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"The Rise of Non-Religious Americans is Occurring All Over the Country"

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
Yes, but not because I want it to.

We are entering an age where non-religious people are gaining number at a high.rate as @Skwim has pointed out with his data. It may continue this way for another 10 years or so I suspect. But then it will plateau out, and begin to trend back down, as religious influence will gain numbers and with that, yes more influence and power.

Now I know what your thinking. That this is something I would want as a religious person, but that is not true. I do no wish to live under a theocracy. Even as a Christian I cannot live up to the standards of purity that a theocracy would no doubt put in place.
Except every time the "social pendulum" (a term from my homeschooling) swings from atheism to theism, the Church is never as strong as it once was. The Vatican couldn't restore it's power, and around the world the church has not been able to find the same acceptance for running the state, with some places having officially banned it. And what we see today is just the beginning. The best the church could do the last time was get "In God We Trust" printed on money and "under god" added to the pledge.
 

Enoch07

It's all a sick freaking joke.
Premium Member
Except every time the "social pendulum" (a term from my homeschooling) swings from atheism to theism, the Church is never as strong as it once was. The Vatican couldn't restore it's power, and around the world the church has not been able to find the same acceptance for running the state, with some places having officially banned it. And what we see today is just the beginning. The best the church could do the last time was get "In God We Trust" printed on money and "under god" added to the pledge.

Well we can hope so right?

It's not something I personally wish to happen, but I believe it will happen. I am just not entirely sure the religion that becomes prominent will be Christianity. I don't have anything but a hunch to go on, and some data regarding birth rates. But Islam is poised to continue growing at an exponential rate, and could dominate the world the next "pendulum" swing.

Not stating that as fact, just a hunch I have.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
Well we can hope so right?

It's not something I personally wish to happen, but I believe it will happen. I am just not entirely sure the religion that becomes prominent will be Christianity. I don't have anything but a hunch to go on, and some data regarding birth rates. But Islam is poised to continue growing at an exponential rate, and could dominate the world the next "pendulum" swing.

Not stating that as fact, just a hunch I have.
As bunches and bunches and bunches of studies indicate, the "spiritual but not religious" is the most growing group. I would go as far to saw the pendulum has only just begun to swing away from theism. If there is any pendulum at all (I doubt it, as it never gets fully "back to the other side" after it swings atheist). It could be we are seeing the dawn of an era where traditional and organized religion is scrapped and the nones (in a very broad sense) come to dominance as the atheist, agnostic, and spiritualist coexist in harmony, something religion has consistently failed to do.
 

mikkel_the_dane

My own religion
As bunches and bunches and bunches of studies indicate, the "spiritual but not religious" is the most growing group. I would go as far to saw the pendulum has only just begun to swing away from theism. If there is any pendulum at all (I doubt it, as it never gets fully "back to the other side" after it swings atheist). It could be we are seeing the dawn of an era where traditional and organized religion is scrapped and the nones (in a very broad sense) come to dominance as the atheist, agnostic, and spiritualist coexist in harmony, something religion has consistently failed to do.

Even as religious, that is what I hope for. I am more spiritual than religious, yet I am still religious. I hold at least one belief without scientific evidence about what the world is at the fundamental level.
Yet I hope for such a world. :)
 

Enoch07

It's all a sick freaking joke.
Premium Member
As bunches and bunches and bunches of studies indicate, the "spiritual but not religious" is the most growing group. I would go as far to saw the pendulum has only just begun to swing away from theism. If there is any pendulum at all (I doubt it, as it never gets fully "back to the other side" after it swings atheist). It could be we are seeing the dawn of an era where traditional and organized religion is scrapped and the nones (in a very broad sense) come to dominance as the atheist, agnostic, and spiritualist coexist in harmony, something religion has consistently failed to do.

Possible I admit, but I doubt it.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
Possible I admit, but I doubt it.
I can post links, but honestly I'd rather not because it would a list of a wall of text, but for several years now at least dozens and dozens of studies from around the world have all reached the same conclusion. Organized religion membership is dwindling while the nones and spiritualists are gaining like never before. Nietzsche does seem to have prematurely declared god dead, as god seems to have been put on life support shortly after that statement, but a bit over a century later we seem to have pulled the plug (or, more accurately I suspect, the Clergy tripped over it).
 

Enoch07

It's all a sick freaking joke.
Premium Member
I can post links, but honestly I'd rather not because it would a list of a wall of text, but for several years now at least dozens and dozens of studies from around the world have all reached the same conclusion. Organized religion membership is dwindling while the nones and spiritualists are gaining like never before. Nietzsche does seem to have prematurely declared god dead, as god seems to have been put on life support shortly after that statement, but a bit over a century later we seem to have pulled the plug (or, more accurately I suspect, the Clergy tripped over it).

Nah that's just wishful thinking. What you are saying refutes the OPs data even, as has shows religious peoples number staying roughly the same, while non religious grows.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
Nah that's just wishful thinking. What you are saying refutes the OPs data even, as has shows religious peoples number staying roughly the same, while non religious grows.
Skwim has a history on conflating spirituals and non-theists when he makes such posts, and I believe it's happened several times but at least in this thread for sure someone did point out the error to him. When you combine the two, who technically both would be "nones" a broad sense when compared to the religious/theists in the traditional sense, it does appear to become a very sizable group, but it's highly disingenuous to do so as the spiritualists and "actual nones" have very different and often incompatible world views.
 

Skwim

Veteran Member
Skwim has a history on conflating spirituals and non-theists when he makes such posts, and I believe it's happened several times but at least in this thread for sure someone did point out the error to him. When you combine the two, who technically both would be "nones" a broad sense when compared to the religious/theists in the traditional sense, it does appear to become a very sizable group, but it's highly disingenuous to do so as the spiritualists and "actual nones" have very different and often incompatible world views.
Why do you think Donald Trump resorts to shooting the messenger? It's because he's incapable of thinking above the level of a fifth grader. On the other hand, I consider you far brighter than that and am surprised you've fallen to using the ploy.

I'm disappointed, S. W..

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to
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The Hammer

[REDACTED]
Premium Member
What makes you think they are atheists? The fastest growing religious group according to Pew is "spiritual not religious". That's not good news to me because that group tends to be a little too new agey for my taste.

https://www.vox.com/identities/2017/11/10/16630178/study-spiritual-but-not-religious

As a pagan and a polytheist, I frequently have to identify (in research/surveys) as spiritual but not religious, because Wiccan does not fit my views, and neither does Agnostic, Atheist or None.

Also, is there something particularly wrong with new age beliefs?
 

The Reverend Bob

Fart Machine and Beastmaster
Also, is there something particularly wrong with new age beliefs
They tend to water down the meaning of other traditions. It's like they will take Buddhism water it down of Western ideas and then mix in some Christianity and helping of Hinduism with lots sugar and then mix in reincarnation and astrology into the whole mix and then say "Voila, spirituality!"
 

The Hammer

[REDACTED]
Premium Member
They tend to water down the meaning of other traditions. It's like they will take Buddhism water it down of Western ideas and then mix in some Christianity and helping of Hinduism with lots sugar and then mix in reincarnation and astrology into the whole mix and then say "Voila, spirituality!"

If it works for that person, and brings them experience, strength and hope, is that a bad thing? Is the issue cultural appropriation? If so, then aren't we all guilty of that by way of the enumerable traditions that have picked and borrowed from each other for millennia.
 

The Hammer

[REDACTED]
Premium Member
Yeah. Basically. I just want to see the elements of my religion and tradition treated with respect. It's common courtesy.

WIth a religious preference set as God Killer? What appropriation are you worried about? I think Nietzsche may have beat you to the punch.
And who says that these "new agers" aren't treating those religions with respect, who are you to know or understand the intentions within others? It seems silly and immature to knock anyone for what makes them happy and fulfilled, as long as it isn't hurting anyone.
 

The Reverend Bob

Fart Machine and Beastmaster
WIth a religious preference set as God Killer? What appropriation are you worried about? I think Nietzsche may have beat you to the punch.
And who says that these "new agers" aren't treating those religions with respect, who are you to know or understand the intentions within others? It seems silly and immature to knock anyone for what makes them happy and fulfilled, as long as it isn't hurting anyone.
So in your book Native Americans have know business feeling disrespected when some white person takes elements of their culture and traditions and twist them beyond recognition and strips them of all meaning because afterall it's making white boy feel good about himself?
 

The Hammer

[REDACTED]
Premium Member
So in your book Native Americans have know business feeling disrespected when some white person takes elements of their culture and traditions and twist them beyond recognition and strips them of all meaning because afterall it's making white boy feel good about himself?

Yes.

Edit: Everything boils down to intention, and we cannot know the intentions of others. Unless they specifically tell us.
 

ADigitalArtist

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
So in your book Native Americans have know business feeling disrespected when some white person takes elements of their culture and traditions and twist them beyond recognition and strips them of all meaning because afterall it's making white boy feel good about himself?
I've never seen any Native American community spokespeople complain about syncretics. Only 'culture not costume' which is the flippancy of using native American aesthetics i.e. "redskin" logos or "sexy Indian costumes," not sincerely held spiritual beliefs which mirror native American custom.
The idea of a white person adopting some native American wisdoms onto their spiritual life is way less creepy than the idea that people should only form spiritual practices tied to their ethnic groups.
 

The Hammer

[REDACTED]
Premium Member
I've never seen any Native American community spokespeople complain about syncretics. Only 'culture not costume' which is the flippancy of using native American aesthetics i.e. "redskin" logos or "sexy Indian costumes," not sincerely held spiritual beliefs which mirror native American custom.
The idea of a white person adopting some native American wisdoms onto their spiritual life is way less creepy than the idea that people should only form spiritual practices tied to their ethnic groups.

This is basically what I wanted to imply, you appear to be more eloquent then I, today. This is why I mentioned intention as the core of whether or not it's cultural appropriation. Although, even that is an oversimplification.
 
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