The Folly of Atheism

Catholicus · Jul 23, 2019

Altfish said:
If you're an atheist that is total rubbish.
God is not in our equation or universe; it makes a lot more sense.

Your universe is an impossibility.

Bob the Unbeliever · Jul 23, 2019

Catholicus said:
"Myths" , i.e. stories.

Many stories are true.

Yes-- but none of the bible stories are. Ain't that a peach? Your Highest Holy Book has not a single true tale within it's covers.

We know that, because we have actual History -- from artifacts and the detritus of civilization.

And none of the Major Stories in the bible? Ever took place-- not a one.

Hmmmmm......

Bob the Unbeliever · Jul 23, 2019

Catholicus said:
Your universe is an impossibility.

At least we don't claim it came from Nothing-- like Bible Thumpers do...

The Big Bang Theory? Begins with a Something. And it ain't God, neither....

Bob the Unbeliever · Jul 23, 2019

Catholicus said:
They often are considered.

They need counselling and kindness; not abortion.

And they get NEITHER from your sort of person. Just FORCED BIRTH -- even if their bodies would be destroyed in the process-- but you don't give one care in the slightest for the mothers.

Catholicus · Jul 23, 2019

Bob the Unbeliever said:
Citation needed: Prove it. No? Well... there you go, then!

As for "dying while in agony"? Oh PLEASE! Immortal Being, remember? Less bothersome than a HANGNAIL.

The WORST was Jesus was mildly inconvienced-- he had to change his Weekend Plans or something.

An immortal being cannot begin to understand the agony of a mortal death.

Not good enough-- maliciously evil.

Or incredibly incompetent.

Either works -- but your sad claims, above? Don't.

You need to provide a citation; disprove it !

Jesus was fully Divine and fully human.

In His human nature, He was mortal and suffered appalling agony.

You really do lack a knowledge of Christianity.

ArtieE · Jul 23, 2019

Catholicus said:
Polytheism ? - the Church condemned the heresy of tritheism many centuries ago.

Christians and Jews are polytheistic obviously. At least those who believe in the Bible. "When all the other gods have come together, the Lord God judges them and says:" Psalm 82:1 God presides in the divine assembly; He renders judgment among the gods:

Catholicus · Jul 23, 2019

Bob the Unbeliever said:
Nope. It is no older than about 300CE-- and came from a Bronze Age culture that still practiced Slave-keeping and worse.

The Roman Empire Bronze Age ? The Gospels dating from 300 AD ?

- Just how ignorant are you ?

Yes, the Roman kept slaves - yes, Christianity ended slavery.

Catholicus · Jul 23, 2019

Altfish said:
Why invent god as the first cause???

Why not science instead?
Why is "I'm not sure" not a good answer?

No - we haven't invented God.

God has invented us - we wouldn't exist otherwise.

Bob the Unbeliever · Jul 23, 2019

Catholicus said:
You need to provide a citation; disprove it !.

No. Shifting The Burden Of Proof Logical Fallacy: it is AUTOMATICALLY FALSE, unless YOU prove otherwise.

YOU failed-- 100% -- to prove otherwise. Therefore? FALSE.

Catholicus said:
Jesus was fully Divine and fully human..

Nonsense. You cannot have a square-circle. Impossible Beings do not exist. So that claim is simply dismissed on the face of it-- you are describing a Married Bachelor--- a nonsensical thing.

Catholicus said:
In His human nature, He was mortal and suffered appalling agony..

So what? He was an IMMORTAL GOD. As such? The "agony" was less of an issue than a mosquito byte.

Dismissed as Nonsense.
The idea that an Immortal God could feel Mortal Pain is a Mockery to ALL MORTAL PAIN.

Catholicus said:
You really do lack a knowledge of Christianity.

On the contrary-- it is that I DO understand it... all TOO WELL. Why do you think I REJECT it?

Catholicus · Jul 23, 2019

Bob the Unbeliever said:
That is 100% false in both cases and you know it. But keep on telling those comforting lies.

Nope. Hitler's own words state he was Doing Christ's Holy Work. I have actual photographs of him attending Catholic Mass. There are hundreds of these photographs connecting the NAZI party to the Catholic Church.
View attachment 31193

That's not actually what Hitler believed---- in fact, it's the opposite-- he believed in BIRTHRIGHT.

You know-- God's Special Favorites --- Born That Way exactly like the bible talks of which is no doubt where he GOT the ideas in the FIRST PLACE.

100% false claim-- unbelievers and atheists were the first to be burnt. Followed by Gypsies, Jews, Pagans and any other non-christian group. Heck-- even Christians were put to the Inquisition, if they were the "wrong sort" of "christian"....!

As one Pope said? "Kill them all, God knows his own"

Hitler said he was doing "Christ's holy work" ?

And you BELIEVE that he was being sincere when he said that ??

Your massive ignorance of Christian history still shines through - the Spanish Inquisition (controlled by the Spanish monarchy, not the Church) didn't burn self-declared Jews; only some of those who had converted to Christianity whom it believed were heretics. The Rome Inquisition wasn't involved in this.

When did the Church persecute Gypsies or Pagans ? Or Atheists for that matter ?

It didn't.

Bob the Unbeliever · Jul 23, 2019

Catholicus said:
The Roman Empire Bronze Age ? The Gospels dating from 300 AD ?.

yes, and yes.

Catholicus said:
- Just how ignorant are you ?.

Certainly not indoctrinated into a Giant Pack Of Lies. And certainly you have failed to show otherwise...

So. How about YOU?

Catholicus said:
Yes, the Roman kept slaves - yes, Christianity ended slavery.

Yes, and liar-- christianity FOUGHT TO KEEP slaves, in the South. Literally.

They used the PRO-SLAVE bible too! Any book that describes how to CARE FOR SLAVES-- and does not Explicitly FORBID HAVING SLAVES?

IS ENTIRELY IMMORAL.

Catholicus · Jul 23, 2019

Valjean said:
You're preaching, and not giving any evidence to support your claims. Do you expect anyone to believe this fantastic claim without hard evidence?
Wait -- aren't you Christians always saying that everything must have a cause? Yet God has none?
I'm still waiting for some real evidence. I don't see why a God is necessary. The universe unfolds just as the indifferent, undirected laws of physics dictate.
Physics. Chemistry. Biology....

You don't have to invoke a magical force to explain an automobile moving by itself. The capacity for movement is inevitable given its mechanical structure and the chemistry of combustion. But for the mechanically ignorant, such movement might appear miraculous, and they would attempt to fit it into whatever world-view they were familiar with. Perhaps they'd ascribe it to a magical deity.
What are we to think if they refuse to consider the explanations of those familiar with automotive mechanics, dig in their heels and insist there must needs be a magical "explanation" involving some invisible mover.
We get really frustrated by obtuseness like this.

Where do the laws of physics come from ? Who or what created them ?

God being the Cause of everything, doesn't Himself need a Cause.

With regard to human inventions like autos, we ourselves are playing the part of God, using His laws of physics in the process.

Bob the Unbeliever · Jul 23, 2019

Catholicus said:
Hitler said he was doing "Christ's holy work" ?.

Yep. That's what he believed he was doing. Since "Christ" was (and remains) Unavailable For Comment?

We have to take Hitler's Word for it-- as there is no "higher authority" that says otherwise.

Catholicus said:
And you BELIEVE that he was being sincere when he said that ??.

Looking at Christianity Through History? Absolutely I think he believed what he wrote.

The famous Pope: "Kill them all, God knows his Own" is too recent to be quickly forgotten.

Catholicus said:
Your massive ignorance of Christian history still shines through - the Spanish Inquisition (controlled by the Spanish monarchy, not the Church) didn't burn self-declared Jews; only some of those who had converted to Christianity whom it believed were heretics. The Rome Inquisition wasn't involved in this..

Lies-- but it's hardly surprising you'd LIE about one of YOUR CHURCH'S WORST ATROCITIES.

Catholicus said:
When did the Church persecute Gypsies or Pagans ? Or Atheists for that matter ?

It didn't.

Wow.... just.... effing WOW. Those are some SERIOUS BLINDERS you have on!

Catholicus · Jul 23, 2019

Bob the Unbeliever said:
100% false. The USA? Operates under a SECULAR CONSTITUTION-- as Godless as you could ask for. In fact, The Constitution has Strict Language that forbids FOR OR AGAINST GOD OF ANY SORT. It was written DELIBERATELY NEUTRAL to god-claims.

But wait! Here in the USA? Religion is dying out.

Atheist/agnostics/non-believers? Now make up roughly 20% of the US Population-- if you factor in "not religious"? It's even higher!

The next closest Religious Group is Catholics, at roughly 20% -- these two are neck-and-neck.

All the rest of the various Religious Groups make up ever smaller fractions.

It would be disingenuos of you to lump all religious groups into one group-- as none recognize the others as being "One True Religions" --- the best, see the others as "dumb, backwards step children that need more education"

Christianity dying out in the USA ?

To some extent. Two reasons:

Politicised and bigoted Christian leaders - showing much greater Love for Money than for God - have put many off religion.

The other reason is that the USA itself is dying, like the rest of the Western world.

ArtieE · Jul 23, 2019

Catholicus said:
No - we haven't invented God.

God has invented us - we wouldn't exist otherwise.

For those who want to know how we invented God here's a good video.

Bob the Unbeliever · Jul 23, 2019

Catholicus said:
Where do the laws of physics come from ? Who or what created them ?

God being the Cause of everything, doesn't Himself need a Cause.
.

Who says they need to be created? And where did the creator come from, then?

Special Pleading Logical Fallacy-- if this ... ahem... "creator" doesn't need a cause?

NEITHER DOES THE UNIVERSE!

Catholicus said:
With regard to human inventions like autos, we ourselves are playing the part of God, using His laws of physics in the process.

LMAO! False Dichotomy or something -- can't be bothered to look up your Logical Fallacy here, it's so WRONG on so MANY levels.

We know about Automobiles--because we can SEE THEM BEING MADE.

Show Me Your God-- Have Him Say 'Hi'

ssshh--let gods speak for themselves.jpg

Catholicus · Jul 23, 2019

Bob the Unbeliever said:
Logic? What logic would this be? So far, I've not seen any from you.

Indeed they are-- no more silly than "god", actually. And both pixies and god have the exact same logical support: None.

Not logical. Threats that nobody can actually demonstrate. And you ask why we think you're being silly!

Indeed: childhood indoctrination can be quite strong, and difficult to resist-- it takes a pretty strong will to question what was forced into your child-mind from birth.

Not me-- my parents both died True Believers™. I was raised Fundamentalist Christian™ -- in the One True Church™ (or so I was told at the time... one of many lies I was told at the time...)

I sneer at "god" because every single concept of "god" I've since been presented with? Was Unworthy of the Title.

Most Damning? The presence of God Preventable Large Scale Catastrophic Evil.

As God didn't save Himself from suffering on the Cross, every suffering person is the suffering Christ.

It is obvious that each of us will one day have to meet his or her creator. It is wishful thinking to pretend otherwise.

Bob the Unbeliever · Jul 23, 2019

Catholicus said:
Christianity dying out in the USA ?.

Yep. I listed like 10 links to articles discussing the issue.

Catholicus said:
To some extent. Two reasons:

Politicised and bigoted Christian leaders - showing much greater Love for Money than for God - have put many off religion..

It's as if there was NO GOD TO CURB THESE GODLY MEN. Isn't it?

Either your god is just FINE with this corruption?

Or your god CANNOT DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT? (incompetent)

Or simply isn't there in the first place...

Catholicus said:
The other reason is that the USA itself is dying, like the rest of the Western world.

LMAO! Oh. My. Move to Saudi Arabia, then-- you'd LOVE it there! Atheists are imprisoned and killed out of hand.

JUST your sort of People-- everyone is a Theist-- or else.

Bob the Unbeliever · Jul 23, 2019

Catholicus said:
As God didn't save Himself from suffering on the Cross, every suffering person is the suffering Christ..

An immortal being cannot experience MORTAL suffering. Your MYTH makes a JOKE of actual, human suffering.

It is SICK.

Catholicus · Jul 23, 2019

Bob the Unbeliever said:
No. Shifting The Burden Of Proof Logical Fallacy: it is AUTOMATICALLY FALSE, unless YOU prove otherwise.

YOU failed-- 100% -- to prove otherwise. Therefore? FALSE.

Nonsense. You cannot have a square-circle. Impossible Beings do not exist. So that claim is simply dismissed on the face of it-- you are describing a Married Bachelor--- a nonsensical thing.

So what? He was an IMMORTAL GOD. As such? The "agony" was less of an issue than a mosquito byte.

Dismissed as Nonsense.
The idea that an Immortal God could feel Mortal Pain is a Mockery to ALL MORTAL PAIN.

On the contrary-- it is that I DO understand it... all TOO WELL. Why do you think I REJECT it?

"Nothing is impossible to God" - and as we are made "in the image and likeness of God" - Jesus was both fully human and fully God.

He suffered as a human being (He really was a Jewish rabbi as well as God).

The Folly of Atheism

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