says, or do you discount it? If you don't respect the Bible as God's word, then there is no basis for making important decisions about our religious direction. I see that book as God's only continuing communication with the human race. It answers all questions, and tells us why the world is in such a mess, and also gives us his solution to all of it.

The apostle Paul warned about the 'many gods and many lords' of those who do not worship Jehovah. He said that the devil masquerades as "an angel of light" in order to mislead those who may be spiritually minded. Satan already has "unbelievers" sidetracked, (2 Corinthians 4:3-4) so he targets the spiritually minded in order to siphon off that spirituality into a form of worship that is in opposition to the true God.

All worship that does not go to the true God, by default goes to the only other 'god' there is....a 'wannabe' fake god who hijacked God's original purpose and led the human race away from the true God in the beginning.

He goes under many names and operates under many different belief systems....but at the end of the day, they are all part of his empire. This empire is called "Babylon the great" in Revelation 18 and it is viewed by God as a spiritual harlot....in bed with God's enemy. "Babylon the great" is to be destroyed and God's "people" are warned to "get out of her" if they don't want to go down with her. (Revelation 18:4) We make that choice.

This is what I believe.....and at the end of the day, we all put ourselves where our heart is. God knows who we are, better than we do.
 

Jainarayan

ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
Staff member
Premium Member
Do you respect what the Bible says, or do you discount it?

I don't entirely discount it. I take it for what it is and has... some moral truths and guidelines. But they can be found in virtually any religious text. Some truths transcend time, place, language. The Bhagavad Gita predates the Bible itself and Jesus by at least several centuries, if not a millennium or two. So the Bible is hardly original.

Some of the Bible may be divinely inspired, but I can't accept the destruction of Jericho and the wholesale slaughter of its inhabitants... old people, women, children, as coming from a benevolent and loving God, for any reason. Or the death sentences given for some of the 633 commandments in Exodus and Leviticus. Jesus did not set those aside.

18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. Matthew 5:18-19

Everything is not accomplished because when last I looked, Earth at least, is still here; moreover, Jesus has not returned to establish his kingdom. So those laws still stand. You must stone your back-talking children to death. I didn't make up the laws. :shrug:

Jesus reiterated some of what's in the Bhagavad Gita, not all, of course. What he didn't reiterate was what wasn't relevant to the time and place. The Bhagavad Gita was set on a battlefield in a time of war.

So, if I try to live as Jesus, and Krishna before him taught, if I try to do the things they ask, worship God (whatever one calls him) with love and devotion, am I being deluded? Where have I gone wrong? Who is anyone to say that if I call God by a different name I'm not worshiping the same God as you? Did you know that in the Orthodox Christian Churches that speak Arabic, they call God Allah? They don't call him Jehovah or Yahweh. I heard that right from the lips of an Arabic-speaking Orthodox priest.

In fact, in the Bible God has no name other than I am who am. Jesus never calls him anythig other abba, father. Did the apostles give God a name? So how do we know he doesn't go by different names? Who limited God?

The apostle Paul warned about the 'many gods and many lords' of those who do not worship Jehovah. He said that the devil masquerades as "an angel of light" in order to mislead those who may be spiritually minded. Satan already has "unbelievers" sidetracked, (2 Corinthians 4:3-4) so he targets the spiritually minded in order to siphon off that spirituality into a form of worship that is in opposition to the true God.

All worship that does not go to the true God, by default goes to the only other 'god' there is....a 'wannabe' fake god who hijacked God's original purpose and led the human race away from the true God in the beginning.

jāki rahi bhāvanā jaisi
prabhu mūrat dekhi tin taisi

The way one perceives God, He will appear
in that very same way to the devotee. - Indian saying

ekam sat viprāha bahudhā vadanti
The Truth is One; the wise know it by many names. Rig Veda 10.164.46

ye yathā māṁ prapadyante tāns tathaiva bhajāmyaham
mama vartmānuvartante manuṣhyāḥ pārtha sarvaśhaḥ

In whatever way people surrender unto me, I reciprocate with them accordingly.
Everyone follows my path, knowingly or unknowingly. Bhagavad Gita 4.11

ākashat patitam toyam yatha gatchathi sagaram
sarva deva nāmaskaram keshavam prathi gatchathi

Just as the drops of water from the sky do end in the ocean, all prayers reach the one God. - Srimad Bhagavatam

I don't call God by the name Jehovah or Yahweh. So why is that a problem? o_O

....and at the end of the day, we all put ourselves where our heart is. God knows who we are, better than we do.

Right.

api chet su-durāchāro bhajate mām ananya-bhāk
sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ samyag vyavasito hi saḥ

Even if the vilest sinners worship Me with exclusive devotion, they are to be considered righteous, for they have made the proper resolve. BG 9.30

anta-kāle cha mām eva smaran muktvā kalevaram
yaḥ prayāti sa mad-bhāvaṁ yāti nāstyatra sanśhayaḥ

Those who relinquish the body while remembering Me at the moment of death will come to Me.
There is certainly no doubt about this. BG 8.5
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
I don't entirely discount it. I take it for what it is and has... some moral truths and guidelines. But they can be found in virtually any religious text. Some truths transcend time, place, language. The Bhagavad Gita predates the Bible itself and Jesus by at least several centuries, if not a millennium or two. So the Bible is hardly original.
No one pre-dates the true God, Jehovah.
Genesis takes us back to creation and the history of mankind from the beginning. The fact that is was not committed to writing until some 1500 years befor the birth of Christ does not discount its authenticity. God gave that history to his people, who did not exist as a nation until their release from Egypt, under the leadership of Moses, who was privileged to provide that information, which could only have come from God.

Some of the Bible may be divinely inspired, but I can't accept the destruction of Jericho and the wholesale slaughter of its inhabitants... old people, women, children, as coming from a benevolent and loving God, for any reason. Or the death sentences given for some of the 633 commandments in Exodus and Leviticus. Jesus did not set those aside.

If you view life from the perspective of the Creator, rather than from a limited human standpoint, you will understand why he could eliminate whole cities whose inhabitants were incorrigibly wicked. Abraham's conversation with God over the inhabitants of Sodom was revealing. (Genesis 18:20-33) What God sees is not what man sees.

For a God who can restore life as easily as he takes it, you make no allowance for the Bible's teaching of the resurrection. (John 5:28-29)

18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. Matthew 5:18-19

You missed that one little word...."until". The Law was to stay in force "until" Jesus had completed his mission. His death ended the Law. (Romans 10:4; Romans 6:14)

Jesus introduced a "new covenant" on the night before his death and affirmed that the new arrangement would also have a simplified set of laws.

Matthew 22:35-40....
"And one of them, versed in the Law, tested him by asking: 36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?” 37 He said to him: “‘You must love Jehovah your God with your whole heart and with your whole soul and with your whole mind.’ 38 This is the greatest and first commandment. 39 The second, like it, is this: ‘You must love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments the whole Law hangs, and the Prophets.”

All those laws were reduced to just two because you could not break any of those laws without breaking one or both of those two. The new arrangement had no authority to carry out the death penalty except according to law of the land. Even with Jesus' execution, the Jews had to appeal to Caesar in order to carry out the deed.

Everything is not accomplished because when last I looked, Earth at least, is still here; moreover, Jesus has not returned to establish his kingdom. So those laws still stand. You must stone your back-talking children to death. I didn't make up the laws. :shrug:

What was accomplished was monumental because it was the culmination of one part of the solution that God foretold way back in the garden of Eden. The first prophesy was recorded in Genesis 3:15. It was a mystery for many centuries as to who the players were in that prophesy. But as time went on, their identity and the full meaning of the prophesy became clear. We see a bruising of the heel accomplished in the death of Christ....but a fatal head wound is still to come for the serpent who caused all this trouble in the first place.

Jesus was not to bring peace immediately but to act as a divider of mankind. (Matthew 10:32-39)

When was the last time you saw Jews stoning their children? Gentiles are not under the Mosaic Law and never were. (Romans 2:14-16)

So, if I try to live as Jesus, and Krishna before him taught, if I try to do the things they ask, worship God (whatever one calls him) with love and devotion, am I being deluded? Where have I gone wrong? Who is anyone to say that if I call God by a different name I'm not worshiping the same God as you? Did you know that in the Orthodox Christian Churches that speak Arabic, they call God Allah? They don't call him Jehovah or Yahweh. I heard that right from the lips of an Arabic-speaking Orthodox priest.

Since there is only one true God and one fake one, any god who has a name that is different from Jehovah (Yahweh) is not the true God. It matters greatly what you call him. He answers to no other name....satan answers to all of them.
"Allah" is the Arabic version of "Lord"....that ambiguous title given to the many nameless gods.

In fact, in the Bible God has no name other than I am who am. Jesus never calls him anythig other abba, father. Did the apostles give God a name? So how do we know he doesn't go by different names? Who limited God?

Not true. According to the Tanach, God has never been called "I Am". His name YHWH means "I Will Be What I Will Be" which is not a statement of his existence, but a confirmation that he will BE whatever he needs to be in order to accomplish his will.

Jesus rightly called his Father what any son calls his father. The term "Abba" means "papa"...an intimate term of endearment. But he said he had come to make his Father's name known. (John 17:25-26)

I don't call God by the name Jehovah or Yahweh. So why is that a problem? o_O

Exodus 3:15....Moses was told.....
“This is what you are to say to the Israelites, ‘Jehovah the God of your forefathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.’ This is my name forever, and this is how I am to be remembered from generation to generation."

Peter, quoting Joel 2:32, told his fellow Jews “Everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved.” (Acts 2:21) The Tanach has God's name in the Hebrew text.

Unless you 'call on the name of Jehovah' in faith (i.e. Not just using his name as some kind of formality, but in genuine worship directed at "the only true God" as Jesus acknowledged in John 17:3) there will be no salvation. No other God can save us from what is coming.

That is how I see it, according to what the Bible teaches.
 

Jainarayan

ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
Staff member
Premium Member
No one pre-dates the true God, Jehovah.

How do you know what his name is? Did you read nothing I wrote about it?

Genesis takes us back to creation and the history of mankind from the beginning. The fact that is was not committed to writing until some 1500 years befor the birth of Christ does not discount its authenticity. God gave that history to his people, who did not exist as a nation until their release from Egypt, under the leadership of Moses, who was privileged to provide that information, which could only have come from God.

Yeah, ok. That's about all I can say to that because geology, archaeology, paleontology and anthropology would vehemently and provably disagree with you.

If you view life from the perspective of the Creator, rather than from a limited human standpoint, you will understand why he could eliminate whole cities whose inhabitants were incorrigibly wicked. Abraham's conversation with God over the inhabitants of Sodom was revealing. (Genesis 18:20-33) What God sees is not what man sees.

No excuse or justification whatsoever. That picture of a murderous, vengeful, petty, warlike God was painted by desert nomads for control purposes. No enlightened Christian in this modern day believes that is literal, or believes that is God. Or rather, they shouldn't. That is not the God Jesus spoke of. That is not the God of the New Testament. In fact, I think the Bible speaks of two different Gods... the murderous, vengeful, petty, warlike God that was a deity of the Semitic pantheon, co-opted by the early Hebrews. Who actually weren't "Hebrew" at all. They were Sumerians. "Ur of the Chaldees" was a Sumerian city, and Abra(ha)m was a Sumerian who worshiped the Sumerian gods. All right in the archaeology.

You missed that one little word...."until". The Law was to stay in force "until" Jesus had completed his mission. His death ended the Law. (Romans 10:4; Romans 6:14)

Jesus introduced a "new covenant" on the night before his death and affirmed that the new arrangement would also have a simplified set of laws.

No, no, no, non, nuh uh, nyet, nein, ohi, eeay, You're suggesting he contradicted, reversed himself from Matthew 5:18-19. Can't he make up his mind? His work included returning to establish his kingdom. I ain't see no coronation procession yet. Btw, Paul is not a credible source... he usurped Peter's primacy, and started teaching things Jesus never said, and I dare say never meant to say. Tl;dr.. Paul put ****-talk in Jesus's mouth. And the people then and today gobbled it up. Why does Jesus need a mouthpiece when what he said was recorded?

Matthew 22:35-40....
"And one of them, versed in the Law, tested him by asking: 36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?” 37 He said to him: “‘You must love Jehovah your God with your whole heart and with your whole soul and with your whole mind.’ 38 This is the greatest and first commandment. 39 The second, like it, is this: ‘You must love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 On these two commandments the whole Law hangs, and the Prophets.”

He never used the name Jehovah. He never used any name for God. Every Bible translation I've ever seen, and I've seen plenty, uses the phrase “‘... love the Lord your God ... ".

When was the last time you saw Jews stoning their children?

Maybe their children are so well-behaved it's a moot point. :shrug:See, that's the thing... Jews (and our Jewish friends here correct me if I'm wrong) don't use the Tanakh when it's convenient. It's funny how Christians pass themselves off as knowing more about it than Jews do! :rolleyes:

Gentiles are not under the Mosaic Law and never were. (Romans 2:14-16)

But Lev. 18:22 is intact. I see! Cherry-picking at its finest.

Since there is only one true God and one fake one, any god who has a name that is different from Jehovah (Yahweh) is not the true God. It matters greatly what you call him. He answers to no other name....satan answers to all of them.
"Allah" is the Arabic version of "Lord"....that ambiguous title given to the many nameless gods.

So Muslims worship a fake God? Oy vey, the fat's in the fire now! :eek: Or is it that they're worshiping "Jehovah" but calling him by the wrong name? Is God that passive -aggressive that he won't answer to any name other than Jehovah? o_O Can you see how silly that all looks?

Not true. According to the Tanach, God has never been called "I Am". His name YHWH means "I Will Be What I Will Be" which is not a statement of his existence, but a confirmation that he will BE whatever he needs to be in order to accomplish his will.

From my readings, it's a matter of interpreting the tense of the verb "to be". We can say in English "That would/will be me" and we do say it. It still means "that's me" (that is I" or "it is I" are grammatically correct but a little pretentious and stuffy even for me).

So yeah, "And God said to Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shall you say to the children of Israel, I AM has sent me to you." Exodus 3:14

But that's just grammatical bickering, because it doesn't change that he is self-existing.

Jesus rightly called his Father what any son calls his father. The term "Abba" means "papa"...an intimate term of endearment. But he said he had come to make his Father's name known. (John 17:25-26)

25 “Righteous Father, though the world does not know you, I know you, and they know that you have sent me. 26 I have made you[a] known to them, and will continue to make you known in order that the love you have for me may be in them and that I myself may be in them.” John 17:25-26

'Scuse me, I didn't catch your name?

Exodus 3:15....Moses was told.....
“This is what you are to say to the Israelites, ‘Jehovah the God of your forefathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.’ This is my name forever, and this is how I am to be remembered from generation to generation."

Peter, quoting Joel 2:32, told his fellow Jews “Everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved.” (Acts 2:21) The Tanach has God's name in the Hebrew text.

15 God also said to Moses, “Say to the Israelites, ‘The Lord,[a] the God of your fathers—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob—has sent me to you.’
“This is my name forever,
the name you shall call me
from generation to generation.

Footnotes:
  1. Exodus 3:15 The Hebrew for Lord sounds like and may be related to the Hebrew for I am in verse 14.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus+3:15&version=NIV

Unless you 'call on the name of Jehovah' in faith (i.e. Not just using his name as some kind of formality, but in genuine worship directed at "the only true God" as Jesus acknowledged in John 17:3) there will be no salvation. No other God can save us from what is coming.

That is how I see it, according to what the Bible teaches.
  • Well, the basic issue is I don't need salvation. No one does.
  • You still haven't given any credible basis for the name Jehovah. I'm sorry, it just ain't there. :shrug: However, it's probably more likely to be yehovah or yehovih. To the best of my knowledge Hebrew has no 'J' "dzh" phoneme.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jehovah#Vowel_points_of_יְהֹוָה_and_אֲדֹנָי

Hair-splitting? Yeah, maybe. But the point as I see it is that the name you use for God is no less fake or false than the fake one you say I use for my "fake God".:rolleyes:

So maybe you should just stop telling people that their interpretation of God and his name(s) are wrong and only yours is right? I think that's a good idea.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
How do you know what his name is? Did you read nothing I wrote about it?

I read it....I'm afraid it didn't mean much to me.
Jehovah told us what his name is. That is good enough for me. I accept the English translation.

That's about all I can say to that because geology, archaeology, paleontology and anthropology would vehemently and provably disagree with you.

Not too many agreed with Jesus either...didn't make him wrong.

No enlightened Christian in this modern day believes that is literal, or believes that is God. Or rather, they shouldn't. That is not the God Jesus spoke of. That is not the God of the New Testament.

You don't know much about the Bible do you? You think Jesus served a different God to Moses?

Why would Jesus use the days of Noah to show us what will happen again in the days prior to his second coming and the end of the age? Noah warned the people of his day too....they died because they didn't listen. (Matthew 24:37-39; Matthew 24:14) It was going to happen again.

Why would he tell people that they were going to suffer the same fate as the Pharisees, whom he consigned to "Gehenna"?
In his parable of the sheep and the goats, Jesus tells the sheep why they are saved....
"Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.’"

Then, after telling the goats how they had failed.....
41 Then he will say to those on his left: ‘Go away from me, you who have been cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the Devil and his angels. 42 For I became hungry, but you gave me nothing to eat; and I was thirsty, but you gave me nothing to drink. 43 I was a stranger, but you did not receive me hospitably; naked, but you did not clothe me; sick and in prison, but you did not look after me.’ 44 Then they too will answer with the words: ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison and did not minister to you?’ 45 Then he will answer them, saying: ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of these least ones, you did not do it to me.’ 46 These will depart into everlasting cutting-off, but the righteous ones into everlasting life.”
This is the same Jesus that you say paints a different picture of his Father than in the OT....it is clear that he doesn't.

In fact, I think the Bible speaks of two different Gods... the murderous, vengeful, petty, warlike God that was a deity of the Semitic pantheon, co-opted by the early Hebrews. Who actually weren't "Hebrew" at all. They were Sumerians. "Ur of the Chaldees" was a Sumerian city, and Abra(ha)m was a Sumerian who worshiped the Sumerian gods. All right in the archaeology.

Nonsense. Before the formation of the nation of Israel God was known to the ancient Patriarchs. Abram was such a Patriarch....so was Job.
God had no formal worship at that time because it was in the days before Israel was even formed. It was Abraham's grandson Jacob from whom the 12 tribes descended. The first person identified in the Scriptures as a “Hebrew” is Abraham. (Genesis 14:13)

You're suggesting he contradicted, reversed himself from Matthew 5:18-19. Can't he make up his mind? His work included returning to establish his kingdom. I ain't see no coronation procession yet.

No, you are suggesting that. He said "until" his mission was accomplished, and you are ignoring it.
He is going to return and all the signs are there that it will not be long. Wait and see.....

Paul is not a credible source... he usurped Peter's primacy, and started teaching things Jesus never said, and I dare say never meant to say.

Peter never had primacy. There were 12 apostles, none were greater than the others. Paul reprimanded Peter for showing favoritism to the Jews over his Gentile brothers.....and rightly so.

He never used the name Jehovah. He never used any name for God. Every Bible translation I've ever seen, and I've seen plenty, uses the phrase “‘... love the Lord your God ... ".

There was an occasion mentioned in Luke 4:16-21...
"He [Jesus] then went to Nazʹa·reth, where he had been brought up, and according to his custom on the Sabbath day, he entered the synagogue and stood up to read. 17 So the scroll of the prophet Isaiah was handed to him, and he opened the scroll and found the place where it was written: 18 “Jehovah’s spirit is upon me, because he anointed me to declare good news to the poor. He sent me to proclaim liberty to the captives and a recovery of sight to the blind, to send the crushed ones away free, 19 to preach Jehovah’s acceptable year.” 20 With that he rolled up the scroll, handed it back to the attendant, and sat down; and the eyes of all in the synagogue were intently fixed on him. 21 Then he began to say to them: “Today this scripture that you just heard* is fulfilled.”

The scripture he read was Isaiah 61:1, which from the Tanach reads...
"The spirit of the Lord God was upon me, since the Lord anointed me to bring tidings to the humble, He sent me to bind up the broken-hearted, to declare freedom for the captives, and for the prisoners to free from captivity." אר֛וּחַ אֲדֹנָ֥י יֱהֹוִ֖ה עָלָ֑י יַ֡עַן מָשַׁח֩ יְהֹוָ֨ה אֹתִ֜י לְבַשֵּׂ֣ר עֲנָוִ֗ים שְׁלָחַ֙נִי֙ לַֽחֲבֹ֣שׁ לְנִשְׁבְּרֵי־לֵ֔ב לִקְרֹ֚א לִשְׁבוּיִם֙ דְּר֔וֹר וְלַֽאֲסוּרִ֖ים פְּקַח־קֽוֹחַ:

As you can see the tetragrammaton is clearly in the text.....you think he failed to read the name? If he said he came to make his Father's name known, then he would not have left it out.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
Continued...

It's funny how Christians pass themselves off as knowing more about it than Jews do! :rolleyes:

I think its more a case of Jesus knowing more than Jews do. Do you doubt that?

But Lev. 18:22 is intact. I see! Cherry-picking at its finest.

When God's laws are reiterated for Christians it is hardly cherry picking. Homosexuality was condemned in the OT as well as the NT. God's moral laws applied regardless of gender. Illicit sex was forbidden...reserved only for married heterosexual couples. No one can make the Bible say what it does not.

Is God that passive -aggressive that he won't answer to any name other than Jehovah? o_O Can you see how silly that all looks?

Things can look silly to men....but its what looks silly to God that you have to worry about. He gave us his name and said it was his only name "forever".....argue with him if you wish. I am not sure where it will get you...?

From my readings, it's a matter of interpreting the tense of the verb "to be". We can say in English "That would/will be me" and we do say it. It still means "that's me" (that is I" or "it is I" are grammatically correct but a little pretentious and stuffy even for me).

So yeah, "And God said to Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shall you say to the children of Israel, I AM has sent me to you." Exodus 3:14

But that's just grammatical bickering, because it doesn't change that he is self-existing.

It reads this way in the Jewish Tanach....Exodus 3:14-15...

"God said to Moses, "Ehyeh asher ehyeh (I will be what I will be)," and He said, "So shall you say to the children of Israel, 'Ehyeh (I will be) has sent me to you.'"
And God said further to Moses, "So shall you say to the children of Israel, 'The Lord God of your forefathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.' This is My name forever, and this is how I should be mentioned in every generation. טווַיֹּ֩אמֶר֩ ע֨וֹד אֱלֹהִ֜ים אֶל־משֶׁ֗ה כֹּ֣ה תֹאמַר֘ אֶל־בְּנֵ֣י יִשְׂרָאֵל֒ יְהֹוָ֞ה אֱלֹהֵ֣י אֲבֹֽתֵיכֶ֗ם אֱלֹהֵ֨י אַבְרָהָ֜ם אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִצְחָ֛ק וֵֽאלֹהֵ֥י יַֽעֲקֹ֖ב שְׁלָחַ֣נִי אֲלֵיכֶ֑ם זֶה־שְּׁמִ֣י לְעֹלָ֔ם וְזֶ֥ה זִכְרִ֖י לְדֹ֥ר דֹּֽר: "


Argue with that. God's name never was "I AM".

25 “Righteous Father, though the world does not know you, I know you, and they know that you have sent me. 26 I have made you[a] known to them, and will continue to make you known in order that the love you have for me may be in them and that I myself may be in them.” John 17:25-26

'Scuse me, I didn't catch your name?

ASV..."25 O righteous Father, the world knew thee not, but I knew thee; and these knew that thou didst send me; 26 and I made known unto them thy name, and will make it known; that the love wherewith thou lovedst me may be in them, and I in them."

NASB...“O righteous Father, although the world has not known You, yet I have known You; and these have known that You sent Me; 26 and I have made Your name known to them, and will make it known, so that the love with which You loved Me may be in them, and I in them.”

ESV..."O righteous Father, even though the world does not know you, I know you, and these know that you have sent me. 26 I made known to them your name, and I will continue to make it known, that the love with which you have loved me may be in them, and I in them.”

Mounce Interlinear..."Righteous dikaios Father patēr, although kai the ho world kosmos does ginōskō not ou know ginōskō you sy, I egō · de know ginōskō you sy, and kai these houtos men know ginōskō that hoti you sy sent apostellō me egō. 26 · kai I have made known gnōrizō to them autos · ho your sy name onoma, and kai I will continue to make it known gnōrizō, so hina that the ho love agapē with which hos you have loved agapaō me egō may be eimi in en them autos, and kagō I in en them autos.”

Scuse me.....Looks like your NIV rendering is missing a footnote. :D

  1. "John 17:26 Greek your name" ooops.
Well, the basic issue is I don't need salvation. No one does.

I see.....God has that duly noted I am sure.

You still haven't given any credible basis for the name Jehovah. I'm sorry, it just ain't there. :shrug: However, it's probably more likely to be yehovah or yehovih. To the best of my knowledge Hebrew has no 'J' "dzh" phoneme.

So you'd like all the Bibles with "J" names in them to all be scrapped and a translation with only Hebrew names in it...? You do understand what a translation is? Peter....Pierre.....Pedro....Pieter....Petros......all the same name in different languages. "Jesus" is used for the son without a quibble...but people balk when we use "Jehovah"....go figure. :shrug:

So maybe you should just stop telling people that their interpretation of God and his name(s) are wrong and only yours is right? I think that's a good idea.

Forums such as this are for posting opinions on a range of beliefs....you don't have to like anyone's opinion. I am simply sharing what the Bible teaches to the best of my knowledge about the divine name. I am suggesting that your arguments are not based on any sound knowledge of scripture. And since you identify as a Hindu...what does it matter to you what the Bible says anyway? o_O
 

Jainarayan

ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
Staff member
Premium Member
Wow, you really do have your own version. :eek:
 
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