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The god of the Bible should be seeking forgiveness

Road Less Traveled

Road Less Traveled

Active Member
KenS said:
Victim mentality.... but you are welcome to believe in your version.
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If in the NT, it talks about getting the mind of god and getting Christ consciousness, then it seems the serpent was telling the truth and trying to help man while Jehovah or the god(s) were the liars.

Obviously, I could understand from Jehovah’s perspective why it wouldn’t want man to have the mind of god, being able to see good and evil since they’d clearly see that Jehovah was evil.
 
Quintessence

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
A Vestigial Mote said:
Oddly enough though, I feel that if a geneticist (or company) were to irresponsibly create and release a genetic line of highly invasive, quick-breeding, destructive rodents that wrought havoc on a large percentage of a city/area/state/country/etc., and people knew the source and knew who was responsible for the creation of these animals, then I think some sort of recompense would indeed be sought, or at the very least, blame cast, and an attempt made at justice of some kind being exacted for damage caused. Is this not a better analogy (especially given your idea that god is "very much above and beyond such things") than the parent to child idea that you brought to bear? Not to mention that parents can be very responsible for children under a certain age, and when those children become adults, then they are basically the peers of their parents, and are more equal "agents" acting upon the world of their own volition - hence the reason they become responsible for their own actions.

Guns are a different matter, because they have actual application beyond the violence they are sometimes used for. Just like a knife or a car can be used to commit grievous acts - and yet we hold no person who created these things accountable - because it was not their intent that their product be used this way. However, if a company decided to craft a gun that had a sight built onto it, within the reticle which was the silhouette of a human head, well, then things might be different (responsibility or blame-wise) if we started seeing people using these weapons against other civilians, don't you think?

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These are all good points, but it's a bit tangential to my own. My point was if the OP is going to hold the Abrahamic god to the standards of human law, they need to be consistent about it for their argument to make sense. It doesn't really matter what the human laws are, they just need to be consistently the point of reference for the argument rather than selectively so. How humans assign fault and accountability is, frankly, bizarre and inconsistent. The picture the OP was painting earlier in the thread is far, far too neat and tidy to account for the realities and complexities of human laws.
 
Thief

Thief

Rogue Theologian
JJ50 said:
If the god character in the Bible exists, and all the unpleasant things attributed to it have any credence, it should be on its knees begging the human race to forgive it.

It beggars belief that some look upon the god character as good and a god of love. If it was a human it would be vilified for its evil character, prosecuted and either spend the whole of its life incarcerated, or even executed.

Now I await the excuses some Christians will come up with, in order to exonerate it.
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I for one suspect......God doesn't give a damn

but then again ...He just might

It's His way.....or your way

and if you insist......be on your way
 
S

susanblange

Active Member
JJ50 said:
Yeh so perfect they told god where to stick it when it told them not to eat the fruit of the knowledge tree, and good for them. :D:D:D

It is incredible in this day and age that some people can actually believe the creation story to be literally true.:rolleyes:
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The story of Adam and Eve is a parable and it is not meant to be taken literally. It was reenacted by the Messiah and Adam around the end of 1983 thru the beginning of 1984. 1984 was the "acceptable year of the Lord". Isaiah 61:2. A&E will be the parable at the Messiah's trial. Psalm 49:4, Psalm 78:2.
 
Kenny

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
Road Less Traveled said:
If in the NT, it talks about getting the mind of god and getting Christ consciousness, then it seems the serpent was telling the truth and trying to help man while Jehovah or the god(s) were the liars.

Obviously, I could understand from Jehovah’s perspective why it wouldn’t want man to have the mind of god, being able to see good and evil since they’d clearly see that Jehovah was evil.
Click to expand...

Not as I have studied it. The already had the Christ consciousness but Satan said, "There is another way even though God said this is the way". Christ consciousness is "I AM the way, the truth and the life" and "You can do nothing of yourself, You are but a branch and a branch cannot produce fruit unless it is hooked to the vine. I AM the vine ". Remember, the NT is speaking to those who need a Christ consciousness which is, in reality, returning to the way Adam was before he sinned.

As a person, I have no need to know what prison is like to know that prison is a limited death. Suffice that my father said, "Son, you don't want to go to prison".
 
A Vestigial Mote

A Vestigial Mote

Well-Known Member
Quintessence said:
These are all good points, but it's a bit tangential to my own. My point was if the OP is going to hold the Abrahamic god to the standards of human law, they need to be consistent about it for their argument to make sense. It doesn't really matter what the human laws are, they just need to be consistently the point of reference for the argument rather than selectively so. How humans assign fault and accountability is, frankly, bizarre and inconsistent. The picture the OP was painting earlier in the thread is far, far too neat and tidy to account for the realities and complexities of human laws.
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And my point somewhat counters this idea of yours:
Quintessence said:
How humans assign fault and accountability is, frankly, bizarre and inconsistent.
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While that may very well be the case in some circumstances, on the whole I would say that "fault" and "accountability" tend to need to be somewhat fluid concepts, and that such may need to be assessed on a case-by-case basis. Hence the reason I was able to come up with scenarios where one might look at things differently, depending on the actors and events in play. It isn't "bizarre and inconsistent" because of some fault. It is different each time, and inconsistent only because perceptions of each event are different, depending on the specific details surrounding those events.

And so, the inconsistency that you are complaining the OP is working by isn't necessarily a fault. It may simply be an adaptable interface of "justice" as pertains the unique situation one finds one self within when faced with the claim that a supernatural, other-worldly being has mass-murdered entire swaths of your ancestors.
 
Road Less Traveled

Road Less Traveled

Active Member
KenS said:
Not as I have studied it. The already had the Christ consciousness but Satan said, "There is another way even though God said this is the way".
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So already having Christ consciousness, they would have still been able to be tricked and deceived?

Sounds like that type of consciousness would not be that useful to have then if that were the case.

Definitely would seem to me that once they had the mind of god, that Jehovah/the gods were naked/exposed for what they really were... evil.

All good though for Jehovah/the gods... then they just made them ignorant all over again and cursed them into suffering and enmity for becoming aware.
 
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T

Terry Sampson

Well-Known Member
@Jos
Looks like I was wrong in part: you didn't get thwacked like I suspected you might. Lucky you, eh? :D But I was right about the rest of my speculation.
 
SugarOcean

SugarOcean

¡pɹᴉǝM ʎɐʇS
leov said:
ginóskó: to come to know, recognize, perceive
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βλέπω

Consider this. Creator of all that is, was, or ever shall be. All that exists was made of and by Creator. No thing that exists is otherwise. Everything is of and by that source, eternally.
Do you really believe there is something that Creator cannot know or needs to perceive or discover in that which exists because Creator is the creator of all ?
 
J

JJ50

Well-Known Member
SugarOcean said:
βλέπω

Consider this. Creator of all that is, was, or ever shall be. All that exists was made of and by Creator. No thing that exists is otherwise. Everything is of and by that source, eternally.
Do you really believe there is something that Creator cannot know or needs to perceive or discover in that which exists because Creator is the creator of all ?
Click to expand...

In your opinion, for which you have no evidence.
 
leov

leov

Well-Known Member
SugarOcean said:
βλέπω

Consider this. Creator of all that is, was, or ever shall be. All that exists was made of and by Creator. No thing that exists is otherwise. Everything is of and by that source, eternally.
Do you really believe there is something that Creator cannot know or needs to perceive or discover in that which exists because Creator is the creator of all ?
Click to expand...
Creation was in potentiality, it is still going on, elementary matter that has blueprint of everything potentially to become depending on conditions, e.g. Life was created as life force which becomes animal, man, ameba or? Code is built in it. That is how Nachmanides explains Genesis 1. I agree, it makes total sense.
 
SugarOcean

SugarOcean

¡pɹᴉǝM ʎɐʇS
leov said:
Creation was in potentiality, it is still going on, elementary matter that has blueprint of everything potentially to become depending on conditions, e.g. Life was created as life force which becomes animal, man, ameba or? Code is built in it. That is how Nachmanides explains Genesis 1. I agree, it makes total sense.
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You'll note in my post I spoke of Creator as Creator of all things that were, are , or ever shall be. Therefore, creation by Creator is on going.
 
syo

syo

Well-Known Member
JJ50 said:
If the god character in the Bible exists, and all the unpleasant things attributed to it have any credence, it should be on its knees begging the human race to forgive it.

It beggars belief that some look upon the god character as good and a god of love. If it was a human it would be vilified for its evil character, prosecuted and either spend the whole of its life incarcerated, or even executed.

Now I await the excuses some Christians will come up with, in order to exonerate it.
Click to expand...
i think the christians say that god is responsible for all good things, and us humans are responsible of all bad things. :mad: in orthodox christianity we are all evil sinners.
 
leov

leov

Well-Known Member
SugarOcean said:
You'll note in my post I spoke of Creator as Creator of all things that were, are , or ever shall be. Therefore, creation by Creator is on going.
Click to expand...
Human beings are co-creators. God learns from our experience , that makes it interesting to God., that is God's cut in all that human trouble.
 
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