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Activist atheism

ecco

ecco

Veteran Member
ecco said: ↑
If you don't like it, don't attend atheist seminars and conferences.
dmap said:
I don't attend them. I listen to them. I am studying ideas and viewpoints.

I hope you are not saying that people mocking each others' ideas and laughing at them is a good thing?
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Why not? Some ideas need to be mocked and laughed at. There is a lot more of that in unmoderated forums.
 
T

tayla

My dog's name is Tayla
Jim said:
Do you have any other ideas about how it could be beneficial to some people or to society, to denounce religions and debate with some of their followers?
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I see how it could be harmful. For example, people with all their friends and social arrangements based on their church, and who would be shunned if they changed their views. They would be dumped into the lonely solitary world of attending expensive yearly atheist conferences, alone and friendless. Not a good outcome for some/many/a few.
 
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The Reverend Bob

The Reverend Bob

Fart Machine and Beastmaster
dmap said:
I find this very disturbing. It implies that those trying to make a living in the realm of ideas should not be trusted because they taint their ideas with untruth and nonsense designed to capture an audience. It's as if they have adopted the same tactics as the current president of a certain country in order to keep their name continuously in the headlines.
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Yes! You got it!
 
ecco

ecco

Veteran Member
dmap said:
Why do assume I find that OK? I reject revealed religions and revealed spiritual paths as trustworthy sources of truth and knowledge. And I especially find fundamentalist evangelical Christianity to be cult-like and dangerous -- just look at the effect it is having on the US political system.
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So you say. But you have been criticizing atheists throughout this thread. So one has to wonder.
 
T

tayla

My dog's name is Tayla
Jim said:
denouncing religions and debating with some of their followers in Internet forums as a way of helping to improve the world, or to improve some people’s lives. Do you see some possible benefit for some people or for society, in denouncing religions, and debating with some their followers?
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An interesting and important question. But based on the damage to society that certain groups are causing (for example, the religiously zealous supporters of the current president of a certain country), seems the bad ideas should be vigorously opposed.
 
ChristineM

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
dmap said:
Thank you. Perhaps I will create threads about them when I get through my backlog of posts to reply to.

In a nutshell, my concerns are:
  1. The assumption of materialism/physicalism.
  2. That scientific inquiry includes such things as the economic law of supply and demand, for example.
  3. That the subjective experience of consciousness is merely an illusion, or merely the process and functioning of the neural network of the brain, or merely an emergent property.
  4. That a spirit being simply can't interact with the physical. Yes it can, there is a way.
  5. That things showing purpose (teleonomy and teleology) in fact, have only the illusion of purpose.
  6. Whether information embedded in physical systems require a non-physical source.
  7. That the universe just is, for no reason.
  8. That any biological systems can arise randomly. It is merely assumed they do.
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None of which apply to Atheism directly, let me quote the definition

Atheism : disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods.

Nothing more, nothing less. Every atheist is an individual with different priorities and different ideas, maybe some few will consider all your queries apply to them. Most, perhaps one, two or three or have completely different outlook

For myself
1. What assumption? One cannot live on prayer
2. Not me, nor would anyone i know confuse science with economics or finance
3. Yes, consciousness is a function of the brain.
4. Prove it
5. Not me.
6. What? Not clear
7. I dont think anyone assumes that, for example i know 28 possible reasons. None of which are no reason.
8. Evolution does not work that way, no Atheist with any inkling of evolution would consider it random.
 
mikkel_the_dane

mikkel_the_dane

My own religion
ecco said:
...
How about none of the above. I don't need your condescending comments wrapped up in your embarrassed smilies.
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So what is the point in that I have beliefs, which are wrong? As back to what we have still not finished and indeed tie a lot of these threads together: The idea of better world for us all and how to get there? But we don't seem as humans to be able to agree on either.

So please only with reason, logic and evidence. No right or wrong as connected to good or bad.
And there is where we end.
That I in the formal sense hold beliefs without reason, logic and evidence, only matters to you, if it matters to you, as right, wrong, good and/or bad.
And then we leave science.

That is my point in part. Science has a limit and you are looking at it. It is natural and indeed a fact, that I hold beliefs without reason, logic and evidence. We all do, including you. And yes, religion also has a limit.

So could we leave the dichotomy of science versus religion and try to do a combination?
 
T

tayla

My dog's name is Tayla
Jim said:
Close. Not exactly. I see everything that people think of as “truth,” from science or from scriptures, as part of what blinds people to the light and repels them from it. The light that I’m thinking of might not be what you mean by “truth.”
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Are you referring to a mystical experiential kind of reality, as opposed to philosophically based argumentation in the world of ideas? If so, this reminds me somewhat of some eastern philosophical systems.
 
ChristineM

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
dmap said:
I did not design my OP to belittle atheism. As I mentioned, in listening for months to well-known atheists, I keep hearing the kinds of disturbing things I mention. To declare that such things are never stated by these atheists is not helpful or honest -- we can't just sweep things under the rug in defending our viewpoint.

And yes, a few actually hate religion. I'm sorry I didn't use more qualifiers in the OP so as to not offend anyone (is it proper for me to go back and modify the OP to bring it more in line with my intent?)
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You could go back and edit it but i would think it a bit late now
 
T

tayla

My dog's name is Tayla
lewisnotmiller said:
It's no biggie, long as you realise you're talking about a subset...and a pretty small one in my personal opinion.
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I considered this subset to be rather significant since I only listen to well-known mainstream atheists, not fringe conspiracy theory types. But without having provided direct quotations I have no right to press the issue.
 
T

tayla

My dog's name is Tayla
lewisnotmiller said:
But if I said 'Christians have radical plans for our society' it might be fair enough if some tap me on the shoulder and said I was overstating.
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If you said "leaders of fundamentalist evangelical Christianity" I think the generalization would be worth stating as is with no additional qualifiers.
 
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