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TX Lt. Gov. Blames El Paso Shooting on Not Letting Kids “Pray in Our Schools”

SomeRandom

SomeRandom

Still learning to be wise
Staff member
Premium Member
Guitar's Cry said:
Guns also had a purpose: hunting and varmint control. They also didn't have automatics and an overblown sense of military masculinity in those days.

Plus, I think since straight white men were pretty secure in their roles as patriarchal kings they felt no need to lash out.
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Guns are tools. They can be used for good or for ill.

Straight white men who lash out are a symptom of a society failing to address mental health issues. Though part of me says that these “men” kind of need to grow the hell up and join the rest of us in 2019. The world has changed, adaption is the key to survival.
 
Shadow Wolf

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
Revoltingest said:
Perhaps the problem is too much Bible learn'n.
Many children learn of the fire & brimstone God.
Instilling such a sense of fear & retribution can
make one violent & intolerant.
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Personally, it didn't make me violent (towards others, anyways), but it made me very intolerant.
 
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Kenny

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
Shadow Wolf said:
Where is your rebuttal? Your evidence? Jesus never spoke against slavery, but rather he and Paul both affirmed the status of slavery (Matthew 18:25; Luke 12:47). Paul tells them to obey (Ephesians 6:5; 1 Timothy 6:1-2), and even Jesus does suggest "evil servants" can be "cut asunder." (Matthew 24:48-50).
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Jesus didn't affirm it. He is speaking a message of spiritual truth and speaking in terms that people of His day understood. Where did Jesus say "I support slavery?"

Paul is speaking on how to be a Christian living in the life circumstances that one finds himself. Where did Paul say, "I support slavery?"

However, we do find that when God created Adam and Eve there was no slavery involved or promoted. We see at the end that thee is no slavery involved or promoted.

Many people are slaves to sin, slaves to their mortgage, slaves to their debt and the "masters" that hold their debts.

What we do find is:
Philippians 2:7-9 New Living Translation (NLT)
7 Instead, he gave up his divine privileges;
he took the humble position of a slave
and was born as a human being.
When he appeared in human form,
8 he humbled himself in obedience to God
and died a criminal’s death on a cross.
9 Therefore, God elevated him to the place of highest honor
and gave him the name above all other names,

So Jesus became a slave and then broke slavery.

Life happens and we are born into situations and sometimes life just happens but, in reference to slavery:

1 Corinthians 12:13Some of us are Jews, some are Gentiles, some are slaves, and some are free. But we have all been baptized into one body by one Spirit, and we all share the same Spirit.
Galatians 3:28 There is no longer Jew or Gentile, slave or free, male and female. For you are all one in Christ Jesus.
1 Corinthians 7:21 Are you a slave? Don’t let that worry you—but if you get a chance to be free, take it. (He isn't supporting it, but understands that we should be free)

But again... precedent: no slavery. When sin and man no longer hold the reigns of the world, no slavery.

So. Beginning, no slavery. Middle with Jesus - made to be a slave to open the door to be free. End... no slavery.

Shadow Wolf said:
Jefferson, Franklin, Washington, Madison, they weren't Christian, and they wanted to do away with slavery. But it was the Christian South who demanded their "god given right" to slaves. Jefferson, self-described "intellectual adversary of the clergy," wanted to condemn the King for bringing slaves into the new world in the Declaration, but the Southern Christians wouldn't have it, and he wanted to abolish it in the Constitution, but, again, the Southern Christians wouldn't have it.
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Your information is partially wrong, wholly lacking in the full scope, and definitely not applicable. Did they stop slavery? Nice try though. You might try not parroting what other people say.
 
Kenny

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
Valjean said:
It was liberals that abolished it. Christians were fine with it for two millennia. They even used Christianity to support their pro slavery agenda in the American South.
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Define liberal please in context of this timeframe.
 
Shadow Wolf

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
KenS said:
Paul is speaking on how to be a Christian living in the life circumstances that one finds himself. Where did Paul say, "I support slavery?"
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Telling slaves to serve obediently is saying you support it.
KenS said:
esus didn't affirm it. He is speaking a message of spiritual truth and speaking in terms that people of His day understood. Where did Jesus say "I support slavery?"
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He did affirm the existence of slaves whenever he spoke of them in a way that reflects their normalized position in society.
And, again, not once in the Bible is slavery opposed, condemned, or spoken out against. And why should it be when there are numerous laws saying who can be slaves, how they can be treated, and affirming that people are bought with money and reduced to property? Those Southern Christians were the ones with the correct interpretation of the Bible. Christians can't condone slavery until the neglect those parts and decide that what god allowed and permitted isn't acceptable.
KenS said:
Your information is partially wrong, wholly lacking in the full scope, and definitely not applicable. Did they stop slavery? Nice try though. You might try not parroting what other people say.
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I didn't say they stopped slavery. I said those like Jefferson (the intellectual adversary of the clergy), who were Deist, wanted to, originally penned things to do so, but the Southern Christians wouldn't have it. The greatest folly of Franklin was when he incorrectly assumed that slavery is so horrendous, cruel, and inhumane that would shortly die out on its own, which is why the North conceded and went along with it anyways for the sake of forming a sovereign America. And is it parroting to point out that on official documents it does clearly state "the United States was not, in any sense, established upon Christian principles?"
 
Shad

Shad

Veteran Member
Valjean said:
It was liberals that abolished it. Christians were fine with it for two millennia. They even used Christianity to support their pro slavery agenda in the American South.
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There were Christian abolitionists. Your grasp of history is poor. The end of slavery was not some secular atheists group movement. It was Christians fighting Christians at least in the US as the majority. For the rest of the planet it was Christian nations telling other people what to do.
 
Kenny

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
Shadow Wolf said:
Telling slaves to serve obediently is saying you support it.
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Hardly. Especially when one views it in the Christian worldview! Did you want them to say "Take up your sword and kill every one of them"?

No... the main goal of Christians is simply to share the love of Jesus. Joseph, the son of Jacob, was sold as a slave but used his relationship with God to transform those around him and ended up influencing a good portion of the world. Jesus was unjustly tortured and crucified but because of His obedience changed destiny.

A pastor got entrance into the Maffia, not because he supports their way of life, but because of his influence he led one of the heads to Jesus Christ.

If you change the heart, you change the future. John Newton was a slave trader... go saved and wrote Amazing Grace and left the slave trade. Why did he leave the slave trade... because one KNOWS that slavery is wrong when one has a real relationship with God.

Shadow Wolf said:
He did affirm the existence of slaves whenever he spoke of them in a way that reflects their normalized position in society.
And, again, not once in the Bible is slavery opposed, condemned, or spoken out against. And why should it be when there are numerous laws saying who can be slaves, how they can be treated, and affirming that people are bought with money and reduced to property? Those Southern Christians were the ones with the correct interpretation of the Bible. Christians can't condone slavery until the neglect those parts and decide that what god allowed and permitted isn't acceptable.
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Explained already... precedent.

It also says nothing about "don't take drugs"... but I'm sure it isn't on His list either.

Shadow Wolf said:
I didn't say they stopped slavery. I said those like Jefferson (the intellectual adversary of the clergy), who were Deist, wanted to, originally penned things to do so, but the Southern Christians wouldn't have it. The greatest folly of Franklin was when he incorrectly assumed that slavery is so horrendous, cruel, and inhumane that would shortly die out on its own, which is why the North conceded and went along with it anyways for the sake of forming a sovereign America. And is it parroting to point out that on official documents it does clearly state "the United States was not, in any sense, established upon Christian principles?"
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At the expense of the dozens of pastors who also said "No slavery". And it was Christians who stopped it.

And parroting one official political document at the expense of 48 official documents that specifically deal with God is hardly a point prover.

Of course, we are changing the subject... but please feel free in as much as you haven't debunked anything I have stated other that parroting old info.
 
Shadow Wolf

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
Shad said:
There were Christian abolitionists. Your grasp of history is poor. The end of slavery was not some secular atheists group movement. It was Christians fighting Christians at least in the US as the majority. For the rest of the planet it was Christian nations telling other people what to do.
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Christians who were quoting the Bible versus Christians who took it upon themselves to say that what god permits isnt moral or ethical.
 
Shad

Shad

Veteran Member
Shadow Wolf said:
Christians who were quoting the Bible versus Christians who took it upon themselves to say that what god permits isnt moral or ethical.
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And there were Christians on the other side arguing against it and dying for it. Christians were on both sides. That is historical fact.
 
Shadow Wolf

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
Shad said:
And there were Christians on the other side arguing against it and dying for it. Christians were on both sides. That is historical fact.
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Im not denying that. Im pointing out one of those groups were quoting the Bible, and doing it in proper context. The other group said god was wrong. Not with those words, but they put aside scripture for reason, they realized there is a mistake, and said what god allows isnt good. They have nothing in the Bible when it comes to the issue of slavery. Paul sealed the deal when he told Christian slaves to serve especially well if they have a Christian master.
 
BilliardsBall

BilliardsBall

Veteran Member
Shadow Wolf said:
The worst insensitivity it to keep offering up useless and worthless prayers that will accomplish and achieve nothing. It's time prayers were shoved aside, discarded, and replaced with real action.
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It's not insensitive to withhold tolerance to religion and religious persons? Are you sure?
 
Shadow Wolf

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
BilliardsBall said:
It's not insensitive to withhold tolerance to religion and religious persons? Are you sure?
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It's insensitive to keep saying this happens because kids don't pray in school, that people need to turn to god and things will get better, and that prayers will solve our problems. It's to the point we can say that **** doesn't work, and point out a million hands clasped in prayer does and achieves significantly less than two hands at work. We need real action and solutions, not prayers to an absent figure in the sky.
 
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