The mother of Jesus

PruePhillip said:

In other words, the bible is bogus.

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JJ50 said:

The Catholics have turned Mary into some kind of saint, whereas apart from the virgin birth tale, the gospel writers don't mention her much at all. Even that son of hers doesn't seem to have included her in his group of disciples. The idea of going to a confessional and being given hail marys to say, the number depending on how naughty you have been, seems like superstitious nonsense to me.

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80s fashion girl said:

More than some kind of saint: Catholic dogma states that Mary escaped original sin, lived her life without sinning, and in addition to the Virgin Birth, remained a virgin for her entire life. In 431 CE, the Council of Ephesus named Mary the Mother of God. In 1950 Pope Pius XII proclaimed that Mary was 'assumed' alive into heaven. In 1954 that same pope confirmed the title 'Queen of Heaven' to Mary.

The roots are from ancient pagan mythology.

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Brickjectivity said:

No, contends the catholic. The catholic contends there is good to be reaped from everywhere in the world and also shared. I don't know what the RC says about it or what the various orthodox precincts say, but the idea of the word catholic implies it.

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metis said:

You said in a previous post that you have high respect for your children, and that's great, imo. But let's say that one of your kids comes home with someone that they intends to marry, and it turns out that (s)he is a Catholic. What's your reaction? Will you respect your son's/daughter's wishes or lecture them? Is it being respectful if you don't accept their choice? Will they respect you if you are not willing to accept the faith they may both end up in?

This actually happened with my parents as I was brought up in an extremely anti-Catholic Protestant family and church, but I ended up marrying a very devout Catholic woman 52 years ago. Fortunately, my parents kept their bigotry to themselves at that point. But then something happened.

As our kids got a bit older, there were Catholic ceremonies for them at different intervals, and my parents began to attend them. Guess what? They not only enjoyed them, but I overheard my father tell one of his neighbors at a neighborhood picnic that the reason he liked our church was because we "acted like Protestants". I didn't say anything, then or afterward.

Beware of bigotry, because usually if a person is prone to bigotry in one area they all too often are bigoted in other areas as well. And it will show, and it's possible down the road that your kids may not respect you if you stomp on what they feel is important. Plus such bigotry shows that one is prejudice and willing to slip into stereotyping others, and as the kids get older they may well pick up on that. IOW. respect is earned.

Just some advice from an old man, and I don't even charge extra for it!

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Landon Caeli said:

I revere my mother, who recently passed away from cancer. And she gets slandered just like the mother of Jesus.

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Diana Montgomery said:

I have two opposing views on this. On the one hand, Mary was the mother of Jesus. She was chosen by God to bear his son. Therefore, she is a holy person in her own right. However, I do have a problem with the Catholic Church venerating her yet not allowing women to become priests. They can speak as lay people and be nuns which also sometimes allows them to speak but they cannot baptize, give communion or do many other things which men are allowed to do. I would think that the fact that Mary Magdalene acted as a disciple should also carry weight. However, she was never considered a disciple despite her strong affiliation with Jesus. Why don't they venerate her as well?

I would say that the rosary, hail Mary's, etc. do cause people to think about Jesus while they are participating in the activities.

As far as confession, the Bible tells Christians to confess their sins. It doesn't say, though, that it has to be to a priest.

And I'm not really anti-Catholic. I'm anti-Christian denomination. Each type of church has their own set of questionable behaviors but it would take me years to talk about each one.

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Diana Montgomery said:

As far as confession, the Bible tells Christians to confess their sins. It doesn't say, though, that it has to be to a priest.

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Brickjectivity said:

Purposely so. The idea of the queen of heaven contains some interesting ideas, so somebody included them. Its pretty obvious. Only a protestant dictator trying to rewrite history later began the rumor that this was of malicious intent, and that rumor eventually resulted in this thread's OP. Yes, Mary is indeed very, very similar to various goddesses. The question is, what is wrong with that? Is everything in the world evil? No, contends the catholic. The catholic contends there is good to be reaped from everywhere in the world and also shared. I don't know what the RC says about it or what the various orthodox precincts say, but the idea of the word catholic implies it.

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80s fashion girl said:

More than some kind of saint: Catholic dogma states that Mary escaped original sin, lived her life without sinning, and in addition to the Virgin Birth, remained a virgin for her entire life. In 431 CE, the Council of Ephesus named Mary the Mother of God. In 1950 Pope Pius XII proclaimed that Mary was 'assumed' alive into heaven. In 1954 that same pope confirmed the title 'Queen of Heaven' to Mary.

The roots are from ancient pagan mythology.

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sooda said:

Why does that teaching bother you? Christians and Jews are taught to honor their father and mother.

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80s fashion girl said:

To answer your question "what is wrong with that?": That's a good question. I don't know that there is anything wrong, as the practicing Catholic knows (or should know) that the pope has the power to change dogma as he "hears" from the Holy Spirit.

Since I was raised Catholic, I was merely pointing out some things that the Vatican has attributed to Mary as part of this thread. If someone thinks it's wrong just don't participate in the Catholic faith.

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Brickjectivity said:

I don't know what its like to grow up roman catholic. I grew up thinking roman catholics were committing 'Maryolotry' a word combining idolatry and Mary, and the Orthodox had those statue things. The pope was like a king or something. That's all I knew. Over time I changed my mind, but that little misunderstanding cost me.

Its often the little things that get you, some flaw you can't perceive about yourself or some tiny bit of fact that turns all of your own facts into nothing. Its been like that for me in all things, very stop and go just like slogging through a swamp. People try to avoid uncertainty and will listen to almost anything to get away from it, and so I have done many times. I hate decisions and having to look at all of the data, weigh everything up. Its like chewing leather. You chew and chew and then all you have made is a square inch of clothing. Certainty is surely a devil.

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Brickjectivity said:

I don't know what its like to grow up roman catholic. I grew up thinking roman catholics were committing 'Maryolotry' a word combining idolatry and Mary, and the Orthodox had those statue things. The pope was like a king or something. That's all I knew. Over time I changed my mind, but that little misunderstanding cost me.

Its often the little things that get you, some flaw you can't perceive about yourself or some tiny bit of fact that turns all of your own facts into nothing. Its been like that for me in all things, very stop and go just like slogging through a swamp. People try to avoid uncertainty and will listen to almost anything to get away from it, and so I have done many times. I hate decisions and having to look at all of the data, weigh everything up. Its like chewing leather. You chew and chew and then all you have made is a square inch of clothing. Certainty is surely a devil.

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80s fashion girl said:

Growing up Catholic my parents were very anti-protestant. Then after reaching adulthood I believed in Christianity and went to the Protestant side. Then after awhile I could see the 'Mary worship' and some other 'very wrong' rituals that weren't biblical as I saw it. I didn't even think Catholics were Christians.

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Brickjectivity said:

So dangerous getting me started.

I like what Ben Franklin writes in the almanack: "Never make your doctor your heir," because that's what people keep doing. Remember all of the places in the bible where prophets become like leeches saying whatever people want to hear and never forget it. They live to be fed by the people they speak to. That isn't what a prophet ought to be doing, and no good prophet accepts pay for his efforts. They always live by their own means. Otherwise they mustn't be taken seriously. Today our world is full of and controlled by paid prophets. They tell us what we want to hear and so cause us to do evil. Its such a common theme in Ezekiel and others that there are constant chattering prophets everywhere misleading people, living off of them. Go to any Bible concordance and look up 'Prophets'. You'll see that they are troublesome in most cases and continue to be so. What's supposed to be happening, today in Christ, is that everyone is their own prophet, listening each to their inward conscience. We shouldn't be spending sunday listening to preaching that tickles our ears. Its counter productive.

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metis said:

John 19[25] So the soldiers did this. But standing by the cross of Jesus were his mother, and his mother's sister, Mary the wife of Clopas, and Mary Mag'dalene.
[26] When Jesus saw his mother, and the disciple whom he loved standing near, he said to his mother, "Woman, behold, your son!"
[27] Then he said to the disciple, "Behold, your mother!" And from that hour the disciple took her to his own home.

So, no, it's clearly a reference to Jesus' mother Mary.

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The Anointed said:

The Evangelists wrote in Greek rather than in Hebrew...at that time only the capital letters of the Greek alphabet were used in writing, without diacritics, punctuation, or separation between words. Lower case letters appeared only in the ninth century, together with spacing between words. Punctuation marks were introduced only with the invention of the printing press in the 15th century. The present separations of chapters was introduced by Cardinal Hugo in the 13th century.

“WOMANWITHOUTHERMANISNOTHING.” Doesn’t make much sense, does it? Let us now separate the words. “Woman without her man is nothing,” that seems better doesn’t it? But without punctuation, what is being said here? “Woman without her man, is nothing;” or “Woman! Without her, man is nothing.”

How many biblical truths have been hidden by using the wrong punctuation.

But standing by the cross of Jesus were his mother, and his mother's sister, Mary the wife of Clopas, and Mary Magdalene. (Incorrect)

But standing by the cross of Jesus were his mother and his mother's sister, Mary the wife of Clopas and Mary Magdalene. (Correct)

According to the subject Guide in Young's Analytical concordance of the Bible, Alpheaus and Cleophas the husband of Mary are one and the same person. Cleophas, the masculine of Cleopatra, is the Greek for [Of a renowned Father] while the name Alpheaus, the Father of James the younger, who is the brother of Jesus, is the Aramaic for [Of a Renowned Father]

The four Gospels mention only two women by the name Mary, at the crucifixion, the burial, and the empty tomb of Jesus.

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