Yes, very convincing. The problem with that is that i can make up any theory, and justify it by using exactly your arguments. In other words: it has zero explanatory power.
So, what you say is not right....it is not even wrong.
Ciao
- viole
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Atheists: Would you like to believe in God if there was good evidence for God?
- Thread starter Trailblazer
- Start date
Yes, very convincing. The problem with that is that i can make up any theory, and justify it by using exactly your arguments. In other words: it has zero explanatory power.
So, what you say is not right....it is not even wrong.
Ciao
- viole
InChrist
Free4ever
The Hebrew word used in Isaiah 45:7 does not mean "sin". The Hebrew word translated in Isaiah 45:7 as "evil" is an entirely different word than the Hebrew word for "sin".
Strong's Hebrew: 7451. רָע (ra') -- adversity
The literal meaning of the Hebrew word for sin is "to miss the mark" or fall short of God's perfect standard.
Hebrew Word Definition: Sin | AHRC
Strong's Hebrew: 2403. חַטָּאָה (chatta'ah) -- sin
Strong's Hebrew: 2400. חַטָּאּים (chatta) -- sinful, sinners
Strong's Hebrew: 2398. חָטָא (chata) -- to miss, go wrong, sin
QuestioningMind
Well-Known Member
You are correct that it is POSSIBLE that the couple who claim to be my parents have lied to me all of my life. However, if the ones identifying themselves as my parents are not in fact my real biological parents, my basic comprehension of biology tells me that there WAS a couple who WERE my biological parents, because that's how baby human beings come into existence.
Unless of course you're under the impression that I'm the first human being to ever come into existence without being born biologically.
QuestioningMind
Well-Known Member
And I did answer your question... please read my response again, please. I very clearly wrote
NO THEY CANNOT. Which is why I stated that my existence is proof on only one thing, that my parents procreated.
QuestioningMind
Well-Known Member
I am certainly NOT suggesting that you do that because I know it is not possible to WILL a belief in God. All I am suggesting, if even that, is that you might give it more careful consideration before you decide there is no God.
Except that I have NEVER made the claim that there is no god... ONLY that due to a lack of verifiable evidence that it's impossible for me to believe that there IS a god. You yourself have stated that it's impossible to get verifiable evidence for god, so regardless of how much 'consideration' I give the matter, there will NEVER be sufficient evidence for me to genuinely believe.
I do not think it is a fair comparison to compare God to magical pixies for two reasons:
1. There is no reason to think that magical pixies exist, no evidence at all
2. Even if magical pixies did exist, they would have no bearing on our lives
I find it to be a perfectly apt example. Because:
1. There is EXACTLY as much verifiable evidence for your god claim as there is for my magical pixie claim. That is to say, absolutely ZERO.
2. Not according to my claim. IF you genuinely believe in the magical pixies THEN your every wish will be granted. Not sure how you can claim that being given the power to have your wishes all come true would have no bearing on your life.
Sadly your 'divine author' is no more convincing to me that the 'divine authors' of all of the thousands of other man-made religions out there. You may as well be telling me that Jesus could never have accomplished all that he did unless a god was involved. Or that Hercules could never have accomplished all that he did unless a god was involved. For that matter, I can claim that the magical pixies could never have accomplished all that they have, unless magical pixies were involved.
But that is not the meaning understood by the vast majority of christianity.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
"lied to me all of my life"
I did not say it. I am just telling that when one/you got consciousness one believed things mostly or all out of hearsay. Is that OK, please?
Regards
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
"that my parents procreated"
Strictly speaking it was nothing less or more than out of hearsay. Right, please?
Regards
wandering peacefully
Which way to the woods?
I'm not sure I understand. I thought the entire purpose of religions was to find God (g's) in order to be able to live for eternity. I thought this material life was just a jumping off/returning place which is temporary and if you want the real life which is the eternal one with God, you have to believe one of the religions to be able to achieve that? And believe in God, which ever one and whatever that is?
I thought you hated this life and think it's useless?
QuestioningMind
Well-Known Member
And I greed that it's POSSIBLE that the people who claim to be my parents aren't telling me the truth. How about where I went on to say that even IF they have in fact mislead me, I was STILL the product of two human beings procreating? My existence remains proof that such procreation took place, but proof of nothing more.
QuestioningMind
Well-Known Member
As I already stated... yes it IS hearsay that the folks who claim to be my parents are actually my parents. But it is NOT hearsay that two human beings - be they my claimed parents or not - made my existence possible via procreation. Right, please?
Sorry, can't quite fit my answer against your three points.
If there was evidence of God (obviously this is my opinion) I'd believe. Regardless of if I wanted to. Like believing in my coffee table.
Whether I would worship God is a far trickier question, to which I'd say almost certainly not.
Despite his flaws, I might like God if I had evidence he was trying his best, or if I really thought children dying of diseases was part of a grand plan.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
You had no your own experience/observation that you were born of two specific human being/your parents except their own claims, a hearsay, and the other human beings, also a hearsay. Right, please?
Regards
QuestioningMind
Well-Known Member
Again, unless you have evidence of someone magically starting to exist without being the product of two human's procreating, then NO it is NOT just a hearsay claim. My understanding of basic biology tells me that I MUST be the product of human procreation.
ToGodorNottoGod
Member
Would I like to believe in God? That depends on what kind of God. And then again, does belief have anything to do with what is real? I'm somewhat suspicious of that...
ToGodorNottoGod
Member
What if God is already here, and no one knows it? That seems to me to be an interesting question...
ToGodorNottoGod
Member
It appears to me that an assumption being made here is that the Bible has the last word. I am not sure of that assumption. Why quote it and not some one else's scripture? And on the other hand, why bother quoting any scripture, which is just someone anciently who wrote their opinion on things? Why quote ancient peoples as to the nature of what is real when they didn't have a clue about cells, germs, and microrganisms, let alone the billions of galaxies with billions of stars? I am not so sure they have any kind of corner on understanding reality about much of anything.
ToGodorNottoGod
Member
But doesn't it follow though that in order to actually know this about God, one would also have to be all knowing and all wise, or else how could one actually know a God is such? Since no one we are aware of in the vast concourse of human history approaches anywhere near these two ideals, doesn't it follow that they are just a myth invented by someone who wants to make a Superman of God? Simply quoting a holy book that says so doesn't make it so, because that is just yet again, someone's opinion, or hope. But that has nothing to do with what is real does it? There is literally no way to ever know if that kind of God even could exist, let alone actually does so.
ToGodorNottoGod
Member
Well the question before this question appears to me to be why would we even need one God? Of course, the question before even that is what is God and how is it defined? And is there actual evidence of the definition or is it wishful thinking? Just musing with you...
ToGodorNottoGod
Member
I read David and Marjorie Haight "The Scandal of Reason" University Press, 2004 4 times last year because it was so profound to me at the time. In it, the Haights demonstrate with absolutely impeccable logic and evidence that one can just as much prove the Devil is the only supernatural being as God is. They simply turned Anselm's proofs and arguments on their head and used the exact same reasoning as Anselm did for God, only they did it for the devil instead. The reason I bring this up is for this: there cannot be any kind of proof for God. It simply is a discussion and talking points. ALL arguments for God end up being circular. That was one of the singular most stunning revelations I have ever had in my life. I would sincerely suggest you avail yourself of this massive tome and read it carefully to see a phenomenal new insight into the idea, as it were, of God, and all that it entails. I promise, if nothing else, a rip roaring good time for your mind for a month or two as you get through this incredibly well written and well thought out text.