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Monotheism and Christianity

LightofTruth

Well-Known Member
The Trinitarian concept is monotheistic, with Jesus and the Holy Spirit being of the essence of God the Father but not the Father.
Actually, the Trinitarian concept is not monotheistic because it claims three persons to be God. Jesus' God is the Father. Monotheism means that the One God has no God Himself.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
Actually, the Trinitarian concept is not monotheistic because it claims three persons to be God. Jesus' God is the Father.
Again, that's simply not at all true:
The Christian doctrine of the Trinity (Latin: Trinitas, lit. 'triad', from Latin: trinus"threefold") holds that God is one God, but three coeternal consubstantial persons or hypostases —the Father, the Son (Jesus Christ), and the Holy Spirit—as "one God in three Divine Persons"...

"The Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit" are not names for different parts of God, but one name for God because three persons exist in God as one entity. They cannot be separate from one another. Each person is understood as having the identical essence or nature, not merely similar natures...
-- Trinity - Wikipedia

I am a son, a father, and a husband, so am I three different people? No, I am one with difference "essences".
 

usfan

Well-Known Member
Most references to 'gods' in the OT carry with it the implication of 'false!'

Deut32:17They sacrificed to false gods, which are not God-- gods they had not known, gods that recently appeared, gods your ancestors did not fear.

The affirmation of ONE TRUE GOD, is a continuous theme, in the OT.

And in the NT, it is emphasized and reaffirmed.

1co8:4..We know that “An idol is nothing at all in the world” and that “There is no God but one.” 5For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”), 6yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live

Many more passages, in both old and new testaments, confirm this description. There is nothing supporting polytheism in the bible. Everything in context. God is One.
 

LightofTruth

Well-Known Member
Again, that's simply not at all true:
The Christian doctrine of the Trinity (Latin: Trinitas, lit. 'triad', from Latin: trinus"threefold") holds that God is one God, but three coeternal consubstantial persons or hypostases —the Father, the Son (Jesus Christ), and the Holy Spirit—as "one God in three Divine Persons"...

"The Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit" are not names for different parts of God, but one name for God because three persons exist in God as one entity. They cannot be separate from one another. Each person is understood as having the identical essence or nature, not merely similar natures...
-- Trinity - Wikipedia

I am a son, a father, and a husband, so am I three different people? No, I am one with difference "essences".
The name of the Father is YHWH. The name of the son is Jesus. The Holy Spirit has no name because it is the Spirit of the Father.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
The name of the Father is YHWH.
In Hebrew.

The name of the son is Jesus.
In English.

The Holy Spirit has no name because it is the Spirit of the Father.
"Holy Spirit" by name is used 91 times in the NT, and you can see this here at the link: Bible, Revised Standard Version

Again, you even blow off a non-partisan reference to the fact the the Trinitarian concept poses one God, so your citing of an "alternative fact" won't change that reality. You're trying to tell us what we supposedly believe that clearly is false.

One can disagree with the Tinnitarian concept, and that's all fine & dandy, but please don't stoop to telling us what we supposedly believe that is clearly false.
 

dianaiad

Well-Known Member
Really, more scripture than me ? I have the Bible, the only scripture that counts.

Well, I'm sure you believe so, and believe so sincerely.

However, the Hindus would disagree, as would Muslims...

And while I do believe in the bible 'as far as it is translated correctly," I also have the Book of Mormon, the Pearl of Great Price and the Doctrine and Covenants. Our canon isn't closed.

Absolutely I can understand where you are here, but the point is, I have these other books as well to aid me in making decisions about religious stuff. That, and personal answer to prayer.

Not asking you to accept them, mind you. Just telling you that I do.
 

shmogie

Well-Known Member
Well, I'm sure you believe so, and believe so sincerely.

However, the Hindus would disagree, as would Muslims...

And while I do believe in the bible 'as far as it is translated correctly," I also have the Book of Mormon, the Pearl of Great Price and the Doctrine and Covenants. Our canon isn't closed.

Absolutely I can understand where you are here, but the point is, I have these other books as well to aid me in making decisions about religious stuff. That, and personal answer to prayer.

Not asking you to accept them, mind you. Just telling you that I do.
And of course, I do not accept them. The 19th century produced a number of ¨prophets¨ from my sola scriptura position, all false, all meant to lead people astray.

Don´t we live in a great country, where wr are free to believe and practice our faith virtually unhindered ? It won´t always be like that.
 

sooda

Veteran Member
Christianity adhere tightly. I've spent some time looking through the Bible concerning the subject. I have found the following.


Psalms 82 1 God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.

Psalms 96 4 For the Lord is great, and greatly to be praised: he is to be feared above all gods. 5 For all the gods of the nations are idols: but the Lord made the heavens.

Psalms 82 6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High. 7 But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes. 8 Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations.

Psalms 86 8 Among the gods there is none like unto thee, O Lord; neither are there any works like unto thy works.

Psalms 95 3 For the Lord is a great God, and a great King above all gods.

Psalms 97 9 For thou, Lord, art high above all the earth: thou art exalted far above all gods.

Psalms 136 2 O give thanks unto the God of gods: for his mercy endureth for ever.

I Samuel 28 13 And the king said unto her, Be not afraid: for what sawest thou? And the woman said unto Saul, I saw gods ascending out of the earth.


My questions is, what Biblically builds the case for monotheism in Christianity?

The Canaanites had lots of gods and so did the Babylonians... Over time the Hebrew tribe decided their god was the best. Religion evolved over time.
 

LightofTruth

Well-Known Member
In Hebrew.

In English.

"Holy Spirit" by name is used 91 times in the NT, and you can see this here at the link: Bible, Revised Standard Version

Again, you even blow off a non-partisan reference to the fact the the Trinitarian concept poses one God, so your citing of an "alternative fact" won't change that reality. You're trying to tell us what we supposedly believe that clearly is false.

One can disagree with the Tinnitarian concept, and that's all fine & dandy, but please don't stoop to telling us what we supposedly believe that is clearly false.

Holy Spirit is NOT a name! It is the Spirit of the Father.

The word spirit means wind or breath and it is a vital principle of living creatures.

The Trinitarian translators of the KJV knew that 'wind' or 'breath'and the vital principle of living creatures does not describe a personal name, so they altered the text and translated 'Spirit' as 'Ghost' in an attempt to give the Spirit of God a name. As if the breath of life from God is a Ghost person. LOL
 
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metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
Holy Spirit is NOT a name! It is the Spirit of the Father.
Except the translators familiar with Koine Greek wrote it as a name, and that stands to common sense since after Jesus died some had to be rebaptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Almost all Christian denominations use this terminology, but apparently your church prefers to ignore what the Bible actually teaches. Here: Matthew 28[19] Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, ...

Notice that "Father" and "Holy Spirit" are separate.

As if the breath of life from God is a Ghost person. LOL
The word is "spirit" that's most commonly used, which is why I refer to the "Holy Spirit" rather than the "Holy Ghost".

Instead of being so arrogant and sarcastic with the "LOL" you posted above, maybe try and be more considerate and compassionate, which is what Jesus actually taught us to do.
 

Sand Dancer

Crazy Cat Lady
Christianity adhere tightly. I've spent some time looking through the Bible concerning the subject. I have found the following.


Psalms 82 1 God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.

Psalms 96 4 For the Lord is great, and greatly to be praised: he is to be feared above all gods. 5 For all the gods of the nations are idols: but the Lord made the heavens.

Psalms 82 6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High. 7 But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes. 8 Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations.

Psalms 86 8 Among the gods there is none like unto thee, O Lord; neither are there any works like unto thy works.

Psalms 95 3 For the Lord is a great God, and a great King above all gods.

Psalms 97 9 For thou, Lord, art high above all the earth: thou art exalted far above all gods.

Psalms 136 2 O give thanks unto the God of gods: for his mercy endureth for ever.

I Samuel 28 13 And the king said unto her, Be not afraid: for what sawest thou? And the woman said unto Saul, I saw gods ascending out of the earth.


My questions is, what Biblically builds the case for monotheism in Christianity?

The first time the Bible talks about pure monotheism is in second Isaiah.
 

LightofTruth

Well-Known Member
Except the translators familiar with Koine Greek wrote it as a name, and that stands to common sense since after Jesus died some had to be rebaptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Almost all Christian denominations use this terminology, but apparently your church prefers to ignore what the Bible actually teaches. Here: Matthew 28[19] Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, ...


After Jesus gave the commission to baptize in the name of the Father and of the son and of the Holy Spirit the disciples went and baptized in the name of Jesus only. However, after they were baptized in the name of Jesus they received the gift of the Father which was the Holy Spirit.

Baptized persons were not given the gift of the third person of a Trinity they were given gifts that enabled them to have certain powers.



Notice that "Father" and "Holy Spirit" are separate.
That doesn't make the Holy Spirit another person!

The word is "spirit" that's most commonly used, which is why I refer to the "Holy Spirit" rather than the "Holy Ghost".

The word "Ghost" was NEVER a proper translation for "Spirit".

A Ghost person does not proceed from the Father. God's Spirit proceeds from God. The one person there is the Father.

Instead of being so arrogant and sarcastic with the "LOL" you posted above, maybe try and be more considerate and compassionate, which is what Jesus actually taught us to do.

You claiming "Holy Spirit" is a name does not make it so.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
After Jesus gave the commission to baptize in the name of the Father and of the son and of the Holy Spirit the disciples went and baptized in the name of Jesus only.
Originally, yes, but that changed after Pentecost. Again:

Matthew 28[19] Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,...

I think that's pretty clear, plus the fact that "Holy Spirit" is used 91 times in the NT.

That doesn't make the Holy Spirit another person!
The Holy Spirit is not a person but is part & parcel with God in regards to God's "essence", much like I'm a son, a father, and husband, etc.

Again, I linked you to how "essence" is used throughout much of the Bible, but it appears you have no real interest in reading that which could really could help to explain this to you.

The word "Ghost" was NEVER a proper translation for "Spirit".
Which is what I basically said.

You claiming "Holy Spirit" is a name does not make it so.
Well, maybe then tell the translators that they're wrong and that you're right. "Holy Spirit" logically must be a name if it says in the NT that we are to "baptize them in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit". If it's just the Father or just Jesus, why use three different names that also mentions the "Holy Spirit"?

Anyhow, I'm moving on, so I'll give you the last word on this. Take care.
 

Samael_Khan

Goosebender
Watch this:


Benjamin Sommer is a Jewish scholar. He speaks about Jews believing, before Maimonides, that YHWH had Fluidity of Divine Selfness and Multiplicity of Bodies. I just started reading the book, but it seems that Ancient Israel at one point and Christianity have an ancient near eastern view of the nature of a god, that YHWH could fragment himself into Avatars (with the pagans one god fragmenting into many idols at the same time, with the idols becoming a living incarnation of that god, while the god still existed in the spirit realm simultaneously), making them God and having a God because they still had individual personalities, while the rest of him still existed in the heavens. For instance, the way Jesus as being God but also not being God seems similar to how the Gods of the near East could become one with each other but also individuals at the same time. The idea is foreign to the west as we are influenced by the Greeks view of the nature of God which is a God can only be at one place at a time and cannot fragment with the consciousness of that God being present in each fragment.

When the Bible refers to YHWH being the only true God, while all other gods are impotent idols, the Bible is saying that the pagan gods are not real because their idols are not incarnations of that god. They are lifeless. And they therefore cannot do anything.

I could be wrong because I am just starting to study this understanding of God and gods, but it is fascinating. When it comes to God we try to rationalize the unknown, which we cannot fathom, and then get into arguments about it.

If this understanding of the nature of God in the Bible is actually what the bible is saying, then pointing out that Jesus had a God, had a father, that the father was greater than him, etc, is irrelevant, as the man Jesus was an Avatar for YHWH. He was a fragment of God incarnated into human flesh.
 

tayla

My dog's name is Tayla
what Biblically builds the case for monotheism in Christianity?
Certainly not the Old Testament. Since Christianity is based on the foundation of the Old Testament, it seems to me your observation that the Old Testament speaks of gods proves Christianity to be false.
 

Neutral Name

Active Member
Christianity adhere tightly. I've spent some time looking through the Bible concerning the subject. I have found the following.


Psalms 82 1 God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods.

Psalms 96 4 For the Lord is great, and greatly to be praised: he is to be feared above all gods. 5 For all the gods of the nations are idols: but the Lord made the heavens.

Psalms 82 6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High. 7 But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes. 8 Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations.

Psalms 86 8 Among the gods there is none like unto thee, O Lord; neither are there any works like unto thy works.

Psalms 95 3 For the Lord is a great God, and a great King above all gods.

Psalms 97 9 For thou, Lord, art high above all the earth: thou art exalted far above all gods.

Psalms 136 2 O give thanks unto the God of gods: for his mercy endureth for ever.

I Samuel 28 13 And the king said unto her, Be not afraid: for what sawest thou? And the woman said unto Saul, I saw gods ascending out of the earth.


My questions is, what Biblically builds the case for monotheism in Christianity?

Yes, I have seen those passages before and I read that the early Jews were not monotheistic but chose Jehovah/Yahweh. I would have to do some research to elaborate because I don't remember the entirety of it.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
Yes, I have seen those passages before and I read that the early Jews were not monotheistic but chose Jehovah/Yahweh. I would have to do some research to elaborate because I don't remember the entirety of it.
Much appears to have been passed down from the Sumerians, who were polytheistic. Even some of the names we have for God in Hebrew are names of Sumerian deities, such as El, which shows up as "Eloheim" in Hebrew.

"Allah" is also from that El Tradition btw.
 

Neutral Name

Active Member
Much appears to have been passed down from the Sumerians, who were polytheistic. Even some of the names we have for God in Hebrew are names of Sumerian deities, such as El, which shows up as "Eloheim" in Hebrew.

"Allah" is also from that El Tradition btw.

Thank you, that is interesting and something I have pondered often.
 
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