Catholic and Protestant faith....

Scott1 · Dec 8, 2004

What do we have in common? What are the major doctrinal differences?

Can there be unity? What can we agree on?

Linus and I had a wonderful chat going on about the origin of sin in humanity on another thread, and I would love more input.

About all I could gather is that we both agree that we are saved by the Grace of God.

Anything else?

Peace,
Scott

Green Gaia · Dec 8, 2004

*The Unitarian peeks her head in, then backs away slowly*

Mister Emu · Dec 8, 2004

Hey,

Well I agree with Rome pretty much.

I don't agree with Papal authority, Mary's immaculate conception, and I believe she had children after Jesus with Joseph. Except for Papal authority I don't believe there is anything that would stop a reunification. In fact if I had one wish that would probably be it.

Yerda · Dec 9, 2004

I wonder why some christians title themselves such, when their only objective is to battle with other followers of Christ. Not many Irish people here granted, but what's the point in all the separation and dispute if you believe in the same god, Jesus, and heaven?

Linus · Dec 9, 2004

I think the major difference is what Mister Emu touched on in his post, that being Papal authority, the clergy, and sacred tradition. Protestants rely mostly on personal study and interpretations, while I think the catholics rely on the church for their primary docrtinal teachings (correct me if Im wrong, please).

Solly · Dec 9, 2004

There are differences, on the one hand matters such as the place of mary, the preisthood etc, on the other the philosophical underpinning of the RCC, its sacramental Thomism, which places it closer to the Anglicans, Lutherans and EOs. However, i have been following the justification debate recently, and see that common ground is a lot more prominant than it used to be. For me, the major stumbling block is the aforementioned sacramentalism. I just don't see that as a Biblical concept. But i no longer write off the RCCs and il Papa as being antiChrist...

Scott1 · Dec 9, 2004

Mister Emu said:
In fact if I had one wish that would probably be it.

Amen to that!

What is your specific "beef" with the Papacy?

Linus said:
Protestants rely mostly on personal study and interpretations, while I think the catholics rely on the church for their primary docrtinal teachings

That's a hard one to explain.... if your personal study and interpretations lead you to believe that God was an alien from Mars and you interpret the Book of Matthew as a mystical McDonald's menu...... would that be ok in the Church of Christ? See what I'm getting at?

solly said:
. For me, the major stumbling block is the aforementioned sacramentalism. I just don't see that as a Biblical concept.

It's hard to discuss a generalization like that.... care to pick something in particular.... the Eucharist, perhaps.... and tell me why you don't like it?

solly said:
But i no longer write off the RCCs and il Papa as being antiChrist...

Well, it's nice to hear that.......

Peace in Christ,
Scott

jewscout · Dec 9, 2004

**pulls a Maize and the jew pokes head in**

argggg i've been spotted RUN AWAY RUN AWAY!! BETTER PART OF VALOR! BETTER PART OF VALOR!

Scott1 · Dec 9, 2004

I hope everyone agrees...... we love our brothers and sisters in other faiths, and even those who don't have faith........ but the Jews share a special place close to our hearts!

jewscout · Dec 9, 2004

SOGFPP said:
I hope everyone agrees...... we love our brothers and sisters in other faiths, and even those who don't have faith........ but the Jews share a special place close to our hearts!

awwww

yea! Thanks Scott!

Solly · Dec 9, 2004

SOGFPP said:
It's hard to discuss a generalization like that.... care to pick something in particular.... the Eucharist, perhaps.... and tell me why you don't like it?

It's a generalisation, because it's a general thing. Catholics inhabit a sacramental world where 'grace' is mediated by people and things, blessings, laying on of hands, water, oil, communion wafer. Buildings, things, and people can be holy, like relics, churches, altars, utensils, etc. This is not the Protestant way of looking at the world, although some lean that way, like Lutherans. The Eucharist, and its actual conversion, hoc est corpus meum, is the main case in point, and in the English Reformation formed the point of dispute, not the doctrine of Justification by faith. But the same applies to baptism, chrism, extreme unction etc. Some characterise it as an almost majical view of life, although RCC would probably say miraculous. there is an underlying philosophy to the RCC and EO view that did not carry over into protestantism.

Scott1 · Dec 9, 2004

Ok solly.... I get ya now...

Anything we agree on in your view?

Ronald · Dec 9, 2004

SOGFPP said:
I hope everyone agrees...... we love our brothers and sisters in other faiths, and even those who don't have faith........ but the Jews share a special place close to our hearts!

Scott, don't you think the church was a bit slow in admitting this?

Scott1 · Dec 9, 2004

Yes, Ronald, I do. Glad they got it right now.

Scott

Linus · Dec 9, 2004

SOGFPP said:
What is your specific "beef" with the Papacy?

Personally, I just don't see the Biblical authority for it. I know that there is the passage in Matthew 16 about Peter, but I don't think that justifies having any sort of "Vicar of Christ."

SOGFPP said:
If your personal study and interpretations lead you to believe that God was an alien from Mars and you interpret the Book of Matthew as a mystical McDonald's menu...... would that be ok in the Church of Christ? See what I'm getting at?

I do. And I realize that that is the reason we have so many denominations and interpretaions and doctrines today. But that is is also the reason why you have to be diligent in study and always read the Bible with an open mind. It isn't just personal study, group studies are excellent for correction and reproof. If you truly study the Bible, and work diligently to understand it with an open mind, then the message will come to you.

Scott1 · Dec 9, 2004

Linus said:
If you truly study the Bible, and work diligently to understand it with an open mind, then the message will come to you.

So, the knowledge of God's will is obtained by our human understanding?

What evidence do you have that the "message will come to you."... or is this not a Biblical obervation?

Scott

** edit: Read this when you have a minute to see what I'm getting at **

logos · Dec 9, 2004

Linus said:
Personally, I just don't see the Biblical authority for it. I know that there is the passage in Matthew 16 about Peter, but I don't think that justifies having any sort of "Vicar of Christ."

Understandable, but it is not just Mt 16:18-19. There is also the fact that in Lk 22:32 Peter is told he will strengthen the faith of his people. Jn 21:17 he is given Christ's flock as a chief shepherd. Acts 2:14, he preached to the Apostles on Pentecost, what Catholics see as the "birthday of the Church." In essence leading the Apostles on the inception of the Church. Also, in Acts 15:7 he led the first council in Jerusalem. Also Jesus recalls the allusion to the keys and its importance in Is 22:21-22. The keys were always a symbol of authority given to the chief official of the Kingdom of David. There was also in this a dynastic succession which was always replaced by someone else who followed, when those in that office no longer occupied it.

These are just a few biblical references on papal authority, there are many others.

Scott1 · Dec 10, 2004

Great post logos,

One of my favorite Biblical proofs for Peter is Matthew 17:24-27.... sometimes things just jump out at you, and this meant more to me personally than Mt 16 did. Wierd, huh?

Matt. 17:24-25 - the tax collector approaches Peter for Jesus' tax. Peter is the spokesman for Jesus. He is the Vicar of Christ.

Matt. 17:26-27 - Jesus pays the half-shekel tax with one shekel, for both Jesus and Peter. Peter is Christ's representative on earth.

Dadball · Dec 10, 2004

SOGFPP said:
So, the knowledge of God's will is obtained by our human understanding?

What evidence do you have that the "message will come to you."... or is this not a Biblical obervation?

Ever try this? LECTIO DIVINA

I have tried to practice Lectio Divina over the last 2 years. I'm still a beginner, but there are times I feel like the Holy Spirit reads the scripture to me. I have read the Bible for information. This practice leads to spiritual formation. I recommend this and other spiritual disciplines to help on you walk with Christ.
http://www.valyermo.com/ld-art.html

Scott1 · Dec 11, 2004

Dadball said:
Ever try this? LECTIO DIVINA

I've tried it.....

Rev. M. Basil Pennington, OCSO, Lectio Divina. Renewing the Ancient
Practice of Praying the Scriptures. (Crossroad, NY, 1998) ISBN 0-8245-
1779-2 (hardcover); ISBN 0-8245-1736-9 (paperback).... in case you'd like a great book about it.

Thanks for your post.... I will post something in the Catholic forum for anyone who wants to learn more.

Peace,
Scott

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