Is it necessary to keep Gods Law?

shmogie · Aug 1, 2019

reddogs said:
The Sabbath was made before there were any Jews or Greeks. And Christ should know, as at Creation, all things were made by Him:
John 1:1-3 King James Version (KJV)

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Gods sabbath was made at creation. He stopped creating ( working ) and is still resting, ( not creating ).

The sabbath for the Jews was not presented to them till just before Sinai.

Another point for you to consider.

Two people were singled out by Christ as men of faith. One of them Christ identified as having the greatest faith in Israel.

They were Roman Centurions. It was impossible for them to keep the sabbath. They were officers in the Roman army. They were responsible for 80 - 100 soldiers. They rarely had days off. Refusing to work on a specific day would result in death, the Roman army had brutal discipline.

So, these two men of faith, Gentiles, non sabbath keepers, were not admonished by Christ, but praised.

They weren´t Jews, they were not required to keep the sabbath. If they were, Christ could not have called them men of great faith.

reddogs · Aug 1, 2019

shmogie said:
Gods sabbath was made at creation. He stopped creating ( working ) and is still resting, ( not creating ).

The sabbath for the Jews was not presented to them till just before Sinai.

Another point for you to consider.

Two people were singled out by Christ as men of faith. One of them Christ identified as having the greatest faith in Israel.

They were Roman Centurions. It was impossible for them to keep the sabbath. They were officers in the Roman army. They were responsible for 80 - 100 soldiers. They rarely had days off. Refusing to work on a specific day would result in death, the Roman army had brutal discipline.

So, these two men of faith, Gentiles, non sabbath keepers, were not admonished by Christ, but praised.

They weren´t Jews, they were not required to keep the sabbath. If they were, Christ could not have called them men of great faith.

The Sabbath was made for all mankind and as it says in the Ten Commandments, you are to 'Remember the Sabbath', not forget and just say I can substitute any day. Jesus Christ is “Lord even of the Sabbath day” as the Creator as He said:

“For the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath day.” Matthew 12:8.

By identifying Himself as “Lord even of the Sabbath day,” Jesus of was showing that He was the One who originally created Earth in six days, and rested on the seventh day. And the New Testament makes clear with many text that Jesus is the Creator as all things were made by Him...

"He [Jesus] was in the world, and the world was made by Him, and the world knew Him not". John 1:10

"God, who created all things by Jesus Christ." Eph. 3:9

"For by Him [Jesus] all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him." Col. 1:16

So not only did Jesus create the Sabbath but He makes clear it was the seventh day and made Holy as He blessed and hallowed it...
"For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it." Exodus 20:11

"And he said unto them, This is that which the LORD hath said, To morrow is the rest of the holy sabbath unto the LORD: bake that which ye will bake to day, and seethe that ye will seethe; and that which remaineth over lay up for you to be kept until the morning." Exodus 16:23

Jesus Christ regularly kept the Sabbath, taught much about the Sabbath, and clearly stated that He made it. The Sabbath continues after the cross and was kept in the book of Acts by both Jews and Gentiles There is no biblical authorization for the change of the Bible Sabbath from Saturday to any of the other six days or to refrain from worship to God, in fact much the opposite.

God made the Sabbath at the beginning of the world before any Jews existed, to be a blessing to all people. Most importantly, it is a special sign that Jesus Christ is the true Creator of heaven and earth and scripture is clear those who love God keep His Law.
"By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments".1 John 5:2

When the Son of God came, He kept the seventh day all His life:
"And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day, and stood up for to read.¨ Luke 4:16

Thus Jesus gave us the example to follow especially when it comes to worship and glory to God, and so we all have to decide, do we follow God or ideas of man or worse, traditions of man.

"Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.Revelation 14:7

Ellen Brown · Aug 1, 2019

shmogie said:
Gods sabbath was made at creation. He stopped creating ( working ) and is still resting, ( not creating ).

The sabbath for the Jews was not presented to them till just before Sinai.

Another point for you to consider.

Two people were singled out by Christ as men of faith. One of them Christ identified as having the greatest faith in Israel.

They were Roman Centurions. It was impossible for them to keep the sabbath. They were officers in the Roman army. They were responsible for 80 - 100 soldiers. They rarely had days off. Refusing to work on a specific day would result in death, the Roman army had brutal discipline.

So, these two men of faith, Gentiles, non sabbath keepers, were not admonished by Christ, but praised.

They weren´t Jews, they were not required to keep the sabbath. If they were, Christ could not have called them men of great faith.

So, you are saying that you don't have to be one of the 'IN' people?

shmogie · Aug 1, 2019

Ellen Brown said:
So, you are saying that you don't have to be one of the 'IN' people?

I am saying that if you are a Gentile, or a Messianic Jew, you are not required to keep the sabbath.

My dear friends, the SDAś, do not trust the New Covenant completely. They have one foot in the First Covenant, and one foot in the second.

Having been one of them for many years, I can attest to them being good Christian people, yet they have added burdens to themselves that they do not need to carry.

Yes, they view themselves as the in people. They, and they alone are keepers of the pure truth of Christianity.

Sadly, They teach and preach so much that is good, and teach and preach things that are harmful when compared to the Gospel of Christ

shmogie · Aug 1, 2019

reddogs said:
The Sabbath was made for all mankind and as it says in the Ten Commandments, you are to 'Remember the Sabbath', not forget and just say I can substitute any day. Jesus Christ is “Lord even of the Sabbath day” as the Creator as He said:

“For the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath day.” Matthew 12:8.

By identifying Himself as “Lord even of the Sabbath day,” Jesus of was showing that He was the One who originally created Earth in six days, and rested on the seventh day. And the New Testament makes clear with many text that Jesus is the Creator as all things were made by Him...

"He [Jesus] was in the world, and the world was made by Him, and the world knew Him not". John 1:10

"God, who created all things by Jesus Christ." Eph. 3:9

"For by Him [Jesus] all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him." Col. 1:16

So not only did Jesus create the Sabbath but He makes clear it was the seventh day and made Holy as He blessed and hallowed it...
"For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it." Exodus 20:11

"And he said unto them, This is that which the LORD hath said, To morrow is the rest of the holy sabbath unto the LORD: bake that which ye will bake to day, and seethe that ye will seethe; and that which remaineth over lay up for you to be kept until the morning." Exodus 16:23

Jesus Christ regularly kept the Sabbath, taught much about the Sabbath, and clearly stated that He made it. The Sabbath continues after the cross and was kept in the book of Acts by both Jews and Gentiles There is no biblical authorization for the change of the Bible Sabbath from Saturday to any of the other six days or to refrain from worship to God, in fact much the opposite.

God made the Sabbath at the beginning of the world before any Jews existed, to be a blessing to all people. Most importantly, it is a special sign that Jesus Christ is the true Creator of heaven and earth and scripture is clear those who love God keep His Law.
"By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments".1 John 5:2

When the Son of God came, He kept the seventh day all His life:
"And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day, and stood up for to read.¨ Luke 4:16

Thus Jesus gave us the example to follow especially when it comes to worship and glory to God, and so we all have to decide, do we follow God or ideas of man or worse, traditions of man.

"Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.Revelation 14:7

Of course Christ kept the sabbath, in life he was a Jew. He was bound by the law in all things. The entire law. Which means what you call the health laws and the ceremonial law.

He was bound by it all. So, if you use Christ keeping the law as your example, you must keep the entire law. To a Jew, all was the law.

Nowhere does God say the the sabbath was for all humanity. The closest you can come is Christ talking to a group of Jews telling them the He is the Lord of the sabbath, clearly making it clear He had the power to eliminate it if He chose.

The law ( covenant )had to be fulfilled, and it was at the cross. When He said ¨ it is finished,
he wasn´t talking just about His sacrifice, He was talking about the first covenant.

He had kept it perfectly in your place, and mine, and he had died for our sins, the punishment we deserve. The resurrection was the beginning of a new covenant.

Adventists play the pea under the shell with the law. I played it many times.

The division of the law by bifurcation was never done by the Jews. The law was the law.

God certainly wrote the table of contents, and Moses was inspired by God to write the bulk of the law. Can you imagine how hard it would be to carry around the entire law if God wrote it on stone ?

Just as Christ displayed his authority by miracles, God writing the big ten was the sign of Moses authority.

Back to the walnut shells and peas. When speaking of b the law, if a part does not fit Adventist theology, like the instruction of how to keep the sabbath, the Adventist says that law, or ordinance, or however it is titled was done away with, it means nothing to us.

Conveniently, there is the law of God the big ten, and the law of Moses, the rest. However, the Bible uses them interchangeably, they are the same law, the same law Christ kept, the same law all Jews kept.

Once again to the religion of assumptions, you assume this division was made, then you assume which is which depending on your theology.

The new covenant was not made for the Jews, they rejected the Messiah, and all that meant for them and the world. A new covenant was made with humanity.

That is why the law of Christ is carefully explained through the NT. Sometimes it is amended, or modified but along with others not part of the big ten of the old law. Christ himself did away with the food restrictions, Paul amplified , that there is no longer laws about what you eat.

As I pointed out before, the sabbath is not part of the law of Christ. It was fulfilled at the cross, and it cannot be found as a command to keep in the New Testament. You can assume, but your assumptions are not based in Scripture.

I respond directly to what you post, you ignore what I post. There could be a number of reasons for this, nevertheless, it is a little rude.

Tell me about those faithful Roman Centurions, one, Cornelius had greater faith than all of Israel. They could never be sabbath keepers, and Christ knew this, yet He said nothing to them about the sabbath. He did not because they were Gentiles, and Gentiles have never been required to keep the sabbath.

What is your take on this ? What did EGW have to say about it ?

reddogs · Aug 1, 2019

shmogie said:
Of course Christ kept the sabbath, in life he was a Jew. He was bound by the law in all things. The entire law. Which means what you call the health laws and the ceremonial law.

He was bound by it all. So, if you use Christ keeping the law as your example, you must keep the entire law. To a Jew, all was the law.

Nowhere does God say the the sabbath was for all humanity. The closest you can come is Christ talking to a group of Jews telling them the He is the Lord of the sabbath, clearly making it clear He had the power to eliminate it if He chose.

The law ( covenant )had to be fulfilled, and it was at the cross. When He said ¨ it is finished,
he wasn´t talking just about His sacrifice, He was talking about the first covenant.

He had kept it perfectly in your place, and mine, and he had died for our sins, the punishment we deserve. The resurrection was the beginning of a new covenant.

Adventists play the pea under the shell with the law. I played it many times.

The division of the law by bifurcation was never done by the Jews. The law was the law.

God certainly wrote the table of contents, and Moses was inspired by God to write the bulk of the law. Can you imagine how hard it would be to carry around the entire law if God wrote it on stone ?

Just as Christ displayed his authority by miracles, God writing the big ten was the sign of Moses authority.

Back to the walnut shells and peas. When speaking of b the law, if a part does not fit Adventist theology, like the instruction of how to keep the sabbath, the Adventist says that law, or ordinance, or however it is titled was done away with, it means nothing to us.

Conveniently, there is the law of God the big ten, and the law of Moses, the rest. However, the Bible uses them interchangeably, they are the same law, the same law Christ kept, the same law all Jews kept.

Once again to the religion of assumptions, you assume this division was made, then you assume which is which depending on your theology.

The new covenant was not made for the Jews, they rejected the Messiah, and all that meant for them and the world. A new covenant was made with humanity.

That is why the law of Christ is carefully explained through the NT. Sometimes it is amended, or modified but along with others not part of the big ten of the old law. Christ himself did away with the food restrictions, Paul amplified , that there is no longer laws about what you eat.

As I pointed out before, the sabbath is not part of the law of Christ. It was fulfilled at the cross, and it cannot be found as a command to keep in the New Testament. You can assume, but your assumptions are not based in Scripture.

I respond directly to what you post, you ignore what I post. There could be a number of reasons for this, nevertheless, it is a little rude.

Tell me about those faithful Roman Centurions, one, Cornelius had greater faith than all of Israel. They could never be sabbath keepers, and Christ knew this, yet He said nothing to them about the sabbath. He did not because they were Gentiles, and Gentiles have never been required to keep the sabbath.

What is your take on this ? What did EGW have to say about it ?

So what is a Christian, is it not one who follows the example of Christ and does what He asks? He was not a Jew when He came and wrote on the tablets of stone the Ten Commandments with His own fingers, or when He made the Sabbath at Creation.

Christ was clear they were to be kept rather than the traditions of man.

Mark 7:9
And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.

shmogie · Aug 1, 2019

reddogs said:
So what is a Christian, is it not one who follows the example of Christ and does what He asks? He was not a Jew when He came and wrote on the tablets of stone the Ten Commandments with His own fingers, or when He made the Sabbath at Creation.

Then, as Christ would have done, under the law, He would ensure menstruating women were isolated during their time. He would be unclean, if He touched a dead body. Go through Deuteronomy and Leviticus, and see the entire law that He kept perfectly. If His life is your example, you either do as He did, or you fail.

No where can it be found at Sinai that the law, any part of it, existed for anyone but the Jews. It was part of His covenant with them, no one else. The sabbath was a sign between He and the Jews, no one else, it existed to proclaim them as Gods chosen people. The scripture is perfectly clear.

The only way you can get around this is replacement theology. Christians never replaced the Jews as the chosen people.

In Pauls exampled of the olive tree, a Jewish olive tree, the soil is God, the roots are Judaisms support from God, the trunk is the Patriarchs, and the branches are Jews. When some branches are cut away, and Gentiles are grafted in, they are not then Jews. They live on the foundation of Judaism, yet they remain Gentiles.

They will remain Gentiles forever. When an orange branch is grafted into a lemon tree, it does not become a lemon branch, it produces oranges. It is an orange branch, and remains so.

So, Gentiles never are Jews, they do not replace Jews, and the sign between God and the Jews can never
be usurped by Gentiles, it is not for them.

reddogs · Aug 1, 2019

shmogie said:
Then, as Christ would have done, under the law, He would ensure menstruating women were isolated during their time. He would be unclean, if He touched a dead body. Go through Deuteronomy and Leviticus, and see the entire law that He kept perfectly. If His life is your example, you either do as He did, or you fail.

No where can it be found at Sinai that the law, any part of it, existed for anyone but the Jews. It was part of His covenant with them, no one else. The sabbath was a sign between He and the Jews, no one else, it existed to proclaim them as Gods chosen people. The scripture is perfectly clear.

The only way you can get around this is replacement theology. Christians never replaced the Jews as the chosen people.

In Pauls exampled of the olive tree, a Jewish olive tree, the soil is God, the roots are Judaisms support from God, the trunk is the Patriarchs, and the branches are Jews. When some branches are cut away, and Gentiles are grafted in, they are not then Jews. They live on the foundation of Judaism, yet they remain Gentiles.

They will remain Gentiles forever. When an orange branch is grafted into a lemon tree, it does not become a lemon branch, it produces oranges. It is an orange branch, and remains so.

So, Gentiles never are Jews, they do not replace Jews, and the sign between God and the Jews can never
be usurped by Gentiles, it is not for them.

The Ten Commandments are Gods Law, so you cannot twist it. Its clear, written with His finger, and confirmed by Christ.

Matthew 19:17
And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

We see what Christ said about the Law:

Matthew 5:17-19
Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Now, since Jesus knew what laws His death would fulfill, would He be saying this about the Ten Commandments if He were going to fulfill them? Of course not, He was talking about Moses’ ceremonial law as we see from the following verses:

Mark 12:28-31
28 And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all? 29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: 30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. 31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

What law was Jesus citing out of, its the Ten Commandments. The Ten Commandments are arranged in two groups; the first group (commandments 1-4) deal with out relationship to God, the second group (5-10) deal with our relationship to one another. When we read Matthew 22:37-40, again it is obvious that it is the Ten Commandments Jesus is talking about:

Matthew 22:37-40
Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

It is these two precepts, love to God and love to one another, that constitute the entire moral law of the Ten Commandments.

shmogie · Aug 1, 2019

reddogs said:
The Ten Commandments are Gods Law, so you cannot twist it. Its clear, written with His finger, and confirmed by Christ.

Matthew 19:17
And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

I don´t twist anything, I repeat What is in the Bible. There has been a lot of twisting going on, by EGW, the White estate, and the GC.

Yes, they are part of Gods law for the Jews.

Ah, another Adventist trait, whenever commandment is written, it means the 10 commandments.

Do you keep the commandments ? Whatever ones He is speaking of, do you keep them ?

Here is where the rubber meets the road. So, to enter into life, some commandments must be kept.

Do you keep them ? Are you perfect, sinless ? Paul says to break one is to break them all.

If sin is the transgression of the law, some law, say the big 10, and you must keep them to enter life, and to break one is to break them all, do you keep them all ?

No, you do not, and you never will be able to, so you cannot enter life, as Christ said.

What now ? You, who keeps the sabbath, and those faithful Centurions who do not, are in the same boat.

Unless, of course, you have stopped sinning, have you ? Were the guys Christ was talking to sinless ? Was Christ confused ??

Is it necessary to keep Gods Law?

shmogie

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reddogs

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Ellen Brown

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shmogie

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shmogie

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reddogs

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shmogie

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reddogs

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shmogie

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