Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
It's what happens when you believe in fluff.
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Not only does god allow suffering, but he allows cures for said suffering. That's a contradiction!
- Thread starter The Transcended Omniverse
- Start date
I think it’s a good post but it doesn’t take into account our evolution as a species on this planet that our purpose here is to ‘carry forward an ever advancing civilisation’. (Baha’u’llah)
In our evolution there’s going to be periods of ‘crises and victory’ which we learn from to help us advance.
Because we lack ‘vision’ it can all seem mundane and pointless but if you look at the stages we have already traversed there is direction. From the family to the tribe then city then city state and nation we have successively and successfully evolved to a point where world unification is the next stage in our development.
After that no doubt we will venture out into the stars. We are an ever advancing, ever evolving species.
In our evolution there’s going to be periods of ‘crises and victory’ which we learn from to help us advance.
Because we lack ‘vision’ it can all seem mundane and pointless but if you look at the stages we have already traversed there is direction. From the family to the tribe then city then city state and nation we have successively and successfully evolved to a point where world unification is the next stage in our development.
After that no doubt we will venture out into the stars. We are an ever advancing, ever evolving species.
Sand Dancer
Crazy Cat Lady
When the ancients in the middle east wanted to institute monotheism, they somehow had to morph many gods into one, including evil. The Bible reflects that. Before the NT was written, Zoroastrianism answered that problem with the introduction of a devil, who does evil. The only problem is that the Bible writers didn't change the verse saying that Yahweh created evil. Oh yeah, he created it but the devil was in charge of causing it. Yeah, that's it!
I find in the King James that Yahweh (God) creating evil is Not synonymous with wrongdoing at Isaiah 45:7.
The ' evil ' is the calamity for the wicked in that the wicked will be 'destroyed forever' as per Psalms 92:7; Isaiah 26:10,14.
Such calamity 'evil ' was used on such rebellious wrongdoing for the sake of protecting the righteous ones.
Yahweh (God) does Not act without first warning people as per 2 Peter 3:9; Amos 3:7
Thus, rebellious people bring ' evil ' (calamity) upon themselves.
Seems to me that the ^ above ^ post does Not bring into the picture the challenge found at Job 2:4-5.
Satan Not only challenged Job, but by way of extension that challenge includes ALL of us.
' Touch our 'flesh' (loose physical health) and we would Not serve the God of the Bible.
Both Job and Jesus under very adverse conditions proved Satan a liar, and so can we.
There is a reason why we are all invited to pray the invitation of Revelation 22:20 for Jesus to come !
Come and bring ' healing ' to earth's nations as mentioned at Revelation 22:2.
During Jesus' coming 1,000-year reign over Earth: No one will say, "I am sick...." as per Isaiah 33:24.
Earth and its people will be as described in Isaiah 35th chapter.
Bird123
Well-Known Member
Is it really more loving to raise kids totally dependent, uneducated, then maybe the kids complain because no matter how they have it made they will find something else to want and cry you deliver it? Maybe, it's better to raise strong, wise,educated children who can stand on their own two feet regardless if anyone was there to supply the fix.
Which is the more Intelligent way? Which is the more Loving way? I know which way I would raise my children and you can bet they would be capable when I was through. Nurturing ignorance is not Love.
Yes, God can place obstacles in our path. This is not to hurt. One can choose to give up or one can choose to Discover where the new path will lead. Isn't it time you looked up at the possibilities instead of giving up?
I know a man who is a quadriplegic. Should this man give up? He chose to move forward on what he could do. This man is one of the most remarkable men I have ever met. You can feel his energy, his love and kindness. He lifts every soul he contacts. When people are around him, they get Happy and become very positive. He points them upward to the possibilities.
Since we are Spiritual beings in our true natures, after a while, people do not see his physical handicap. They feel who he really is. Sure, he might be limited physically but nothing holds him back.
If this man had never became a quadriplegic, would he be the same person today? Would he have grown so much to be able to lift so many people forward toward that Higher Level? I think not.
Very few things are one way. Out of everything bad, something good will come from it. It's something you might never see if you focus on one thing.
Finally, no matter what happens, God has fixed it all ahead of time. WE are all eternal. Our physical bodies have a time limit.
Life is about Living. Life is a Journey. Sometimes the roughest road will end up with the Best View. I sure would not give up before I reached the end. See? There is still time for you to Create!!
Oh yes, I knew a art painter who said it's the screw ups that make him a better painter. When he screws up, he has to figure out how to make it look right again. Adversity is not the time to quit. It's the time to Discover solutions.
MonkeyFire
Well-Known Member
@ The Transcended Omniverse
Wrong.
No one can save you but yourself... free yourself from your own bigoted anger... and end your own suffering.
Wrong.
No one can save you but yourself... free yourself from your own bigoted anger... and end your own suffering.
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The Transcended Omniverse
Well-Known Member
I had a devastating, emotional crisis in my life. It was mental suffering for me, I was in a very horrible, miserable state, and I could no longer see anything in my life as good, beautiful, or worth living for. It would be like someone who lost a loved one, and no longer sees beauty in life. I had no choice but to endure through all this suffering, since I couldn't just will myself out of it. But, I did get help. Still, it took an extremely long time to fully recover from this crisis, and it would've been loving, and very generous, if god, or these heavenly beings, instantly healed my mental suffering.
This mental suffering was nothing more than a waste of my life, and I didn't gain anything worthy of all that suffering. So, why allow me to go through all that pointless, unnecessary suffering, when god has the power to instantly heal me of it? But, there'd be one thing worthy of obtaining out of all that suffering. Any forms of character growth I obtained out of all that suffering wouldn't have been worthy on their own. I must obtain something else in addition to anything else I obtained through all that suffering, and that something else would be seeing goodness, beauty, and worth in things on a whole new level, beyond anything imaginable.
Obtaining this would've been the ultimate reward that would've been worth all that suffering. As I said before, during this miserable struggle, I could no longer see goodness, beauty, and worth in things. That's why I would've expected to have gained this reward. But, I didn't gain it, which means all that suffering was pointless and unnecessary. As a matter of fact, I don't think I've even obtained a small level of this reward. Besides, there could've been a better way for me to have obtained this reward.
I heard heaven is a place where we have positive experiences on a whole new level, beyond our wildest dreams. These positive experiences include the experience of love, joy, seeing goodness, beauty, and worth in things, etc. So, that means I should've remained in heaven, rather than down here on Earth, where I was left to go through all that pointless suffering. The goal in life is to have as much powerful, profound, positive experiences as possible, and heaven is the place for this.
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Bird123
Well-Known Member
We all have the power to choose what we value in life. We can focus and value the hurt, the suffering,the pain and maybe heartache,Or we can choose to value the goodness, the priceless things like good friends, a beautiful spring day, the laughter of children, a Hug and that which lifts the spirit.
Example: I am a lucky man for I have had True Love in my life. It was so Wonderful, however she developed lung cancer and she never smoked a cigarette in her life. She died of lung cancer.
Yes, one can wake up in extreme pain. So I had a choice. I could choose to value the loss of her, moped, cry and make those around me miserable, maybe give up and want to quit living OR I could value the remarkable and priceless time I had with her. Which is the Best choice?
I keep her in my heart now. My life could never have been the same without her. Life is about Living, Learning, Growing and moving Forward. One should choose not to allow anything to prevent moving forward. It is the only way to Win.
Maybe this is the lesson you are learning. Yes, you are seeing one side, however widen your view. There is always a path leading forward. Keep you eyes on the prize. It is the only way to Win.
Now, pick yourself up. Stop looking backward. Find the path and keep moving forward. One day you will realize just what the lesson was and what you learned.
You are wanting God or anybody to fix this for you, however you just must see that you are the only one who can fix all this. No one can do it for you. The Choice has always been yours. YOU CAN REACH THE LIGHT! You are Stronger than you realize.
Yes, so much of everything is in the mind. I speak so much of choosing because that is where the Power comes from. Did you know that Happiness is no more than a Choice? That is why no matter what happens I will be Happy. even in the midst of chaos, pain and turmoil I will be Happy. Everyone has the power to do the very same thing. Stop saying I can't. Just say I CAN! You are the Answer.
You have all my Love and Kindness!!
The Transcended Omniverse
Well-Known Member
Happiness can only be a positive emotion, and positive emotions can be taken away, due to brain damage, a mental illness that's known to take them away (such as clinical depression), or an emotional crisis. I think people live by the wrong definition of happiness, and they think it's the right definition. Happiness can only be a transient feeling (such as the pleasant emotion you feel from doing your favorite hobbies). Nothing can convince me otherwise, since this has been my own personal experience. I'd need a new personal experience to convince me that there's another way I can experience happiness.
Also, happiness can only be a positive experience (a state of mind). I don't agree that happiness is just a choice. Let's pretend that someone helped humanity, and made the best of his life, while in nothing but a negative state of mind (a state of mind where he had nothing but a negative perspective, such as a miserable, hateful perspective). I wouldn't define him as a happy person, just because he made many kind, loving choices in his life. So, happiness has to be a positive state of mind/a positive perspective, and that state of mind can only be a transient feeling.
Lastly, if you're not experiencing fear or rage, then you can't be a fearful or enraged person, even if you acted frightened or enraged. Fear and rage are emotions. So, this says emotions create the inner character, whether that be a loving character, a fearful character, an enraged character, a sad character, and even a happy character. So, if you wish to be a happy person, then you need to feel a happy emotion, just as how, if you wish to be a fearful or enraged person, then you need to feel fear or rage. That means happiness isn't just a choice, and you can't just be a happy person by sheer will.
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Muffled
Jesus in me
I believe God is fair. It may not be a matter of being worthy but a matter of punishment for sin. Certainly you current attitude towards God seems sinful.
Bird123
Well-Known Member
There is so much you do not understand.
A person has two halves, a Feeling half and a Reason half. One should always lead with the Reason half. Why? If you lead with the feeling half you could get lost in a sea of emotions. It is never fun being lost. Isn't being lost much of what you have been experiencing?
When you pretend that a person helping others with a negative state of mind is not happy, you simply do not understand. This person might start out unhappy but will not stay unhappy. Why? The goodness they give others will return to bring that happiness.
There is a waitress who makes a fortune in tips. She does this by always being happy and joyful around others. People are empathic. They feel her joy and soon it rubs off on them. They come in grumpy but leave laughing.
I asked her how can so be so happy and bubbly all the time. She said when she is down, she just starts acting happily and bubbly whether she feels that way or not. She says it isn't long before she actually becomes happy and bubbly in reality.
Do you understand? When some people get hurt, the embrace the pain. They choose to make that pain more important than anything. This just leads to more hurt and more pain. They need to change but can be very stubborn. Do you know what happens to a person that needs to change but refuses? They hurt and hurt until they hurt so badly that they realize that it is easier to change. Is this going to be you?
What happens to a person who does the opposite? When this person hurts, they might hurt but they do not value it. Just like the waitress, they walk away from the hurt and value the light, the happiness, the goodness. They even pretend until they reach there.
Which path is the best?
You keep waiting for outside forces to Make you happy when it has always been in your hands. It has always been up to you.
Is any of this reaching you or maybe you are choosing to be stubborn?
It has always been in your hands. Choose!
The Transcended Omniverse
Well-Known Member
Since I was in a very horrible, miserable state during that emotional crisis, nothing I did, or thought, could bring me feelings of happiness. That's because it requires a healthy, functional brain to experience those feelings. If, for example, someone had chronic, clinical depression, he wouldn't be able to feel any happiness, no matter what he does or thinks, since his brain isn't working properly. He might be able to experience those feelings on seldom occasions. But, for the most part, he's going to remain in a chronic state of depression.
As for my emotional crisis, it was so severe that I had a chronic, 24/7 absence of my positive emotions, which means I couldn't have any happiness whatsoever for a very long time. The only way my feelings of happiness could return would be my psyche fully recovering on its own from the crisis. My psyche reaching a state of full recovery is how my brain returns back to its normal, healthy, happy state. This whole recovery process was a long term process, and I just waited patiently the whole way through, since nothing I did, or thought, could make me feel any happiness.
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Bird123
Well-Known Member
There is so much you do not Understand. Do you see what happens when you are leading with emotions. You can become lost until someone talks you out or until you calm down enough to start thinking again.
Even now, you are leading with emotions for you do not hear a word I have said. Why? Because you are Feeling your way through life.
You are hurt and that is all you see. You are angry and want someone to Blame. Doesn't that make it hard to Understand what is really going on?
You still have that same old choice. Emotionally you can Stew and Stew, be unhappy, blaming God and the world for your problems Or you can work at the only thing that really matters. Aren't Results the only thing that counts? It's going to take much more than feeling and complaining to get results.
Focus on Results and nothing else.
I don't want to hurt your feelings but you remind me of a small spoiled child who wants everything their way and for everybody to do it all for you.
Without this adversity at your door, how are you going to learn that it isn't up to God, or the world around you to solve your problems. Each person will learn so many lessons with the struggle to find resolution. You are not any different.
You can cry, jump up and down having a fit, but that will do you no good. The only solution is to solve the problem yourself. You know, you are well capable of doing just that. Take a day off and start THINKING of what you can do to make things better. When you put Thinking first you might find those problems get solved a whole lot better than merely complaining about them.
I understand more than you realize. All God's children are a bit spoiled. Between lives when we go to God, we experience God's Unconditional Love that heals all hurt. WE all know God can fix everything. On the other hand, Unconditional Love always does what is best for the other, and having weak, dependent,helpless, uneducated children can never be what is best for them.
I would not count on God and the world fixing it all for you, however all the knowledge and help will be around you on your journey.
Finally, a person can be their own worst enemy. So much of what happens we bring on ourselves. Example: There was this elderly lady who lived by herself. She was a real nice lady but so old it was hard for her to get around. Driving by one day I noticed some shingles were missing from her roof so I stopped in to help.
The elderly lady was glad to see me and very happy for my help. I told her that if you hear some noises on your roof it's just me walking around and nailing down new shingles. She said OK.
When I finished and went to talk with this elderly lady, she was in very very bad shape. Her blood pressure was through the roof. I sat her down and started talking with her. After a while she calmed down and her blood pressure came back to normal.
I asked her what happen. She said when she heard those footsteps on the roof that she felt I was going to fall off that roof and get hurt. Emotionally she talked herself into a serious medical condition.
It's only when she started thinking did things get better. Strong emotions block out the thinking half. That is why angry people feel bad at why they did after they cool down and start thinking. See, it has always been better for a person to Think then Act rather than just reacting.
Lead with the thinking. We will keep emotions around because what is life without them. We just won't let them get out of hand.
Whew!! Well, that's the way I see it.
The Transcended Omniverse
Well-Known Member
I already said earlier I was trying find ways to help me recover from this emotional crisis, such as researching therapeutic methods. So, it's not like I was just sitting around, complaining about god not healing me. Even though I was finding ways to help myself, I'm also discussing certain topics in the meantime, such as the topic of god, and him allowing suffering. If god does exist, then it would've been generous, and loving, for him to just instantly heal my mind, rather than allowing me to go through all that suffering. I'm already a person who looks out for himself anyway, which means I'm already a self-dependent person.
I'm not a spoiled person either, and I behave very maturely. Many people like me as an individual, they think I'm mature, and very polite. In regards to helping myself, if I was in a situation where there's no cure for my problems, and I'd have to find ways to help myself, then that's fine. I'd have no issue with this, wouldn't complain, and I'd find ways to help myself. But, god has the power to instantly heal my suffering, which is why I take issue with him not healing my misery, and that's why I complain. Just because he'd heal my misery doesn't mean I'd turn out to be a childish person who complains because people aren't doing things for me all the time.
Also, positive emotions are the only good and beautiful things in life, since they're the only way we can see goodness and beauty in things, which means nothing else is good and beautiful, such as the life lessons we learn. Actually, those lessons can be good and beautiful from our perspective. But, only once we feel that way about them, and those feelings would be positive emotions. Since positive emotions are the only good and beautiful things in life, then the goal would be to have as much of them as possible, and to have as little misery and unhappiness as possible. Given this, there was really no point in allowing me to go through all that misery.
It would've been better for god to just heal my mind, which would've instantly restored my positive emotions. What's important is that I have my positive emotions intact, and the more happiness I have throughout my life, the better of a life I've lived. That's why I think miserable struggles are pointless. But, if said struggles would've resulted in me acquiring a level of happiness throughout my life that's much greater than what I could've obtained otherwise, then my struggles weren't pointless. But, I didn't. Therefore, my struggles were pointless.
Lastly, if I said positive thinking is the only good and beautiful thing in life, since it's the only way we can see goodness and beauty in things, then I think many people can understand this. But, it's actually the positive emotions that allow us to see goodness and beauty in things, and not the positive thoughts alone. Positive thoughts need to make us feel positive in order to give us a positive perspective. Without positive emotions, it's no way to live, and we can't see anything positive in life. So, that's why we need our positive emotions intact, so a positive perspective can be sustained.
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syo
Well-Known Member
Then they should heal us now.
Bird123
Well-Known Member
It's your goal to have it made in life. Do you think that is God's goal? If God's goal was for you to have it made, this physical universe would not exist.
You still lead with feelings.You place feelings above all else. As long as you do this you leave yourself vulnerable to another episode of being lost. It will come in time until you realize thinking should always lead.
The problem will not go away until you Solve it! Your desire to have it made pushes you to work at resolution. God knows this. Question remains. Are you working toward resolution or merely complaining?
You feel what happened to you serves no purpose, yet I see the necessity for it. Kiddies often do not like going to school yet are happy they went after it is all said and done.
Work on a view outside of feeling. See what is waiting for you to Discover.
Exercise your Thinking half to strengthen it. Take a tough math class. Do some crossword puzzles. Put a 1000+ piece puzzle together. There are thinking games I am sure you can find online. When you get strong, let thinking take the lead and see what happens.
The Transcended Omniverse
Well-Known Member
Sure, thinking is necessary, and I can still make certain choices in my life without my ability to feel positive emotions. But, our thinking alone doesn't allow us to see goodness, beauty, tragedy, horror, and worth in things. Only our emotions do that. We need to have a positive perspective in life, which means we must see goodness, beauty, magnificence, and worth in things, and avoid a negative perspective, where we see things as bad, horrible, disgusting, tragic, etc.
So, our goal in life should be the positive emotions, since they're the only positive perspectives, which means they're what are important. So many people say that we should have a positive perspective in life, and avoid a negative perspective, since having a negative perspective is no way to live. Well then, we need positive emotions, and we should avoid negative emotions, since negative emotions are no way to live.
A life without emotions (apathy) is also no way to live. If you wish to know how how our emotions are the only positive and negative perspectives, then I'll explain. If you have a proud thought, then that thought will make you feel proud (a positive emotion). If you have the thought that something's beautiful, then that thought would make you feel that this thing is beautiful, and that feeling of beauty would be a positive emotion.
Feelings are how we experience things. For example, feeling hungry is how we experience hunger, feeling thirsty is how we experience thirst, feeling sleepy is how we experience sleepiness, feeling love (a positive emotion) is how we experience love, feeling pride and happiness (positive emotions) is how we experience pride and happiness, and feeling that life's beautiful is how we experience life as beautiful.
Perception and experience are the same thing. For example, if you're seeing (perceiving) the color red, then you're experiencing red, and vice versa. If you're feeling that life's beautiful, then you're experiencing life as beautiful, which is the same thing as saying you're seeing (perceiving) beauty in life. In addition, if you feel love, you're experiencing love, and that's the same thing as having a loving perspective. So, that's why we need positive emotions to see goodness, beauty, and worth in things, and to have a happy, loving perspective.
Again, a life without a positive perspective/outlook is no way to live, and that's why a life without positive emotions is no way to live. If you lose your positive emotions, then you lose your ability to perceive/experience things as good, beautiful, and worth living for, and you'd lose your ability to experience love and happiness, just as how you'd lose your ability to experience hunger, thirst, and sleepiness if you lost your ability to feel hungry, thirsty, and sleepy.
