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What is the Word (John1:1)?

MJFlores

MJFlores

Well-Known Member
LightofTruth said:
The Word was with the Trinity? And the Word was Trinity?

The Word was with the Father, and the Word was Father?

The Word was with the Father and the Holy Spirit and the Word was Father and Holy Spirit?
Click to expand...

tenor.gif


John 1:1 New International Version (NIV)
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

The translation below is so weird and so fake

In the beginning was Jesus, and Jesus was with The Father, Jesus and HS, and Jesus was The Father, Jesus and HS.
 
L

LightofTruth

Well-Known Member
SA Huguenot said:
Mmmm, Jesus was the creator and is God, who was with the Father when He created it all.
Where do you get that Jesus did not create everything?
Click to expand...
MJFlores said:
tenor.gif


John 1:1 New International Version (NIV)
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

The translation below is so weird and so fake

In the beginning was Jesus, and Jesus was with The Father, Jesus and HS, and Jesus was The Father, Jesus and HS.
Click to expand...

Here's what I think most Trinitarians see when they read John 1:1

In the beginning was the Son and the Son was with the Father and the Holy Spirit and the Son was also God just as the Father and the Holy Spirit are God.

Then they will tell you it's a clear as day. But that's not what the text says now is it.
 
SA Huguenot

SA Huguenot

Well-Known Member
LightofTruth said:
Do you realize that "Ghost" is an improper translation made by Trinitarians?
Click to expand...
I never had an issue with that too.
call it what you want.
one thing I know is that you are not allowed to blaspheme against the Ruach Kodesh.
it is an unforgivable sin.
And in this regard one should understand you can only blaspheme against God.
Therefore the Ruach Kodesh, or Holy Spirit, Holy Ghost if you want to, is GOD!
 
SA Huguenot

SA Huguenot

Well-Known Member
MJFlores said:
What is the version of the Bible you are using?
I would be showing a more clearer version.

Isaiah 48:12-16 New International Version (NIV)
“Listen to me, Jacob,
Israel, whom I have called:
I am he;
I am the first and I am the last.
My own hand laid the foundations of the earth,
and my right hand spread out the heavens;
when I summon them,
they all stand up together.

“Come together, all of you, and listen:
Which of the idols has foretold these things?
The Lord’s chosen ally
will carry out his purpose against Babylon;
his arm will be against the Babylonians.
I, even I, have spoken;
yes, I have called him.
I will bring him,
and he will succeed in his mission.

“Come near me and listen to this:

“From the first announcement I have not spoken in secret;
at the time it happens, I am there.”

And now the Sovereign Lord has sent me,
endowed with his Spirit.

giphy.gif


Now where is Jesus Christ here?

Is this because you made an assumption on the last verse?

And now the Sovereign Lord has sent me,
endowed with his Spirit.


So who is the Sovereign Lord?
If it is God then the one sent isn't God.
Click to expand...
hebrew is
Elohim YHWH and His Ruach sent ME!
The Lord God was changed by liberal unitarians in the NIV, yet not a single manuscript on earth gives such a description of sovereign lord!
Even the later DSS has "Adonai YHWH and His Ruach."
The NIV is a coppy of liberal translations as was made by Unitarians.
So lets first go to the Hebrew manuscripts and prove to me that this "Sovreign Lord" is not supposed to be YHWH Elohim!
If you can get that evidence, then I will have to agree that in isaiah 48: 16 the Trinity is not denoted.
However, if you can not find any such evidence, then you must agree that here we have the YHWH creator, who was sent by His Adonai YHWH and the Ruach of YHWH.
So, lets continue on this verses as you promised you will do.
 
MJFlores

MJFlores

Well-Known Member
SA Huguenot said:
Elohim YHWH and His Ruach sent ME!
Click to expand...

giphy.gif


Its not even English. - YHWH RUACH
Sorry there is no Trinity here.
There is no Jesus there
And we are talking about John 1:1

Jesus was not sent during the time of Isaiah.
Jesus was sent much much later
700 years later.
 
SA Huguenot

SA Huguenot

Well-Known Member
Geee Flores,
The videos are very distracting.
But because of the commitment you and I have that we will work through Isaiah 48: 16 word by word, I will tolerate it untill I get a headache.
So, what do you say about the fact that the Hebrew does not say Sovreign Lord, in the translation of:
Adonai YHWH and His Ruach sent ME.
the ME is also clearly denoted in verse 12 as He who are the First and the Last who laid the foundations of the Earth and spanned out the heaven.
I will wait for your reply.
 
SA Huguenot

SA Huguenot

Well-Known Member
MJFlores said:
giphy.gif


Its not even English. - YHWH RUACH
Sorry there is no Trinity here.
There is no Jesus there
And we are talking about John 1:1

Jesus was not sent during the time of Isaiah.
Jesus was sent much much later
700 years later.
Click to expand...
Flores, I told you to check Isaiah 48: 12 and you agreed that we will work through it Word by word.
And, Jesus was from the beginning pal.

he visited Adam, Moses, Abraham.
he says he was with God from the beginning.
I dont want to go into more detail, because you like to take detours.
So, What do you say about the Creator who was sent by Adonai YHWH and the Ruach YHWH?
Do you agree that these verses are a clear denotation if the TRINITY?
isaiah 48 verses 12 to 18
lets do what you prommised!
 
MJFlores

MJFlores

Well-Known Member
SA Huguenot said:
Geee Flores,
The videos are very distracting.
But because of the commitment you and I have that we will work through Isaiah 48: 16 word by word, I will tolerate it untill I get a headache.
So, what do you say about the fact that the Hebrew does not say Sovreign Lord, in the translation of:
Adonai YHWH and His Ruach sent ME.
the ME is also clearly denoted in verse 12 as He who are the First and the Last who laid the foundations of the Earth and spanned out the heaven.
I will wait for your reply.
Click to expand...

Me doesn't mean Jesus.
The prophet Isaiah did not see Jesus in his lifetime.
He did however prophesied about him.

source.gif


Jesus was born 700 years after Isaiah.
 
SA Huguenot

SA Huguenot

Well-Known Member
MJFlores said:
Me doesn't mean Jesus.
The prophet Isaiah did not see Jesus in his lifetime.
He did however prophesied about him.

source.gif


Jesus was born 700 years after Isaiah.
Click to expand...
And here we go again.
Big Pictures, videos that distracts and other questions, except :::::
Remember you told me you will work through Isaiah 48 with me?
Why the 180 turnaround and distractions.
 
MJFlores

MJFlores

Well-Known Member
SA Huguenot said:
Flores, I told you to check Isaiah 48: 12 and you agreed that we will work through it Word by word.
And, Jesus was from the beginning pal.

he visited Adam, Moses, Abraham.
he says he was with God from the beginning.
I dont want to go into more detail, because you like to take detours.
So, What do you say about the Creator who was sent by Adonai YHWH and the Ruach YHWH?
Do you agree that these verses are a clear denotation if the TRINITY?
isaiah 48 verses 12 to 18
lets do what you prommised!
Click to expand...

Who do you think invented the Trinity doctrine?

The first defense of the doctrine of the Trinity was in the early 3rd century by the early church father Tertullian. He explicitly defined the Trinity as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit and defended his theology against "Praxeas", though he noted that the majority of the believers in his day found issue with his doctrine.
Trinity - Wikipedia

Do you even wonder why on the first and second centuries, they did not believe in the Trinity?

1 Corinthians 8:5-7 New International Version (NIV)
For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”), yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

But not everyone possesses this knowledge. Some people are still so accustomed to idols that when they eat sacrificial food they think of it as having been sacrificed to a god, and since their conscience is weak, it is defiled.
 
D

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
SA Huguenot said:
hebrew is
Elohim YHWH and His Ruach sent ME!
The Lord God was changed by liberal unitarians in the NIV, yet not a single manuscript on earth gives such a description of sovereign lord!
Even the later DSS has "Adonai YHWH and His Ruach."
The NIV is a coppy of liberal translations as was made by Unitarians.
So lets first go to the Hebrew manuscripts and prove to me that this "Sovreign Lord" is not supposed to be YHWH Elohim!
If you can get that evidence, then I will have to agree that in isaiah 48: 16 the Trinity is not denoted.
However, if you can not find any such evidence, then you must agree that here we have the YHWH creator, who was sent by His Adonai YHWH and the Ruach of YHWH.
So, lets continue on this verses as you promised you will do.
Click to expand...
Greetings, I don't believe the NIV verse John 1:1 to be wrong.

Are you saying it's wrong?
 
D

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
John 1:1
Is calling the pre-incarnate Jesus, God.

So,
Jehovah=God
jesus=God
John 1:10

That is why the name there is God, and isn't the 'pater', or father, or even the Lord.

Jesus is the Lord, 'Lord with us'.
 
Last edited:
D

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
Speaking of which John 1:10
Thusly tells us that Jesus is the 'Lord', already Matthew 1:22-24
And doesn't 'become' divine at baptism.
Hence why the Magi worshipped Him, of course.
 
L

LightofTruth

Well-Known Member
Joh_1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh_1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Joh_2:22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.
Joh_4:41 And many more believed because of his own word;
Joh_4:50 Jesus saith unto him, Go thy way; thy son liveth. And the man believed the word that Jesus had spoken unto him, and he went his way.
Joh_5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
Joh_5:38 And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.
Joh_8:31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
Joh_8:37 I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.
Joh_8:43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
Joh_10:35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
Joh_12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
Joh_14:24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.
Joh_15:3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
Joh_15:20 Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.
Joh_15:25 But this cometh to pass, that the word might be fulfilled that is written in their law, They hated me without a cause.
Joh_17:6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.
Joh_17:14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
Joh_17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
Joh_17:20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

Above is every occurrence of logos in John's gospel.

What becomes clear is that logos belongs to the Father and God of Jesus and Jesus has brought the logos to the people. To hear the logos of Jesus was to hear the logos of the Father who sent him.
 
D

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
LightofTruth said:
Joh_1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Joh_1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Joh_2:22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.
Joh_4:41 And many more believed because of his own word;
Joh_4:50 Jesus saith unto him, Go thy way; thy son liveth. And the man believed the word that Jesus had spoken unto him, and he went his way.
Joh_5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
Joh_5:38 And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.
Joh_8:31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
Joh_8:37 I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.
Joh_8:43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
Joh_10:35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
Joh_12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
Joh_14:24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.
Joh_15:3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
Joh_15:20 Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.
Joh_15:25 But this cometh to pass, that the word might be fulfilled that is written in their law, They hated me without a cause.
Joh_17:6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.
Joh_17:14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
Joh_17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
Joh_17:20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

Above is every occurrence of logos in John's gospel.

What becomes clear is that logos belongs to the Father and God of Jesus and Jesus has brought the logos to the people. To hear the logos of Jesus was to hear the logos of the Father who sent him.
Click to expand...
Logos means what again?
 
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