Arguments for or against god

Samael_Khan · Jul 27, 2019

Diana Montgomery said:
Exactly. As I said, there are many versions. Which one is the inerrant word of God? I'm sorry, Israel, I'm not trying to pick on you. You are one of my favorite posters and, obviously, a good person. I just want the truth out. And I actually knew that the Apocryphal books were not part of Jewish scripture but the early church did include them in the Bible. So, I wanted to see what the Christians would say about that.

Thanks for such a nice comment

I don't mind being picked on if it is called for or helps with understanding.

I was under the impression that you didn't know.

I would say that none are the inerrent word of God. But then again I am not a Christian but I knew that when I was one (If JW's are considered Christian).

leroy · Jul 27, 2019

We Never Know said:
Spill over through white holes from another universe is another hypothesis.

And where did that energy came from? Where did the energy from other universes came from ?

And

Why is the white hole "alternative" better than God?

mikkel_the_dane · Jul 27, 2019

leroy said:
Ok so if you don't like the God alternative..... What option do you propose?

Matter/energy came from nothing? They have always existed? What explanation do you propose and why is that alternative better than God?

No, I like the God alternative. I am just a skeptic. I just don't like people claiming knowledge, if they don't have it.

leroy · Jul 27, 2019

mikkel_the_dane said:
#1 only tells you that it was a unmoved mover. The rest you attach is faith.

Ok , so what alternative do you suggest? And why is that alternative better than God ?

We Never Know · Jul 27, 2019

mikkel_the_dane said:
So as a global skeptic, know is a deeply held belief, which you don't doubt. Knowledge is a belief, which apparently works and there can be given no reason, logic or evidence for it. It is the belief that reason, logic and evidence work.

To answer your prior question of how do we know the earth rotates, we've measured it, observed it(from space), calculated its speed, tested it, etc. So I think I can safely say we know the earth rotates.

mikkel_the_dane · Jul 27, 2019

We Never Know said:
Spill over through white holes from another universe is another hypothesis.

And that you are a Boltzmann Brain is another one. Theoretical physics is the theology of science.

mikkel_the_dane · Jul 27, 2019

leroy said:
Ok , so what alternative do you suggest? And why is that alternative better than God ?

I didn't say it is better. I pointed out the limits of arguing from the point of a first unmoved mover. It only tells you God created the world. Not what kind of God.

leroy · Jul 27, 2019

mikkel_the_dane said:
No, I like the God alternative. I am just a skeptic. I just don't like people claiming knowledge, if they don't have it.

I personally don't claim to know with 100% certanity.

I am just suggesting that amoung the alternatives that can think of God is the best explanation..

I am not even saying that God us a Good explanation, all I am saying is that it is the best we have.

But I am open to other alternatives, just let me know what alternatives we have and why are they a better explanation than God

mikkel_the_dane · Jul 27, 2019

We Never Know said:
To answer your prior question of how do we know the earth rotates, we've measured it, observed it(from space), calculated its speed, tested it, etc. So I think I can safely say we know the earth rotates.

But you haven't explain what knowledge is.

We Never Know · Jul 27, 2019

leroy said:
And where did that energy came from? Where did the energy from other universes came from ?

And

Why is the white hole "alternative" better than God?

I never said the white hole hypothesis was better, it's an alternative which you asked for.
Why do you feel if we don't yet know, just insert god did it and it's right?

We Never Know · Jul 27, 2019

mikkel_the_dane said:
And that you are a Boltzmann Brain is another one. Theoretical physics is the theology of science.

There are many. Multiuniverse, spill over, holographic, etc. The list goes on.

leroy · Jul 27, 2019

mikkel_the_dane said:
I didn't say it is better. I pointed out the limits of arguing from the point of a first unmoved mover. It only tells you God created the world. Not what kind of God.

Granted.

Christians would have to provide additional arguments to show that their God is the correct one.... But Christians are not shy about this, they constantly provide such arguments (argument for the resurrection for example)

mikkel_the_dane · Jul 27, 2019

leroy said:
I personally don't claim to know with 100% certanity.

I am just suggesting that amoung the alternatives that can think of God is the best explanation..

I am not even saying that God us a Good explanation, all I am saying is that it is the best we have.

But I am open to other alternatives, just let me know what alternatives we have and why are they a better explanation than God

God is not a better explanation or worse. It is your explanation, but that doesn't decide if there is a God or not. Neither does the claim that there is no God explain anything or decide that there is no God. It is unknown what reality really is, including whether there is a God or not.

We Never Know · Jul 27, 2019

mikkel_the_dane said:
But you haven't explain what knowledge is.

I also don't get into arguments over semantics. I'm sure you have your own idea of what knowledge is.

mikkel_the_dane · Jul 27, 2019

leroy said:
Granted.

Christians would have to provide additional arguments to show that their God is the correct one.... But Christians are not shy about this, they constantly provide such arguments (argument for the resurrection for example)

Yeah, and in the end they require faith and nothing else.

leroy · Jul 27, 2019

We Never Know said:
I never said the white hole hypothesis was better, it's an alternative which you asked for.
Why do you feel if we don't yet know, just insert god did it and it's right?

Granted we don't know yet. That is the answers.

But the relevant question is: amoung all the explanations that have been proposed, which is the best explanation?

I would argue that God is the best explanation... But anyone is free to disagree and propose some other alternative

mikkel_the_dane · Jul 27, 2019

We Never Know said:
I also don't get into arguments over semantics. I'm sure you have your own idea of what knowledge is.

I warned you.

Samael_Khan · Jul 27, 2019

Diana Montgomery said:
To me, it goes beyond what science and math currently understand. What created existence? What made matter, time, energy and space. Without these there would be no existence. Where did they come from? I don't see science or math explaining these.

Exatly. It seems that all is conjecture.

mikkel_the_dane · Jul 27, 2019

leroy said:
Granted we don't know yet. That is the answers.

But the relevant question is: amoung all the explanations that have been proposed, which is the best explanation?

I would argue that God is the best explanation... But anyone is free to disagree and propose some other alternative

I don't know, is the best explanation with reason and logic. Others are better, if you feel for one of them.

leroy · Jul 27, 2019

mikkel_the_dane said:
Yeah, and in the end they require faith and nothing else.

The argument of the resurrection is not depended on faith.

Those who defend the argument that the new testament as a man made document , and the claims are explored with the same criteria one would explore any historical documents.

mikkel_the_dane · Jul 27, 2019

leroy said:
The argument of the resurrection is not depended on faith.

Those who defend the argument that the new testament as a man made document , and the claims are explored with the same criteria one would explore any historical documents.

They require a God, who can resurrect from the dead, That is faith.

Arguments for or against god

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