What does the Bible say about the origins of the Earth in relation to what science say?

SA Huguenot · Aug 1, 2019

ecco said:
Again, if you had bothered to read the excerpts you would see that Craig Blomberg is not an atheist.

You are like the anti-evolutionists who try to make the case that everyone who believes in evolution must be an atheist. Nonsense.

Ecco,
I think you are taking reality totally out of context to further your idea that there are somehow a problem with the origins of the New Testament, and in particular with the 4 gospels, and it's authors.

First of all, if you were to go back to my post you will see that I never referred to Craig Blomberg as an Atheist. Why do you accuse me of that?
To follow it up, I said I am sure you will go in the web and get some atheist to support your claim.Secondly, Craig Blomberg can never be regarded as a better scholar than Norman Geisler and what Blomberg did was to challenge him on many aspects of the inherrancy of the Biblical manuscripts.
I dont like it, but here is a link where you can find a nice explanation countering Blomberg.
Craig Blomberg's Neo-Evangelicalism | Defending Inerrancy
James Boice, Norman Geisler, Carl F. H. Henry, Kenneth Kantzer, Harold Lindsell, Roger Nicole, J. I Packer, R. C. Sproul, and Francis Schaeffer are all the teachers so to say, of Blomberg, and I met Norman Geisler a long time ago, and I dont think anyone will be able to tell me that he is also one of the foremost Biblical scholars on manuscript evidence.
So, If James White, Who had his ThM, ThD and DMin degrees from Columbia Evangelical Seminary, and was critisized that his college was unacredited, then came to South Africa to do accredited PhD at North-West University in Potchefstroom, South Africa in the field of textual criticism; are regarded as the foremost in his field of textual critisizm is not good enough for you,

... Well I give you Norman Geisler and co...
What you are caught up in is Blomberg, after so manny such as him, demanding that the Gospels can not be ascribed to the Apostles, whilst James White, and guys like Geisler, are of opinion that Blomberg is wrong and are making mere assumptions.
Greetings.

BilliardsBall · Aug 1, 2019

Wandering Monk said:
Way to not answer the question.

Radioactive decay releases heat and radiation. If decay rates were high enough to make 6000 years appear to be 500 million years, planet earth would be something like 22,000 degrees Fahrenheit and highly radioactive when Adam and Eve were supposed to have been here.

...Because you've changed one unformitarian assumptions but none of the rest?

BilliardsBall · Aug 1, 2019

ecco said:
Is that your attempt to show "reasonable evidence and reasonable evidence interpretation" and who developed it and who interpreted it.

If not, why did you bother posting? If so, it totally failed.

These are some of my notes on the subject.

Is Israel In God’s Plan?

“…As for you [Ezekiel], lie down…for the number of days…three hundred and ninety days (for Israel’s sin)…When you have completed these…I have assigned it to you for forty days (for Judah’s sin)…a day for each year.”—Ezekiel 4:4-6

Did God Err In The Bible?

606 BC …Judah/Israel taken captive to Babylon

536 BC …Cyrus allows return to Israel

…So, only 70 years of 430 fulfilled? (Atheists point out with glee this scripture came up empty)

"Seven Times Punishment"

“…And if by these things [sins] you are not turned to Me, but act with hostility against Me, then I will act with hostility against you; and I, even I, will strike you seven times for your sins.”—Leviticus 23:23-24

Ezekiel “Counts”

70 years of captivity

430 – 70 (captivity) = 360 years left

360 x 7 (times punishment) = 2,520 years

Going from the date in history (recorded in the Bible and outside the Bible also) of the Babylonian diaspora = May 15, 1948 AD! (Israel born in a day by decree of United Nations, this occurred at 12:01 AM or April 15 in Gentile reckoning; the Jewish date began at sundown or dark the night before)

Longer look:

+ Leviticus 26:14-46 says Israel will pay seven times over for disobedience

…If also after these things you do not obey Me, then I will punish you seven times more for your sins.

Ezekiel 4:1-8 demonstrate 430 days/years of punishment in captivity/”scattered” for disobedience

«NOW you son of man, get yourself a brick, place it before you and inscribe a city on it, Jerusalem.

2

«Then lay siege against it, build a siege wall, raise up a ramp, pitch camps and place battering rams against it all around.

3

«Then get yourself an iron plate and set it up as an iron wall between you and the city, and set your face toward it so that it is under siege, and besiege it. This is a sign to the house of Israel.

4

«As for you, lie down on your left side and lay the iniquity of the house of Israel on it; you shall bear their iniquity for the number of days that you lie on it.

5

«For I have assigned you a number of days corresponding to the years of their iniquity, three hundred and ninety days; thus you shall bear the iniquity of the house of Israel.

6

«When you have completed these, you shall lie down a second time, but on your right side and bear the iniquity of the house of Judah; I have assigned it to you for forty days, a day for each year.

7

«Then you shall set your face toward the siege of Jerusalem with your arm bared and prophesy against it.

8

«Now behold, I will put ropes on you so that you cannot turn from one side to the other until you have completed the days of your siege.

in 606 BCE; Judah/Israel was transported away from home—Cyrus conquered Babylon after 70 years and said return in 536 BC, yet only 50,000 devout Jews returned (Jeremiah 25:11 mentions these 70 years’ captivity about which Daniel prayed for wisdom as their end approached)

taking 430 minus 70 years of warning/captivity equals 360 years (multiplied times seven for punishment of Leviticus) = 360 x 7 x 360 [days] or 907,200 days from Cyrus’ decree to May 15, 1948 AD…when Israel was declared a nation!!!

Subduction Zone · Aug 1, 2019

BilliardsBall said:
...Because you've changed one unformitarian assumptions but none of the rest?

You mean tested and confirmed hypotheses.

You are still misusing the word "assumption". Please try to remember the Ninth Commandment.

Wandering Monk · Aug 1, 2019

BilliardsBall said:
...Because you've changed one unformitarian assumptions but none of the rest?

What other ones need to be changed?

ecco · Aug 1, 2019

SA Huguenot said:
Now, who said anything about a God throwing thunderbolts?

I did, commenting to BilliardsBall

ecco said:
In any case, "I don't know" is a far more honest and correct answer than "GodDidIt". Or perhaps you still believe that God throws lightning bolts.

ecco · Aug 1, 2019

SA Huguenot said:
Ecco,
I think you are taking reality totally out of context to further your idea that there are somehow a problem with the origins of the New Testament, and in particular with the 4 gospels, and it's authors.

Your reality is not the reality of Biblical scholars who have come to realize that MMLJ are not the authors of the Gospels.

SA Huguenot said:
First of all, if you were to go back to my post you will see that I never referred to Craig Blomberg as an Atheist. Why do you accuse me of that?

In just one post you made two sweeping comments about Biblical scholars who disagree with you implying that they must all be, or were, atheists.

SA Huguenot said:
if we were to take the world's best Christian historians, some who were atheist before they learned the reality of the NT, it is impossible to prove that theNT was not written by the Apostles.

SA Huguenot said:
I guess you would like to follow up with atheists who tried to dismiss his discoveries, but once you dig deeper into their allegations, you will see that they do not have a foot to stand on.

and in your latest post...

SA Huguenot said:
To follow it up, I said I am sure you will go in the web and get some atheist to support your claim.

It's pretty clear you want to believe that anyone who disagrees with you about the authorship of the gospels must be an atheist. That is exactly what Creationists try to do regarding people who support Evolution.

SA Huguenot said:
To follow it up, I said I am sure you will go in the web and get some atheist to support your claim.Secondly, Craig Blomberg can never be regarded as a better scholar than Norman Geisler and what Blomberg did was to challenge him on many aspects of the inherrancy of the Biblical manuscripts.
I dont like it, but here is a link where you can find a nice explanation countering Blomberg.
Craig Blomberg's Neo-Evangelicalism | Defending Inerrancy
James Boice, Norman Geisler, Carl F. H. Henry, Kenneth Kantzer, Harold Lindsell, Roger Nicole, J. I Packer, R. C. Sproul, and Francis Schaeffer are all the teachers so to say, of Blomberg, and I met Norman Geisler a long time ago, and I dont think anyone will be able to tell me that he is also one of the foremost Biblical scholars on manuscript evidence.
So, If James White, Who had his ThM, ThD and DMin degrees from Columbia Evangelical Seminary, and was critisized that his college was unacredited, then came to South Africa to do accredited PhD at North-West University in Potchefstroom, South Africa in the field of textual criticism; are regarded as the foremost in his field of textual critisizm is not good enough for you,

... Well I give you Norman Geisler and co...
What you are caught up in is Blomberg, after so manny such as him, demanding that the Gospels can not be ascribed to the Apostles, whilst James White, and guys like Geisler, are of opinion that Blomberg is wrong and are making mere assumptions.
Greetings.

Did you bother to read the excerpts I posted? Let's try to stay on course. Respond to those excerpts before asking me to read your stuff.

ecco · Aug 1, 2019

BilliardsBall said:
These are some of my notes on the subject.

Is Israel In God’s Plan?

“…As for you [Ezekiel], lie down…for the number of days…three hundred and ninety days (for Israel’s sin)…When you have completed these…I have assigned it to you for forty days (for Judah’s sin)…a day for each year.”—Ezekiel 4:4-6

Did God Err In The Bible?

606 BC …Judah/Israel taken captive to Babylon

536 BC …Cyrus allows return to Israel

…So, only 70 years of 430 fulfilled? (Atheists point out with glee this scripture came up empty)

"Seven Times Punishment"

“…And if by these things [sins] you are not turned to Me, but act with hostility against Me, then I will act with hostility against you; and I, even I, will strike you seven times for your sins.”—Leviticus 23:23-24

Ezekiel “Counts”

70 years of captivity

430 – 70 (captivity) = 360 years left

360 x 7 (times punishment) = 2,520 years

Going from the date in history (recorded in the Bible and outside the Bible also) of the Babylonian diaspora = May 15, 1948 AD! (Israel born in a day by decree of United Nations, this occurred at 12:01 AM or April 15 in Gentile reckoning; the Jewish date began at sundown or dark the night before)

Longer look:

+ Leviticus 26:14-46 says Israel will pay seven times over for disobedience

…If also after these things you do not obey Me, then I will punish you seven times more for your sins.

Ezekiel 4:1-8 demonstrate 430 days/years of punishment in captivity/”scattered” for disobedience

«NOW you son of man, get yourself a brick, place it before you and inscribe a city on it, Jerusalem.

2

«Then lay siege against it, build a siege wall, raise up a ramp, pitch camps and place battering rams against it all around.

3

«Then get yourself an iron plate and set it up as an iron wall between you and the city, and set your face toward it so that it is under siege, and besiege it. This is a sign to the house of Israel.

4

«As for you, lie down on your left side and lay the iniquity of the house of Israel on it; you shall bear their iniquity for the number of days that you lie on it.

5

«For I have assigned you a number of days corresponding to the years of their iniquity, three hundred and ninety days; thus you shall bear the iniquity of the house of Israel.

6

«When you have completed these, you shall lie down a second time, but on your right side and bear the iniquity of the house of Judah; I have assigned it to you for forty days, a day for each year.

7

«Then you shall set your face toward the siege of Jerusalem with your arm bared and prophesy against it.

8

«Now behold, I will put ropes on you so that you cannot turn from one side to the other until you have completed the days of your siege.

in 606 BCE; Judah/Israel was transported away from home—Cyrus conquered Babylon after 70 years and said return in 536 BC, yet only 50,000 devout Jews returned (Jeremiah 25:11 mentions these 70 years’ captivity about which Daniel prayed for wisdom as their end approached)

taking 430 minus 70 years of warning/captivity equals 360 years (multiplied times seven for punishment of Leviticus) = 360 x 7 x 360 [days] or 907,200 days from Cyrus’ decree to May 15, 1948 AD…when Israel was declared a nation!!!

You used a lot of words, mostly poorly copied and pasted, to say nothing. That's par for the course where you're concerned.

BilliardsBall · Aug 2, 2019

ecco said:
You used a lot of words, mostly poorly copied and pasted, to say nothing. That's par for the course where you're concerned.

You ignored (surprise!) my first sentence: These are some of my notes on the subject.

I'll take your lack of response as tacit admission the Bible is TRUE.

Subduction Zone · Aug 2, 2019

BilliardsBall said:
You ignored (surprise!) my first sentence: These are some of my notes on the subject.

I'll take your lack of response as tacit admission the Bible is TRUE.

You did Gish Gallop of nonsense. He gave a more than adequate response.

If you do a Gish Gallop again can we take it as a tacit admission that the Bible is false?

After all, an honest person that has a real belief would not use dishonest tactics.

SA Huguenot · Aug 2, 2019

ecco said:
Your reality is not the reality of Biblical scholars who have come to realize that MMLJ are not the authors of the Gospels.

Then again there is no evidence that it is not.
Then again there are many scholars that came to realize that the Authors of the Gospels were as it was named.

SA Huguenot · Aug 2, 2019

ecco said:
In just one post you made two sweeping comments about Biblical scholars who disagree with you implying that they must all be, or were, atheists.

Nope, you said I called Craig Blomberg an atheist!
Why this blatant lie?
I never said anything about Blomberg as you suggested!

Subduction Zone · Aug 2, 2019

SA Huguenot said:
Then again there is no evidence that it is not.
Then again there are many scholars that came to realize that the Authors of the Gospels were as it was named.

Find some evidence. Actual scholars appear to disagree with you.

SA Huguenot · Aug 2, 2019

ecco said:
It's pretty clear you want to believe that anyone who disagrees with you about the authorship of the gospels must be an atheist. That is exactly what Creationists try to do regarding people who support Evolution.

So now you will carry on to play this strawpuppet you created!
in an attempt to change your lie into my accountability.
Again, Show me where I said Blomberg was an Atheist, dont go and say "It is pretty clear...Must be an Atheist...This is what Creationists do..."
You are making allegations about what you think Creationists might do, then you think you peoved me wrong.
Burning your straw puppet dos not mean you achieved in changing what I said!

You deceived yourself so much, and spun a web where the more you try to get out of your lie, the more you entangele yourself.

SA Huguenot · Aug 2, 2019

Subduction Zone said:
Find some evidence. Actual scholars appear to disagree with you.

And actual schollars agree with me. Actual schollars dissagree with you.

Subduction Zone · Aug 2, 2019

SA Huguenot said:
And actual schollars agree with me. Actual schollars dissagree with you.

No, that is clearly not the case. You know it since you did not follow through on my reasonable demand. It is well know that Mark, the first Gospel,was not written by Mark. That it was written about 70 CE.

Once again, find a well respected, not some Fruit Loop,that agrees with you.

ecco · Aug 2, 2019

BilliardsBall said:
You ignored (surprise!) my first sentence: These are some of my notes on the subject.

These are some of your notes?

BilliardsBall said:
“…As for you [Ezekiel], lie down…for the number of days…three hundred and ninety days (for Israel’s sin)…When you have completed these…I have assigned it to you for forty days (for Judah’s sin)…a day for each year.”—Ezekiel 4:4-6

Did God Err In The Bible?

606 BC …Judah/Israel taken captive to Babylon

536 BC …Cyrus allows return to Israel

…So, only 70 years of 430 fulfilled? (Atheists point out with glee this scripture came up empty)

"Seven Times Punishment"

Dang. I coulda sworn they were written by some guy named Ezekiel and you just copied/pasted them into your comment.

BilliardsBall said:
I'll take your lack of response as tacit admission the Bible is TRUE.

But I did respond:

ecco said:
You used a lot of words, mostly poorly copied and pasted, to say nothing. That's par for the course where you're concerned.

By your own logic that is an assertion that the Bible is FALSE.

ecco · Aug 2, 2019

SA Huguenot said:
Nope, you said I called Craig Blomberg an atheist!
Why this blatant lie?
I never said anything about Blomberg as you suggested!

You are quite right. You never specifically stated Blomberg is an atheist. I do apologize for claiming you did.

Perhaps you can see why I got confused...

(A) You implied that the scholars who argued that the authors of the Gospels were not MMLJ had to be atheists...

SA Huguenot said:
I guess you would like to follow up with atheists who tried to dismiss his discoveries,

SA Huguenot said:
To follow it up, I said I am sure you will go in the web and get some atheist to support your claim

(B) I cited Blomberg, as a scholar who argued that the authorship of the Gospels were not MMLJ.

ecco said:
No. It doesn't suffice. It is one man's opinion. Another opinion is from the excerpt I quoted above...
The internal anonymity of the Gospels is even acknowledged by many apologists and conservative scholars, such as Craig Blomberg, who states in The Case for Christ (p. 22): "It's important to acknowledge that strictly speaking, the gospels are anonymous."

If (A) and (B) then you either consider Blomberg to be an atheist or you are wrong about theists who believe MMLJ are not the Gospel authors.

Perhaps you would like to clarify.

ecco · Aug 2, 2019

SA Huguenot said:
So now you will carry on to play this strawpuppet you created!
in an attempt to change your lie into my accountability.
Again, Show me where I said Blomberg was an Atheist, dont go and say "It is pretty clear...Must be an Atheist...This is what Creationists do..."
You are making allegations about what you think Creationists might do, then you think you peoved me wrong.
Burning your straw puppet dos not mean you achieved in changing what I said!

You deceived yourself so much, and spun a web where the more you try to get out of your lie, the more you entangele yourself.

See post # 558 above.

BilliardsBall · Aug 5, 2019

ecco said:
These are some of your notes?

Dang. I coulda sworn they were written by some guy named Ezekiel and you just copied/pasted them into your comment.

But I did respond:

By your own logic that is an assertion that the Bible is FALSE.

My notes/my past lecture notes... from the Bible with commentary. What are you talking about?

What does the Bible say about the origins of the Earth in relation to what science say?

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