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Looking for people who have some aim or purpose in these forums

Jim

Nets of Wonder
My purpose is essentially philosophical, trying to reconcile my own perceived Humanist ideals, and my understanding of human nature, with the religious impulses that others have. If that's of any interest, feel free to engage.
I don’t remember how I responded to that before, but that might interest me. Can you give me an introduction or some examples of your thoughts about that?
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
Jim said:
One or more of these:
- A light that I see in science and in some religions, behind clouds of contending beliefs that hide it from people, and repel them from it.

TBH, True and provable science is fully supported by the Bible....but theoretical science, is based more on assumption and conjecture, than on provable facts. Large portions of evolutionary science are not based on any verifiable facts. Just because a scientist suggests a possibility, doesn't make it fact.

OTOH, religious dogmatism regarding the Genesis account also raises problems when religion and science collide. Genesis does not necessarily support a "7 literal day" creation, forcing people to fly in the face of what science knows. Neither side actually recognises their own errors.

These are the things that hide the truth from both sides because each have their specific dogma. Not knowing the difference between fact and fiction is the problem IMO. Both promote their own position as the only correct one. But both base their position on "belief" rather than fact.

There is middle ground, but those stuck in their unassailable positions will not even entertain it.

- My ideas about the gospel of Jesus.

Do you see your ideas about the gospel of Jesus as different to what the scriptures teach? Religious ideas about Jesus are as numerous as the religions themselves, so what does personal opinion matter? The Bible is the only book that promotes the teachings of Jesus Christ......it contains the only truth. Interpretation is the problem.

- A kind of love that I think the world needs.

That's easy....."agape" is the most important kind of love promoted in the Bible. Understanding what it is and what it means in its expression is vital.......because only then can humans implement it in a real way.

- A kind of community life that I think the world needs, and that I want to practice and promote in online neighborhoods.

The concept of "Community" is dying....but that was foretold by Jesus for our day.
Because the most important kind of "love" was to all but disappear from the world....i.e. "Love of God and neighbor".....people's focus is now more inward rather that outward. There is a level of selfishness witnessed in the world today that we have never seen before as a global problem. Global problems need global solutions......no humans in power have the answer, because they do not possess the means or the will to make a difference even in their own nations.....but God long foretold a return to the way he meant humans to live. BUT....it will be accomplished by him, not us. It will mean removing all impediments that are currently in the way. (Daniel 2:44)

- Seeing through the smoke, dust and mirrors in forum debating, to see what people are thinking, as they see it.

There are as many opinions as there are people. At the end of the day, all we can do on Internet forums is to post an opinion and see who might agree. But the level of agreement is no indicator of the correctness of our chosen position. If one is a Christian, then we expect "few" to respond to the truth. (Matthew 7:13-14) I believe that is because it's ingrained in the human psyche to desire acceptance from others and to be part of a large number of like minded people in order to feel secure in our position. Christians have to see that this need in us can be exploited by God's enemy.

- Usefulness of modeling our relationship with the world around us as a personal relationship with someone who created us for that purpose.

I see your vision of the future, depending on humans to bring about "God's will on earth as it is in heaven" as something unattainable for us. You can't force people to love. You can force them to feign it, but if it does not come from the heart out of a willing spirit, of what value is it? The relationships of which you speak have to be motivated by love......the kind of love that is fast disappearing in this world, as Jesus said it would.

Jesus foretold for our time...."Then, too, many will be stumbled and will betray one another and will hate one another. 11 Many false prophets will arise and mislead many; 12 and because of the increasing of lawlessness, the love of the greater number will grow cold." (Matthew 24:10-12)

Increasing lawlessness creates an atmosphere of distrust....the very thing that kills love. Trust is what fosters love.

- Using Internet discussions to get ideas and encouragement from each other, for whatever good each of us is doing or hoping to do.

All we can give is our view. We can't impose it on others, but we can offer it as Jesus did. People will make up their own minds and come to their own conclusions......as they should, being in possession of free will. We are permitted to decide our own future. God can then judge people on what they have made of themselves. Isn't that fair?
 
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Kelly of the Phoenix

Well-Known Member
Do I have a purpose? I guess so. I like talking to different kinds of people, as I'm an introvert IRL and don't go around talking to people much outside of work or home. The only types of people I block are either hopelessly stupid or extremely hostile or hateful.

I gave up Christianity due to being hurt many times by the Christian community, by wolves in sheep's clothing.
Similar to me. I followed Jesus' advice to judge the tree by its fruit. I applied it to the bible and the religions associated with the stories and found the fruit lacking. I felt the only way to remain loyal to Jesus was to follow another rule: if it causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away.

Like for example, I wanted to get on female hormones because I didn't like myself the way it is... while the Bible doesn't say "Thou shall not change genders", I do think my problem stems from self-hatred, and some people can search answers elsewhere than Jesus/the Bible, but it becomes exhausting when one has to be their own God, so to speak.
Well, Jesus DOES say some men don't have balls and we should accept it. That's about as close to trans rights as we're going to get.

I've used this forum to help me think. I've used it to do Bible study on Genesis and Matthew. I was hoping to finish so that I could write a book but I'm not there yet...got "distracted" by the Mahabharata.
It's my favorite story so far. It's got many of the same gists as the bible but is much better thought out.
 

Jim

Nets of Wonder
TBH, True and provable science is fully supported by the Bible....but theoretical science, is based more on assumption and conjecture, than on provable facts. Large portions of evolutionary science are not based on any verifiable facts. Just because a scientist suggests a possibility, doesn't make it fact.
When I’ve probed into what people think they know, that they’re calling “science,” it always turns out to be what they’ve read or heard about the opinions of some undefined category of people that they call “scientists.” It might be mostly people with science degrees. It looks to me like they discount entirely the views of some scientists, and don’t make any distinctions in reliability between the others.
OTOH, religious dogmatism regarding the Genesis account also raises problems when religion and science collide. Genesis does not necessarily support a "7 literal day" creation, forcing people to fly in the face of what science knows.
I haven’t done any research here on what people think that they know from their scriptures. Whenever I’ve probed into it offline, every person who has preached to me about what the Bible says, has refused, literally refused to read even one of the gospels all the way through, telling me reasons why they don’t need or want to do that. Now I’m curious, and I might want to do some research on where people get their ideas from, that they think are from their scriptures. I know that they have memorized some verses in isolation from their context, as proof of what they think, but where are they getting their ideas from, about what to think and which verses to use?
These are the things that hide the truth from both sides because each have their specific dogma.
Part of what I see hiding the light, which I think is very different from what anyone means by “the truth,” is people focusing on beliefs associated with religions, and ignoring their stories, and the fellowship of people following the light, across all belief divides. Another part of what I see hiding the light is the rivalry across religious lines, and across lines that people draw between science and religion.
Do you see your ideas about the gospel of Jesus as different to what the scriptures teach?
No.
The Bible is the only book that promotes the teachings of Jesus Christ ...
I disagree, but however that may be, I test all my ideas about the gospel of Jesus against what He says about it in the gospels.
That's easy....."agape" is the most important kind of love promoted in the Bible. Understanding what it is and what it means in its expression is vital.......because only then can humans implement it in a real way.
For me, all that does is substitute one ambiguous word in the place of another. I don’t know of any single word that a person could say, for me to know if they’re thinking of the same kind of love as the kind I’m thinking of. Part of what I’m thinking of is warm feelings and friendly intentions towards all people and all of nature. I see a possible approach to it in what people sometimes call “communing with nature.”
The concept of "Community" is dying ...
Maybe for some people, but not for others. I’m a witness. My concept of community has been growing better and stronger most of my life, and I’m seeing it actually happening more and better, year after year, in an ever-increasing number of neighborhoods and villages all around the world.
Global problems need global solutions......no humans in power have the answer, because they do not possess the means or the will to make a difference even in their own nations ...
It looks to me like in governments and other institutions at all levels, other interests come ahead of solving the problems, but even with the best intentions there’s nothing they can do to stop the cruelty and violence until the love grows and spreads enough to overpower it.
... but God long foretold a return to the way he meant humans to live. BUT....it will be accomplished by him, not us. It will mean removing all impediments that are currently in the way. (Daniel 2:44)
I think that He’s letting us help, like He always does, as part of our personal relationship with Him. I think that anyone who wants to can be part of the solution.
At the end of the day, all we can do on Internet forums is to post an opinion and see who might agree.
I see a lot more that anyone can do who wants to.
I believe that is because it's ingrained in the human psyche to desire acceptance from others and to be part of a large number of like minded people in order to feel secure in our position.
It looks to me like sometimes people fool themselves however much they need to, to feel welcome in some social circle.
I see your vision of the future, depending on humans to bring about "God's will on earth as it is in heaven" as something unattainable for us.
I’m not depending on humans to do it. I’m depending on God to do it. I see Him telling us how we can help if we want to, as part of our personal relationship with Him.
Increasing lawlessness creates an atmosphere of distrust....the very thing that kills love. Trust is what fosters love.
Yes.
All we can give is our view.
I see much more that anyone can do who wants to, besides that, for that to be fruitful and beneficial.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
When I’ve probed into what people think they know, that they’re calling “science,” it always turns out to be what they’ve read or heard about the opinions of some undefined category of people that they call “scientists.” It might be mostly people with science degrees. It looks to me like they discount entirely the views of some scientists, and don’t make any distinctions in reliability between the others.

I haven’t done any research here on what people think that they know from their scriptures. Whenever I’ve probed into it offline, every person who has preached to me about what the Bible says, has refused, literally refused to read even one of the gospels all the way through, telling me reasons why they don’t need or want to do that. Now I’m curious, and I might want to do some research on where people get their ideas from, that they think are from their scriptures. I know that they have memorized some verses in isolation from their context, as proof of what they think, but where are they getting their ideas from, about what to think and which verses to use?

Part of what I see hiding the light, which I think is very different from what anyone means by “the truth,” is people focusing on beliefs associated with religions, and ignoring their stories, and the fellowship of people following the light, across all belief divides. Another part of what I see hiding the light is the rivalry across religious lines, and across lines that people draw between science and religion.

No.

I disagree, but however that may be, I test all my ideas about the gospel of Jesus against what He says about it in the gospels.

For me, all that does is substitute one ambiguous word in the place of another. I don’t know of any single word that a person could say, for me to know if they’re thinking of the same kind of love as the kind I’m thinking of. Part of what I’m thinking of is warm feelings and friendly intentions towards all people and all of nature. I see a possible approach to it in what people sometimes call “communing with nature.”

Maybe for some people, but not for others. I’m a witness. My concept of community has been growing better and stronger most of my life, and I’m seeing it actually happening more and better, year after year, in an ever-increasing number of neighborhoods and villages all around the world.

It looks to me like in governments and other institutions at all levels, other interests come ahead of solving the problems, but even with the best intentions there’s nothing they can do to stop the cruelty and violence until the love grows and spreads enough to overpower it.

I think that He’s letting us help, like He always does, as part of our personal relationship with Him. I think that anyone who wants to can be part of the solution.

I see a lot more that anyone can do who wants to.

It looks to me like sometimes people fool themselves however much they need to, to feel welcome in some social circle.

I’m not depending on humans to do it. I’m depending on God to do it. I see Him telling us how we can help if we want to, as part of our personal relationship with Him.

Yes.

I see much more that anyone can do who wants to, besides that, for that to be fruitful and beneficial.

I notice you repeat "who wants to" as something humans could do if they had the right motivation.....but in all the thousands of years of human existence, wouldn't you think we would all "want to" by now? Why do so few "want to"?

The theme of Jesus' entire ministry was "the Kingdom of God".....yet so many who identify as Christians have no idea what it is exactly and they will give you some vague scripture about Jesus saying that it is "within you"...but that idea is not in sinc with any other scripture.

What do Baha'i's think God's Kingdom is, and what do you personally think it is?
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
There might be as much divergence between the views of different Baha’is about that, as there is in all the rest of society. For my views about it, see this thread:

Looking for volunteers for me to talk to about the gospel of Jesus

OK....you asked....

I’m looking for volunteers for me to talk to about what I think about the gospel of Jesus.

Jesus calls His gospel the “gospel of the kingdom,” the kingdom that He calls the “kingdom of God” and the “kingdom of heaven.” He uses analogies to describe it, for example:
- like a net cast into the sea, and some things it gathered were put into vessels and others thrown away.
- like a king who, when the people he invited to his son’s wedding refused to go, brought in people from the highways.
- like a man who sold everything he has to buy a field where he found a treasure.
- like a merchant with a collection of pearls who sold them all to buy one.

I won’t list all the analogies. Jesus says that people can enter that kingdom by following Him.

That’s it. That’s what I think about the gospel of Jesus. I’m hoping that there will be some comments and questions.

The Kingdom is described in the Bible as a government...a theocratic government of God's making with Jesus Christ as King. The "gospel" is "good news" about that Kingdom and what it will accomplish for the earth and the humans living on it.

When God created humans, he was their Sovereign Ruler who had the right to set the rules for life on this earth. That rulership was challenged by a 'pretender' who was given opportunity to prove that his way was better. He would rule the world and show humans how to live by his rules....and here we are....it was an exercise that resulted in total failure. Why? Because humans are created to be ruled by God, not each other. The minute you give a human power over others, it corrupts him.

Knowing the folly of humans trying to rule themselves, God long ago purposed for the means to bring the human race back into a relationship with him. He would set up a government to rule over this earth and finally bring about the conditions that humans lost in Eden.

Each one chosen for a position in that government would need to have lived as a human on earth in order for them to understand the human condition and to be compassionate priests during the 1,000 years it would take to undo all the damage caused by that original rebellion.

Daniel foretold that God's Kingdom would not be brought about by man, but by God. Not peaceably, but by force.

He said concerning the present world rulers....
“In the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed. And this kingdom will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it alone will stand forever". (Daniel 2:44)

This is speaking about a world government by God......one that will remove all corrupt human rulership and replace it with a government that will actually bring true peace and security to all of earth's inhabitants.

This Kingdom will "come" and it will result in God's will being "done on earth as it is in heaven". Christians are taught to pray for this Kingdom, but to most, these are just empty words repeated mindlessly in churches without a single thought about what they are actually asking for.

They are asking for a drastic change in world rulership.....and its coming, ready or not. Most are not ready.

That is how I see it.
 
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Jim

Nets of Wonder
@Deeje If you want to discuss the gospel of Jesus or the kingdom of heaven, I would rather do it in the other thread.
 

Jim

Nets of Wonder
Oh, looking in the mirror and bowing to your own reflection! :D

In that conversation, I thought of you as my guru. That felt good, that felt right to me, but I find that it doesn’t work for me with other people. Now when I remember, I try to think of each person as a fellow student, and that works very well for me.
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
Hindus take that meaning. 'Namaskar' means, I bow to the Supreme God/Brahman in you (not the person him/herself). But that is for theists. I am an atheist. Though I do believe in existence of Brahman, my Brahman does not require any formalities like bowing. :D
 

Daemon Sophic

Avatar in flux
OK.

“- A light that I see in science and in some religions, behind clouds of contending beliefs that hide it from people, and repel them from it.”

What do you believe is a method by which more people in general, as well as less scientifically inclined and more religiously/mythologically inclined persons can be more readily taught about scientific findings; even when those findings conflict with the person’s own religious teachings?
 

Jim

Nets of Wonder
OK.

“- A light that I see in science and in some religions, behind clouds of contending beliefs that hide it from people, and repel them from it.”

What do you believe is a method by which more people in general, as well as less scientifically inclined and more religiously/mythologically inclined persons can be more readily taught about scientific findings; even when those findings conflict with the person’s own religious teachings?
If you mean what I think you mean by “scientific findings,” that is not part of the light in science that I’m thinking of. It’s part of the clouds that I think are hiding the light from people, and repelling them away from it.

One possible way I see for people to see the light is by reading or hearing some of the human stories behind the revolution in physics.
 

Marcion

gopa of humanity's controversial Taraka Brahma
I’m looking for people who have some aim or purpose in posting about religious or anti-religious topics in these forums, that you might possibly be willing to discuss with me. I’m not saying that anyone should, just asking, because that would interest me.
My aim in this forum is to demonstrate that the separations or divisions between so-called religions are artificial and that we should rather focuss on what people or their spiritual or religious cults put into actual practice.

E.g. I do this with Christianity by demonstrating how the practical spiritual cult of the mission of Jesus was changed or shifted into the much more theoretical religious cult of Christianity by comparing their respective scriptures.
 

Jim

Nets of Wonder
OK.

“- A light that I see in science and in some religions, behind clouds of contending beliefs that hide it from people, and repel them from it.”

What do you believe is a method by which more people in general, as well as less scientifically inclined and more religiously/mythologically inclined persons can be more readily taught about scientific findings; even when those findings conflict with the person’s own religious teachings?
I thought about this some more, and the first thought that came to me was for people to stop defaming science by dragging its name through the mud of factional feuding.
 
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