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Do Muslims and Christians worship the same God?

Do Muslims and Christians worship the same God?

  • I belong to one of these religions and believe they worship the same God

    Votes: 8 28.6%
  • I belong to one of these religions and believe they worship different Gods

    Votes: 4 14.3%
  • I belong to neither religion and believe they worship the same God

    Votes: 11 39.3%
  • I belong to neither religion and believe they worship different Gods

    Votes: 5 17.9%

  • Total voters
    28

SugarOcean

¡pɹᴉǝM ʎɐʇS
Thanks.

So it is very clear that
1. The Surah is not words of Allah because it is in 3rd person -- refers to Allah as 3rd Person , not as WE -- first person..
2. The writers of those Surah tried to push Jesus' divinity under the rug, Allah didn't.
3. It means the concept of the Divine avatAr -- descent. incarnation as a phenomenon --- very familiar to Hindus, even different types, categories levels of avatAr,, a bit tricky for some Christians at RF, but totally unthinkable to the Muslims, -- does not have to imply that Allah is not God.

Just a thought/
 

SugarOcean

¡pɹᴉǝM ʎɐʇS
Thanks.

So it is very clear that
1. The Surah is not words of Allah because it is in 3rd person -- refers to Allah as 3rd Person , not as WE -- first person..
2. The writers of those Surah tried to push Jesus' divinity under the rug, Allah didn't.
3. It means the concept of the Divine avatAr -- descent. incarnation as a phenomenon --- very familiar to Hindus, even different types, categories levels of avatAr,, a bit tricky for some Christians at RF, but totally unthinkable to the Muslims, -- does not have to imply that Allah is not God.

Just a thought/
I think the point being made isn't that in Islam Allah is not god. Rather the point is that the Allah god of Islam says in various Surah that he has no son. Did you watch the videos that were linked? They're not that long but they do pertain to the OP.
 

David1967

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Surah 5:17
They have certainly disbelieved who say that Allah is Christ, the son of Mary. Say, "Then who could prevent Allah at all if He had intended to destroy Christ, the son of Mary, or his mother or everyone on the earth?" And to Allah belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth and whatever is between them. He creates what He wills, and Allah is over all things competent.

If you have a little less than 7 minutes you may enjoy this.
Published on Oct 11, 2018
Muslims have always had a problem with God’s son, or more importantly, with Jesus as the ‘son of God’, because when they hear ‘sonship’ they assume that the Qur’an is stipulating that Jesus was God’s biological son, that God himself impregnated Mary, and from their union Jesus was created. The problem, however, is with the Qur’an itself.

In Surah 4:171 it is clear that God has no son. To understand what it means by son here, you have to look no further than Surah 5 and 6 which define what it is claiming. Surah 5:17 confronts the notion that Allah can be the Messiah, the son of Mary, introducing the fact that God cannot come from a woman. Surah 5:72 says that Allah has no partner, confronting any view that Jesus can be the partner of God. Surah 5:75 claims that Allah cannot eat, yet Jesus ate, proving that he cannot be God. In Surah 5:116 it intimates that Mary is part of the trinity, with Allah the father, Mary the mother, and Jesus the son, a very biological trinity. And then in Surah 6:101 it says that Allah cannot have a consort, cannot have a wife.

In all of these 5 examples the Qur’an is at fault as not one of these verses reflects what the Bible nor what Christians believe concerning ‘son of God’.

Nonetheless, Jesus is the ‘Son of God’, and has always been the ‘Son of God’. So, can sonship mean something else besides a biological relationship?

Take a look at Surah 2:177, where a traveler is referred to as ‘ibn ul-sabeeli’, which literally means ‘a son of the road’. Yet, no one would suggest that the traveler is born from the road itself, proving that the Arabic of the Qur’an accommodates another meaning of ‘sonship’, one which is relational, and not biological.

What’s more in Surah 39:4 it intimates that Allah can have a son! Thus, the question now needs to be reversed back to the Muslims…asking how exactly can Allah have a biological son, something the Bible never agrees to?

So, if Jesus is the ‘son of God’, what then does that mean? He’s not a biological son, but he does inherit everything his Father has, including his divinity. This is a divine title for the Jews, and when Caiaphas asked him this question in Matthew 26:62-66 and Jesus accepted this title, he tore his cloak and said ‘what further proof do we need, this man has blasphemed’! He knew that Jesus was claiming a divine title for himself.

So, if you want to blame someone or something concerning whether God can have a son, don’t blame the Bible, but blame the Qur’an, because the writers of the Qur’an realized that if Jesus really was the Son of God, then he was claiming divinity, and every time he used that title, he was saying “I am God”. That is why the writers created these 5 verses to center solely on to Jesus’ humanity, and thereby tried to divert the readers from Jesus’ divinity.

© Pfander Centre for Apologetics - US, 2018

I think the Muslims have the same issue with Jesus bring called the son of God as do the Jews.
 

SugarOcean

¡pɹᴉǝM ʎɐʇS
I think the Muslims have the same issue with Jesus bring called the son of God as do the Jews.
Two different causes for that.
For the Muslims it is the Qur'an assertion Allah has no son. And of course there not being a savior in Islam.
For the Jews many synagogues avoid teaching from Isaiah 53 in Torah. Otherwise things may change in that regard and as pertains to Messiah Jesus also.
 

Firemorphic

Activist Membrane
For the Muslims it is the Qur'an assertion Allah has no son.

Not merely that, but it unabashedly affirms the absolute Unity of God. No idols, no exceptions. Limiting and anthropomorphizing God is prohibited. There is nothing but that God, whatever name you want to attach yourself to for tribalistic reasons.

I can see why this would upset you so much though....:rolleyes:

And of course there not being a savior in Islam.

This isn't correct. We're "saved" through God alone, not through idols. But we do have a messianic figure, yes, the Mahdi.

For the Jews many synagogues avoid teaching from Isaiah 53 in Torah. Otherwise things may change in that regard and as pertains to Messiah Jesus also.

Interesting you say this. I presume that you've read a lot of Midrash (+ later Jewish exegesis) on Isaiah 53 to confirm this? Surely you're not just taking the Book of Acts' reference (and Matt 8:17 et al) to that chapter and interpreting Isaiah 53 through what Acts (et al) says?
 
Last edited:

Pudding

Well-Known Member
The general Islamic view is yes, they worship the same God.

I'm not certain about the Christian view. It appears to vary quite a bit which is why I am particularly interested in the Christian view on this.

Why do you think they worship the same God/different Gods?
Definition:
Same: Identical; not different.
Identical: Similar in every detail; exactly alike.

No, they're not worship the same God, because the God they respectively worship are not similar in every detail.
 

Wasp

Active Member
Definition:
Same: Identical; not different.
Identical: Similar in every detail; exactly alike.

No, they're not worship the same God, because the God they respectively worship are not similar in every detail.
Or,

Same:
"resembling in every relevant respect
b : conforming in every respect —used with as
2a : being one without addition, change, or discontinuance : identical
b : being the one under discussion or already referred to
3 : corresponding so closely as to be indistinguishable

something identical with or similar to another
2 : something or someone previously mentioned or described —often used with the or a demonstrative (such as that, those) in both senses"

Definition of SAME
 

Wasp

Active Member
Surah 5:17
They have certainly disbelieved who say that Allah is Christ, the son of Mary. Say, "Then who could prevent Allah at all if He had intended to destroy Christ, the son of Mary, or his mother or everyone on the earth?" And to Allah belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth and whatever is between them. He creates what He wills, and Allah is over all things competent.

If you have a little less than 7 minutes you may enjoy this.
Published on Oct 11, 2018
Muslims have always had a problem with God’s son, or more importantly, with Jesus as the ‘son of God’, because when they hear ‘sonship’ they assume that the Qur’an is stipulating that Jesus was God’s biological son, that God himself impregnated Mary, and from their union Jesus was created. The problem, however, is with the Qur’an itself.

In Surah 4:171 it is clear that God has no son. To understand what it means by son here, you have to look no further than Surah 5 and 6 which define what it is claiming. Surah 5:17 confronts the notion that Allah can be the Messiah, the son of Mary, introducing the fact that God cannot come from a woman. Surah 5:72 says that Allah has no partner, confronting any view that Jesus can be the partner of God. Surah 5:75 claims that Allah cannot eat, yet Jesus ate, proving that he cannot be God. In Surah 5:116 it intimates that Mary is part of the trinity, with Allah the father, Mary the mother, and Jesus the son, a very biological trinity. And then in Surah 6:101 it says that Allah cannot have a consort, cannot have a wife.

In all of these 5 examples the Qur’an is at fault as not one of these verses reflects what the Bible nor what Christians believe concerning ‘son of God’.

Nonetheless, Jesus is the ‘Son of God’, and has always been the ‘Son of God’. So, can sonship mean something else besides a biological relationship?

Take a look at Surah 2:177, where a traveler is referred to as ‘ibn ul-sabeeli’, which literally means ‘a son of the road’. Yet, no one would suggest that the traveler is born from the road itself, proving that the Arabic of the Qur’an accommodates another meaning of ‘sonship’, one which is relational, and not biological.

What’s more in Surah 39:4 it intimates that Allah can have a son! Thus, the question now needs to be reversed back to the Muslims…asking how exactly can Allah have a biological son, something the Bible never agrees to?

So, if Jesus is the ‘son of God’, what then does that mean? He’s not a biological son, but he does inherit everything his Father has, including his divinity. This is a divine title for the Jews, and when Caiaphas asked him this question in Matthew 26:62-66 and Jesus accepted this title, he tore his cloak and said ‘what further proof do we need, this man has blasphemed’! He knew that Jesus was claiming a divine title for himself.

So, if you want to blame someone or something concerning whether God can have a son, don’t blame the Bible, but blame the Qur’an, because the writers of the Qur’an realized that if Jesus really was the Son of God, then he was claiming divinity, and every time he used that title, he was saying “I am God”. That is why the writers created these 5 verses to center solely on to Jesus’ humanity, and thereby tried to divert the readers from Jesus’ divinity.

© Pfander Centre for Apologetics - US, 2018
He's wrong about the "biology" part. That's not all the Qur'an means regarding "sonship".

Surah 5:116 isn't speaking about trinity at all, but refers to that how the christians began to worship Mary.
 

firedragon

Veteran Member
Two different causes for that.
For the Muslims it is the Qur'an assertion Allah has no son. And of course there not being a savior in Islam.
For the Jews many synagogues avoid teaching from Isaiah 53 in Torah. Otherwise things may change in that regard and as pertains to Messiah Jesus also.

So you believe that the suffering servant in Isaiah 53 is Jesus Christ? Okay. So you believe its a prophesy about Jesus who is the messiah.

Hypothetically lets say I agree (I say again, hypothetically), how does that make that associated to God? What does that have to do with God? Does that make Jesus God? What is your position?
 

Shad

Veteran Member
The general Islamic view is yes, they worship the same God.

I'm not certain about the Christian view. It appears to vary quite a bit which is why I am particularly interested in the Christian view on this.

Why do you think they worship the same God/different Gods?

Same tradition but the details have separated each God into something different over time.
 

Shad

Veteran Member
He's wrong about the "biology" part. That's not all the Qur'an means regarding "sonship".

Surah 5:116 isn't speaking about trinity at all, but refers to that how the christians began to worship Mary.

Not the same trinity but a trinity. That why it calls Mary and Jesus Gods.
 

Wasp

Active Member
Not the same trinity but a trinity. That why it calls Mary and Jesus Gods.
Rather - if you insist on confusing people by using the word trinity here as well just because there are three mentioned - because it call them gods it would be a "trinity" of some sort.
 

Shad

Veteran Member
Rather - if you insist on confusing people by using the word trinity here as well just because there are three mentioned - because it call them gods it would be a "trinity" of some sort.

I confused no one as I clearly stated it was not the Christian Trinity. You just do not know that the trinity is considered polytheism in Islam via ascribing partners to God. Ergo it is a trinity within the Islamic view. That is not the Christian view of the Trinity as all.

You assumed context. Try again.
 

Wasp

Active Member
I confused no one as I clearly stated it was not the Christian Trinity. You just do not know that the trinity is considered polytheism in Islam via ascribing partners to God. Ergo it is a trinity within the Islamic view. That is not the Christian view of the Trinity as all.

You assumed context. Try again.
It may well confuse people. It already does as Christian apologetics say "the Qur'an is confused about trinity" etc. Which leads a lot of ignorant people into thinking that the Qur'an is "trying to" refer to the Christian trinity.

The only way it is trinity is as far as the dictionary allows. Using the word trinity is confusing and altogether unnecessary.
 

Shad

Veteran Member
It may well confuse people. It already does as Christian apologetics say "the Qur'an is confused about trinity" etc. Which leads a lot of ignorant people into thinking that the Qur'an is "trying to" refer to the Christian trinity.

No as the Quran promotes monotheism and rejects the Christian Trinity as shirk thus polytheism. That means according to Islam a trinity is 3 gods not 3 into one God. That only happens when one do not consider the Christian Trinity at all. Most Trinity Christians are monotheists even if they have no idea why nor can explain it.

The only way it is trinity is as far as the dictionary allows. Using the word trinity is confusing and altogether unnecessary.

Nope. See above.
 

Wasp

Active Member
No as the Quran promotes monotheism and rejects the Christian Trinity as shirk thus polytheism. That means according to Islam a trinity is 3 gods not 3 into one God. That only happens when one do not consider the Christian Trinity at all. Most Trinity Christians are monotheists even if they have no idea why nor can explain it.



Nope. See above.
There is no trinity in Islam. There is no trinity according to Islam. There is Shirk of many levels.
 

Shad

Veteran Member
There is no trinity in Islam. There is no trinity according to Islam. There is Shirk of many levels.

Wrong as Islam makes a mistake in viewing the trinity as polytheism while most Trinitarian see it as still monotheism.
 

Wasp

Active Member
Wrong as Islam makes a mistake in viewing the trinity as polytheism while most Trinitarian see it as still monotheism.
Islam mainly views the trinity as Shirk - whether it's polytheism or not is secondary.
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
No,
Christians worship the Trinity, of which the Father is in Heaven, the Holy Spirit lives in us, and Jesus lived amongst us.
This Jesus was crucified, and rode from the dead.
That is the Christian God.
The Islamic God does not know a Trinity, It denies the Divinity of Jesus, and calls the Holy Ghost either Muhammad, or Gibriel.

Sounds like the islamic god is then the god of the jews at least.
And the christian god is then the god of the jews + some extra fluff.

We have the 1400 year old conclusion.
The Bible say Jesus was crucified, the Quran says no, He was not.

Not that I care much....
But personally, if I would actually think that these texts are to be considered as proper accounts of history, I'ld trust the bible more on the crusifiction narrative then the quran. Even only because the quran was written 600 years later, while written crucifiction narrative in the bible goes back to only a couple decades after the alledged events.

After all, why would an author 600 years later hundreds of miles further know better then the people who were supposedly there and saw it happening?

I do not even consider Muhammad as a prophet of YHWH. He was a prophet of an imposter Angel, Gibriel.
In the Bible Jesus spoke to this angel, there he is called Legion!

Maybe Jesus was the imposter and the jews were right not to accept him as their messiah?
I'ld think that a powerfull angel, or satan himself, would be more then powerfull enough to trick us puny humans, no?

After all, how would you know?
 
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