And I think it is rather more an issue of what is a living creature permitted to do in order to ensure its survival. Under what "law" are you required to resign yourself to death?
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Separation of families at the border
- Thread starter shmogie
- Start date
We Never Know
No Slack
If for example hungry people are allowed to slide, guess what, there will be more people claiming to be hungry and expecting a pass.
shmogie
Well-Known Member
Nope, nice try. They are in the country illegally. They have no right to go anywhere. Any organization or person who aids them has also broken they law.
Now, what makes you think I despise l the law in question ?
I hate the constant and continuous abuse of the law.
Why must you always make a personal comment about someo e who disagrees with you ?
Do you not have any understanding about what debate means ? It is about ideas, not personal sniping.
Why don't you give up the personal stuff, and stick to the rules
shmogie
Well-Known Member
They don't pay taxes.
Obama doubled the national debt in 8 years. The tax cut is about an eighth of that.
Any of it is bad, yet it came about primarily by giving money away, with no lasting effect.
OK then.
Be sure to take away his car keys when he gets the way he does.
I think that's a different line of thought.
But yes, I've noticed that risk factor too.
Father Heathen
Veteran Member
Eh, I'll leave that to you. It's a case of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde when he's had a few too many.
You specifically didn't mention the scenario that I brought up.
Is it ethical and moral to overlook the situation of a dying person stealing because of hunger. This is basically starvation.
Yes, I suggest it is. Are you saying, you wouldn't break any laws if you were in such a situation?
We don't overlook that they are breaking the laws. We then realize that our laws are inadequate and need revision for multiple cases of stealing.
Shad
Veteran Member
One can apply at a port of entry according to US law which is US soil.
Shad
Veteran Member
US is not party to UN 51 convention thus the UN is irrelevant as US law is paramount. The US has repeatedly rejected turning over any part of it's sovereignty to the UN. This would be such a case. The US can still veto anything the UN does anyways. Beside that the UN has a credibility issue.
The premise of your question itself is hypocritical. You cannot act as though others are wrong for not wanting America to commit suicide if you yourself are unwilling to first take the position that America should commit suicide. Otherwise you're being a hypocrit for questioning others for believing the exact same thing you already believe.
You first need to answer my original question posed to you before you ask a new one:
"Are you saying you want to see America destroyed and most of it's population wiped out like the native American nations were?"
Because whether or not you even have the ability to ask your question without being a hypocrit depends first on how you answer the original question I posed to you.
Unless you're willing to admit that you advocate such a policy precisely because you know it will destroy America.
In which case all your question is doing is implying that you think America deserves to be destroyed.
Is that a position you're willing to take publicly? It certainly seems like these days more on the left are willing to come right out and say that's basically what they believe and want.
But if you can't first establish that America deserves to be destroyed, or should be destroyed, then you have no logical basis for questioning why someone would take for granted that it would be a bad thing to allow a policy that would destroy America the way other nations have been destroyed. Otherwise your question just becomes irrelevant posturing because you yourself aren't even willing to take the position that one should purposely do something they know will destroy themselves on the basis of carrying out self inflicted punishment for what someone else did 400 years ago that they may not even be related to.
Last edited:
We Never Know
No Slack
I never said I wouldn't. Yet it's breaking the law.
Shad
Veteran Member
People can still claim asylum while being in the US within a year. That is how the system is being gamed.
shmogie
Well-Known Member
Absolutely. Nevertheless, not going to a port of entry to make an asylum claim, and just crossing the border in the middle of the desert is an illegal act.
Most who apply will not be granted asylum, and will be shipped home. Something like 95%. They are economic migrants, they ar not fleeing persecution because of race, religion, or political affiliation.
They are coming because they want the dinero, simple as that.
Most know they will be sent home of if their asylum claim is heard, but they laugh at that.
They either cross illegally and hunt for a Border Patrol agent to detain them, so they can go to a detention facility, where they will be released in a short time with a notice to appear. They disappear and are never heard from again.
Or, they just cut out the middle man, cross illegally, and disappear.
Then they are set, sanctuary states, welfare, medical care, food stamps or free food from charitable food banks, housing allowances, they cut lawns or pick crops and are paid cash under the table, and they don´t pay taxes.
Thank you, American taxpayer, we will be getting our extended family in, and you can take care of them too !!
The Border Patrol this year has apprehended illegals from 52 countries, God only knows how many got through.
I do not wish to see anybody, or any nation, destroyed. Nor do I think that the past can be amended -- the past is the past. That does not, however, mean that decent and fair-minded people cannot look diligently for ways to mitigate the unfairness under which a large number of people still live.
Over 500 treaties were signed between the US Government and native communities, mostly for land cessations, but all 500 were also nullified, by the government, whenever it suited the government's agenda. Why not start with trying to abide by a few of the more recent ones, and then start working slowly, diligently, pragmatically -- but with at least good will and an honest heart -- from there? Is that not what a truly "Christian" people would dearly want to do? Or is there still more to be taken away before the conquerors are completely satisfied?
SugarOcean
¡pɹᴉǝM ʎɐʇS
If no one gives it a thought it is likely because they don't understand that entering a country illegally is a crime. In America it is a federal offense to be prosecuted in federal court.
There is no policy that dictates illegals entering the U.S. are to be immediately separated from their kids. The reason people who enter the U.S with minor children have those children removed from their custody is because, the parents are breaking federal law and are to be federally detained and prosecuted.
And minor children are not allowed to be detained in federal prisons.
Furthermore, it is a good thing in that what is also forgotten is that human trafficking , minor children are not an exception, is an issue at our border as well. Which is why there is a new policy in place to perform DNA checks on minor children in the company of an adult(s).
That was then, in as far as separation of illegals with minor children. That was a policy in effect for 60 years.
See, it is a crime to enter a country illegally. It is a privilege to enter a nation. Not a right.
This is now: Last updated June 20, 2019
After outcry, Trump signs order that will stop separations and detain families together
http://www.cbc.ca/player/play/1260296771507/
Look closer. That story was posted in 2018, a year ago. It was more than a year ago that Trump signed an executive order to stop separating children from their parents. And it has not stopped.
SugarOcean
¡pɹᴉǝM ʎɐʇS
Look closer, besides my post, the article was updated 7 days ago.
Crossing the border illegally is a crime.
If they were Asulum seekers they should have come through a recognized port of entry.