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Science IS religion
- Thread starter dad
- Start date
dad
Undefeated
History records long life spans as well as spirits among men. The bible tells of fast growing trees, long life spans and a different weather system, as well as spirits marrying people on earth.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
No, it doesn't You are now conflating myth with history. And of course as you already know the early books of the Bible are just myths as well. Nor is there any historical record of different weather systems.
Of course weather would not even effect the evidence that you are complaining about. Once more you refute yourself.
NewGuyOnTheBlock
Cult Survivor/Fundamentalist Pentecostal Apostate
My objection is not that you present this as a tantalizing possibility of the nature of our universe. My objection is that you bank on this as a certainty, and do so with no evidence to support it. You state (as well as scientists) that we can not "know" or be for certain that laws of nature are the same at every point in our universe (which is why science calls it an "assumption" rather than a "theory", "hypothesis", "fact" or "law"). But if that is true, you can not "know" that there are (or were) times or places where the natural laws behaved differently within our universe.
Putting the cart before the horse. Before you can stipulate that we can not know anything "before or after the flood", you must first show the existence of the flood to begin with. Attempts at doing this have failed to be convincing.
The Bible is not history.
History does not confirm that nature was different in the past.
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
When someone claims that anyone who accepts the basic ToE isn't a true Christian, much like the "not a true Scotsman" fallacy, they are doing something that Jesus told us not to do, namely "... judge ye not...".
The ToE simply does not go against Judeo-Christian beliefs as the real issue for both observant Jews and Christians is whether God created all, and we do believe that. When someone slips into judgmentalism, they actually are undermining the teachings of both faiths by their willingness to judge others, often matched with self-centered nastiness as we've repeatedly seen with some here at RF. I left my fundamentalist Protestant church 50 years ago because of this kind of anti-science bigotry.
The ToE simply does not go against Judeo-Christian beliefs as the real issue for both observant Jews and Christians is whether God created all, and we do believe that. When someone slips into judgmentalism, they actually are undermining the teachings of both faiths by their willingness to judge others, often matched with self-centered nastiness as we've repeatedly seen with some here at RF. I left my fundamentalist Protestant church 50 years ago because of this kind of anti-science bigotry.
sooda
Veteran Member
Christians are NOT required to reject science and education or to accept myths without questions. BLIND faith is for dogs, not human beings.
gnostic
The Lost One
History doesn't say anything about spirits being true, only that people believe in such things in religions and in primitive superstitions.
Nothing in history confirm or deny the existence of spirits.
What people write about, don't necessarily mean they are writing history. They also write about and tell of stories myths, fables and folklores, stories that define nature, and the Bible is example of such belief.
Talking donkey and talking serpent, don't exist, except in myths, fables, folklore and modern fictions (as well as in TVs and movies).
You seriously have lost grip of reality if you think talking serpent and donkey are true history.
gnostic
The Lost One
Yes, generally shorter.
Those who usually live longer, were usually from noble or royal families, as long as they can avoid diseases, being killed by accident or in battles, or assassinations.
sooda
Veteran Member
Aesop was a Greek slave circa 625 BC who wrote over 600 animal fables to teach basic truths.
If we are created in God's image, why are we required to be bloody stupid and reject science and education for fundamentalism?
sooda
Veteran Member
The Bible exaggerates everything.. from population numbers to the grandiosity of Solomon to the "conquests" of Joshua.. All has been proven false. But, if you want to be a Christian, you have to reject the brain God gave you and be half a person.. braindead and compliant.
gnostic
The Lost One
I find the ironies that creationists can reject other religions and their stories to be false, distorted or exaggerated, and yet their own stories in the Bible are exception.
For instance, dad believed that is very adamant that the talking serpent or donkey to be true, and historical, in the Bible, and yet the only evidences we have that such abilities to talk in human language are only found in myths, fables, folklores, fairytales, in children stories and modern fiction.
The reality is very different, and the biblical stories, from creation to King Solomon, are very far from being historical.
dad
Undefeated
No, they lived about a thousand years. Whatever period you are talking about is more recent.
dad
Undefeated
I consider Scripture certain. The only issue is what science knows that could relate to this.
I actually have not gotten much into that particular aspect of the debate. The issue with deep space is whether time and space as we know it here on earth (and fishbowl) is the very same or not, and if science knows. That is important because all the distances and long ages of billions of years require uniformity. I have avoided the matter of what laws might exist out there, because when we see the light from out there it all seems to obey the same laws. There is no real need to deal with whether some additional laws or forces might also be out there that are not here, or etc etc. It is a bit like hunting a deer. If we shoot the deer in the woods and it dies, then there is no need to go cut off it's head or shoot it a dozen times or etc because it is already dead. Likewise, with the cosmological theories on deep space, if time is different, that 'kills' the whole standard model and distances and sizes and etc etc etc. There is no need to then go and 'cut off the deer's head' because it is already dead!
On earth, the issue is the forces and laws that existed long ago. We don't know what they were. Out in far space that is not the issue, time is.
Science cannot show the existence or non existence of the flood. Period. Either claim is one based on faith. Since science is out of the picture in that debate, we need to look around and see if there are any other evidences in the world, such as ancient records, common stories of a flood of some sort, Scripture records, etc.
If you wish to limit yourself only to science, then it is easy. You may not know either way! Just admit ignorance. No discussion needed. Either you show the real science that demonstrates one way or the other there was or was not a flood, or science is out of the loop. Sidelined.
There is a long history of doubters of the bible being silenced with archaeological finds actually. There is no doubt that many of the characters of the New testament were actual people. There is no evidence any of the characters in the old testament were not real. The records were not just word of mouth of individuals telling stories. The records were carefully kept by a NATION! A nation that happened to kill any false prophets by the way!
[/QUOTE] False. The long life spans recorded in Sumer (despite any inaccuracy of pagan records) do tell us that people lived very much longer. The fact that spirits were a part of life also show that nature was not as now. (example, Egypt lists the early kings as gods or spirit beings)
dad
Undefeated
Actually spirits are very much a part of early history. The first kings of Egypt for example were said to be spirits.
The prevalence of spirits is such that it is an intricate part of ancient history.
You were not there when Balam's animal saw the angel. You have no science to offer on the matter. No knowledge. No witnesses. Nothing. Only a totally uninformed opinion.
The way Adam communicated is not known. Some suspect it was a form of telepathy that was the same as verbal communication. In the case of the donkey meeting the angel, the creator of donkeys and man can alter a creature temporarily, or have an angel speak it's thoughts directed from it's mouth area...or etc etc. Your attempts to limit the Almighty are laughable.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
One has to be either braindead or believe that God is a liar. Assuming that dad is not braindead I often wonder why he worships a lying God.
ratiocinator
Lightly seared on the reality grill.
Is this some sort of joke? After all your demands for evidence from science - that you were actually given, and then ignored - you go on about these silly fables. Where is your evidence? You have no science to offer on the matter. No knowledge. No witnesses. Nothing. Only a totally uninformed opinion.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
But he is willing to make these claims endlessly. His only tactics are denial and shifting the burden of proof.
dad
Undefeated
Link!!?? You seem to be ignoring the fact that no evidence was given. Provide the link so we can again expose it for religious twaddle and not evidence!
ratiocinator
Lightly seared on the reality grill.
You are bearing false witness again. We had a long exchange in which you totally ignored both evidence and logic regarding dating methods and I didn't have to scroll back far to find other people providing you links. The evidence for evolution is not a secret, it's really easy to find and to claim it doesn't exist at all is, quite apart from being obviously false as anybody can check, to accuse most of the world's specialists in multiple disciplines, may of whom are Christians, of being liars.
And once again you've ignored my request that you provide even the slightest hint of a morsel of evidence to support your claims. It is blatant hypocrisy to endlessly demand evidence from others, then ignore it, and refuse to provide evidence for your own claims.
Matthew 7:5
Exodus 20:16