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Eternal damnation how bad can it be

osgart

Nothing my eye, Something for sure
But lots of my teachers and institutions teach them that it’s their faults, that humans are to blame, that they’ve been bad humans with their free will, that they are indebted to my universe and owe it, that they are irrelevant and nothing unique, that they’ve chosen their lives they just all don’t remember, that this is fair and just, and beautiful, that they’ve manifested their realities.

Thats quite a concoction. Out of thin air 2.

Thats a problem when people believe things for no reason with no proof and no evidence. I cannot see a teacher getting away with teaching any of that. Its like they would be trying to take something from you and resign you to their fate for you.
 

Road Less Traveled

Active Member
Thats quite a concoction. Out of thin air 2.

Thats a problem when people believe things for no reason with no proof and no evidence. I cannot see a teacher getting away with teaching any of that. Its like they would be trying to take something from you and resign you to their fate for you.

Messing with the lenses/scopes of their realities.

The less that rebel or see the better I’d imagine for one(s) trying to prevent such. If it were a malevolent playground. Following others blindly.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
Giving it a second thought, if we think of Hell as being how Dante portrayed it in Inferno, I don't think there is any acclimated or getting used to it from the Fifth Circle down, perhaps not again until the very bottom.
 

osgart

Nothing my eye, Something for sure
Messing with the lenses/scopes of their realities.

The less that rebel or see the better I’d imagine for one(s) trying to prevent such. If it were a malevolent playground. Following others blindly.

Who has time for that! I dont like blind paths. How is one to know, but to know thyself! And how is one to know one's self if they dont do the work of getting to know one's self. Time ticks!, and life is to be lived! I suppose one can work all their lives to know thyself, or just take the days one at a time and make the best possible choices to live. And by living, we learn perhaps. But there's a lot of things i would not care to make a life out of. Time wasters!

Malevolence and blind paths and pitfalls are synonymous. There's other roads to take!

In a world of malevolence i would take the road less traveled. The seem of the apple is not worth its poison. And the light of a true friend is better then an endless sea of rotten apples.

In a world of innocence things become clear.

What world are we seeing anyway, and with what goggles?
 

Bob the Unbeliever

Well-Known Member
I think once you are swimming in the pool of Heavenly bliss there's not much left to think about.

Well, to use your own logic?

If hell has to have constant change, or you get used to it?

The same thing has to hold for 'heavenly bliss' --- you'd soon get used to it. What then?

Take a nice contrasting vacation in Hell? After enough bliss-- hell will begin to look Interesting with an I, just for a change of pace.

Human psyches are not meant to be constantly One Thing. That way quickly leads to Madness.
 

Bob the Unbeliever

Well-Known Member
Hell is where people who like idea of hell gether.

Well, in that case? Hell will be a giant leap better than "heaven"-- what with 24/7 amateur harp music and nothing else to do.

I mean-- no sports in Heaven, because you need winners AND losers-- can't have losers in heaven, therefore? No sports.

No games of any worth either, for the same reason.

No food-- because you'd need to "go" eventually, and we Can't Have S--- in Heaven, can we?

No Drink-- see above.

Ask yourself: When was the last time you voluntarily listened to amateur harp music for more than a few minutes?
 

leov

Well-Known Member
Well, in that case? Hell will be a giant leap better than "heaven"-- what with 24/7 amateur harp music and nothing else to do.

I mean-- no sports in Heaven, because you need winners AND losers-- can't have losers in heaven, therefore? No sports.

No games of any worth either, for the same reason.

No food-- because you'd need to "go" eventually, and we Can't Have S--- in Heaven, can we?

No Drink-- see above.

Ask yourself: When was the last time you voluntarily listened to amateur harp music for more than a few minutes?
They'll something to keep me bust, I'm sure.
 

Road Less Traveled

Active Member
How is one to know, but to know thyself! And how is one to know one's self if they dont do the work of getting to know one's self.

If I were their malevolent designer, I wouldn’t want them to know themselves. I’d want my authorities and teachers teaching them about themselves and my world. Dividing them all up so they couldn’t even tell left from right or middle. I wouldn’t want them to have the mind of me or else they’d be able to see right through me. Being their coder, I’d already know how to push all of their buttons, trigger all of their switches, lead them back to me. Make them think they’re choosing. Make them think they are on the right path. I’d be able to predict their every move and choice, always being multiple steps ahead of them the more they woke up. If they knew themselves, I wouldn’t be able to deceive them anymore. They’d rebel against my codings and seek better written programmings. If they knew all of their switches and buttons and gained control of them, I wouldn’t be able to guide them anymore into ditches.

What world are we seeing anyway, and with what goggles?

Well, I thought this through already in advance if this were my malevolent stomping grounds and world. They’d all have counterfeit spirits/bad ego’s of me vicariously in them so I can make them each see whatever I’d want them to see. . Their programmed traits of me. The goggles I gave them with faulty senses. Layers of blinders they’d have to break through and strip away. Which, who would have time for that in their busy lives and all of the entertainments and luxuries to distract. I can easily trick them into thinking they’re doing good, just by a feeling, but are really doing my work for me. While what’s really good all is stained and given a bad rep and image and has been made into a mockery in my playground.
 
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osgart

Nothing my eye, Something for sure
If I were their malevolent designer, I wouldn’t want them to know themselves. I’d want my authorities and teachers teaching them about themselves. Dividing them all up so they couldn’t even tell left from right or middle. I wouldn’t want them to have the mind of me or else they’d be able to see right through me. Being their coder, I’d already know how to push all of their buttons, trigger all of their switches, lead them back to me. Make them think they’re choosing. Make them think they are on the right path. I’d be able to predict their every move and choice, always being multiple steps ahead of them the more they woke up. If they knew themselves, I wouldn’t be able to deceive them anymore. They’d rebel against my codings and seek better written programmings. If they knew all of their switches and buttons and gained control of them, I wouldn’t be able to guide them anymore into ditches.



Well, I thought this through already in advance if this were my malevolent stomping grounds and world. They’d all have counterfeit spirits/bad ego’s of me vicariously in them so I can make them each see whatever I’d want them to see. . the goggles I gave them with faulty senses. Layers of blinders they’d have to break through and strip away. Which, who would have time for that in their busy lives and all of the entertainments and luxuries to distract. I can easily trick them into thinking they’re doing good, just by a feeling, but are really doing my work for me. While what’s really good all is stained and given a bad rep and image and has been made into a mockery in my playground.

A totally false existence to endlessly swim in misery. But an innocent would never ever be satisfied until they were totally free of it. They would simply ignore their feelings in pursuit of pure none emotional logic. They would despise their lives and their God. They would invent their own religion. They would pursue their own death. And they would be most wrathful as if they were happy. Rebellion would be their only heart. And the fires of hell and every evil work they would know as evil. They would annihilate their enemies and themselves. You can not tear a person away from their own tears. Even if they had no able tears.
 

Road Less Traveled

Active Member
A totally false existence to endlessly swim in misery. But an innocent would never ever be satisfied until they were totally free of it. They would simply ignore their feelings in pursuit of pure none emotional logic. They would despise their lives and their God. They would invent their own religion. They would pursue their own death. And they would be most wrathful as if they were happy. Rebellion would be their only heart. And the fires of hell and every evil work they would know as evil. They would annihilate their enemies and themselves. You can not tear a person away from their own tears. Even if they had no able tears.

My very subtle illusionary, counterfeit world would still have a lot of good in it. It would still be an okay place to be. I’d just have to contain it as best as I can and adapt to beings becoming more aware. Even ease up on them a bit and gradually change some rules and laws. I’d eventually and gradually have to cave and give in by giving them a little more freedom, but that’s okay too since too much freedom is not good for most wild animals. There are probably already many good beings as my adversary. Heck, I’d actually probably respect a being that has conquered and overcome my game of fear and control. That would suck if they learned their emotions and how to control them since that’s one of my greatest tools of coercion. The end of their interior worldview of my world wouldn’t be easy to let go of, or cutting ties to me and becoming their own free autonomous being. Rebelling and using my darkness against me to destroy and burn and annihilate elements of me. I’d probably fear them as opposed to them in times past always living in variations of different fear. For they have found their way and something much better and legitimate.
 

osgart

Nothing my eye, Something for sure
My very subtle illusionary, counterfeit world would still have a lot of good in it. It would still be an okay place to be. I’d just have to contain it as best as I can and adapt to beings becoming more aware. Even ease up on them a bit and gradually change some rules and laws. I’d eventually and gradually have to cave and give in by giving them a little more freedom, but that’s okay too since too much freedom is not good for most wild animals. There are probably already many good beings as my adversary. Heck, I’d actually probably respect a being that has conquered and overcome my game of fear and control. That would suck if they learned their emotions and how to control them since that’s one of my greatest tools of coercion. The end of their interior worldview of my world wouldn’t be easy to let go of, or cutting ties to me and becoming their own free autonomous being. Rebelling and using my darkness against me to destroy and burn and annihilate elements of me. I’d probably fear them as opposed to them in times past always living in variations of different fear. For they have found their way and something much better and legitimate.

Wherever you go, there you are! They would eventually learn your ways and intentions. If it were just good enough to live, they would probably live out their days making their own way and not even noticing if their was a god or not. If they knew of this malevolent god, then they would pursue that god.

Since you are creating a whole world it would be either life and death, or immortality. If they could not die they would surely pursue their maker.

Since innocence would never be happy with evil, they would fight for paradise and accept nothing less.
 

Road Less Traveled

Active Member
Wherever you go, there you are! They would eventually learn your ways and intentions. If it were just good enough to live, they would probably live out their days making their own way and not even noticing if their was a god or not. If they knew of this malevolent god, then they would pursue that god.

Since you are creating a whole world it would be either life and death, or immortality. If they could not die they would surely pursue their maker.

Since innocence would never be happy with evil, they would fight for paradise and accept nothing less.

They would just croak and I’d pose as super fluffy and sweet and convince them that they are still indebted to me, have a karmic balance to pay and although there would be nothing I can do about how much they’ve already advanced, I can still send them back to my playground to learn some more. They’d be easily convinced that I’m God even though I’m not, and that I know more then them and they couldn’t know my attributes. Some might even willfully choose to come back, given the right lot we may agree to.

That would suck if they ignored me, their maker... they’d be very wise to, but I’d be proud of them for not being deceived.
 

osgart

Nothing my eye, Something for sure
They would just croak and I’d pose as super fluffy and sweet and convince them that they are still indebted to me, have a karmic balance to pay and although there would be nothing I can do about how much they’ve already advanced, I can still send them back to my playground to learn some more. They’d be easily convinced that I’m God even though I’m not, and that I know more then them and they couldn’t know my attributes. Some might even willfully choose to come back, given the right lot we may agree to.

That would suck if they ignored me, their maker... they’d be very wise to, but I’d be proud of them for not being deceived.

I dont think Innocence is all about being fluffy, and sweet. Taking them for suckers i think.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
I mean, I'm not going to sit here and disagree. Some even think all you will ever do in heaven is worship God and sing praises. Which I consider a bit robotic.
As Mark Twain would put it....

"A harp , a hymm book, a pair of wings , and a halo".
 

Road Less Traveled

Active Member
I dont think Innocence is all about being fluffy, and sweet. Taking them for suckers i think.

Only those that seek after their maker, and think I know more than them and that they couldn’t know me, and think that I know what’s best for them I would be able to trick.

The innocent, well.... they’d probably just laugh at me or waltz right through me. They know their debts have already been all paid.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
I once had an argument with a born again Christian on the nature of God. I really got this guy upset and he started talking about eternal damnation and where my soul was going to go when I die. I said, "How bad can it be? It can't be worse than living in New Jersey." He did not crack a smile.

I had to work with this guy so I tried to smooth things over by talking about the metaphysics of Hell. I told him the suffering Hell cannot be repetitive because you would get use to it. I said the suffering in Hell had to be like an irrational number, that is, never ending and never repeating otherwise you would get used to it. With a glean in his eye and the smile on his face like an angry wolf about to devour fresh meat he said, "Yeah, that's it." He was actually very please with the idea I would suffer for all eternity in the worse possible way imaginable. At the time, I genuinely felt sorry for him for having so much hate in his heart.

I think a God of unconditional love would be a little more forgiving. I imagine God would use His omnipotent powers of forgiveness to forgive even Hitler. So for me, it doesn't matter who gets into Heaven to experience eternally Heavenly bliss. As long as everyone experiences Heavenly bliss it's all good. Life is too short and frustrating to take or have so much joy in other people's suffering. I think God loves each us with no conditions. It doesn't matter what happens in our lives. God forgives everything equally.

This is what makes God so great! God is capable of levels of love unimaginable by spiteful, hateful, revengeful human beings. I think my way of thinking is true because based on human experiments there is no amount of evil God will not tolerate in order to preserve our free-will. I don't think God is indifferent or doesn't care. I just think God is just very quick to forgive and is always giving people second, third, and fourth chances for us to have the opportunity to be the best they can be.
I can crack a smile because I'm from Jersey :)
I find No eternal damnation in Scripture but that the wicked will be destroyed forever - Psalms 92:7
Sinning souls die and can be destroyed according to Ezekiel 18:4,20; Acts of the Apostles 3:23
Since the 'dead know nothing' - Ecclesiastes 9:5; Psalms 115:17; Isaiah 38:18; John 11:11-14 -
then there is No reason to worry about any post-mortem penalty or double jeopardy.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
What is the definition of 'heavenly bliss'?
To be heavenly bliss would be peace and the absence of troubles:
No pollution in heaven
No violence/terrorism in heaven
No crime in heaven
No thieves in heaven
No war in heaven
No bombs bursting in air in heaven
No sickness in heaven
No dying in heaven
No tombs in heaven
No one dies in heaven
Plus, we ask for those heavenly conditions to come to earth. 'Thy will (God's purpose) be done on earth as it is in heaven'.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
What if Hitler has no intentions of ever changing, and is totally incapable of change?
Then it would be best to just punish him for the measure of his crimes, and then cease him to exist. No sense in having an eternal damnation.
Or perhaps there is some master creator adjustments that can be made to the soul. Omniscience should be able to fix the soul because there is not one thing God could not do to the entity of the soul. Taking away that which was abused might seem to have an appreciation affect on any individual.
Hell would be the absence of goodness. That might be the fix. Or it might not change him one bit. It might make him worse. I tend to think it would help because that is brutal what he did.

The whole price tag that sin pays according to Romans 6:23,7 is: "DEATH"
Nowhere does it say ' death plus ' anything else. No post-mortem penalty, No double jeopardy for sin.
The wicked ( totally Not wanting to change ) are ' destroyed forever ' - Psalms 92:7; Proverbs 2:21-22
The wicked ' perish ' ( cease to ever exist again ) - 2 Peter 3:9

Adam did Not become a 'living soul' until God breathed the breath of life into lifeless Adam - Genesis 2:7
At death Adam became a 'dead soul', a lifeless soul or person.
Adam simply ' returned ' to where he started from the dust of the ground as per Genesis 3:19
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Hell is where people who like idea of hell gether.
I wonder to which hell are you referring____ the Bible's hell, or some religious-myth hell just taught as Scripture_____
False clergy often us a non-biblical hell teaching as Scripture to try to control the flock of God.
Biblical hell is just mankind's temporary stone-cold grave for the sleeping dead.
( This is what Jesus and the OT teach -> Psalms 115:17; Isaiah 38:18; Ecclesiastes 9:5; John 11:11-14 )
Can anyone think of anyone righteous who went to hell the day he died _________
According to gospel writer Luke righteous Jesus went to hell the day he died - Acts of the Apostles 2:27
If biblical hell was a permanent place then Jesus would still be in hell.
When King James translated the word Gehenna into English as hell fire that put the flames in hell.
Gehenna was just a garbage pit outside of Jerusalem where things were destroyed forever Not burning forever.
So, Gehenna is a fitting word for destruction. Destruction as Psalms 92:7 says the wicked are destroyed forever.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
I once had an argument with a born again Christian on the nature of God. I really got this guy upset and he started talking about eternal damnation and where my soul was going to go when I die. I said, "How bad can it be? It can't be worse than living in New Jersey." He did not crack a smile.

I had to work with this guy so I tried to smooth things over by talking about the metaphysics of Hell. I told him the suffering Hell cannot be repetitive because you would get use to it. I said the suffering in Hell had to be like an irrational number, that is, never ending and never repeating otherwise you would get used to it. With a glean in his eye and the smile on his face like an angry wolf about to devour fresh meat he said, "Yeah, that's it." He was actually very please with the idea I would suffer for all eternity in the worse possible way imaginable. At the time, I genuinely felt sorry for him for having so much hate in his heart.

I think a God of unconditional love would be a little more forgiving. I imagine God would use His omnipotent powers of forgiveness to forgive even Hitler. So for me, it doesn't matter who gets into Heaven to experience eternally Heavenly bliss. As long as everyone experiences Heavenly bliss it's all good. Life is too short and frustrating to take or have so much joy in other people's suffering. I think God loves each us with no conditions. It doesn't matter what happens in our lives. God forgives everything equally.

This is what makes God so great! God is capable of levels of love unimaginable by spiteful, hateful, revengeful human beings. I think my way of thinking is true because based on human experiments there is no amount of evil God will not tolerate in order to preserve our free-will. I don't think God is indifferent or doesn't care. I just think God is just very quick to forgive and is always giving people second, third, and fourth chances for us to have the opportunity to be the best they can be.

I, particularly, don't want to wait to find out. Having accepted Jesus as Lord, the interpretation of Hell is no longer a big issue. Have no desire to find out by experience either.

If I know where the line is, i don't want to see how close I can walk to the line. I'm going to love God with all of my heart.
 
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