What if Judaism, Christianity and Islam were all true and part of God's three succesive revelations?

shmogie said:

Wrong. Do you refute what I posted ? Show me the suraś.

Sure there are similarities Islam is a combination of things appropriated from Judaism and Christianity, with a lot of madness thrown in.

A counterfeit has to be similar to the legitimate, else it won´t work.

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Christianity has been called a counterfeit of Judaism, yet we also have a lot in common with Jews.

Are you an expert on Suras from the Koran?

Octavio Siepi said:

I think God wants to reveal to all of humanity but he is aware that a universal message wouldn't work because people have lots of different mindsets. So he chooses to reveal himself in different ways intended for different types of people. His first revelation was of course with Abraham that is the starting point for these three religions. Judaism was his first big revelation and was intended for one nation only since he wanted to make sure that he would get his message clear in one nation at first. Also this first revelation intended for one nation only would not be a missionary faith. Christianity was his second revelation, he became human and came to earth as Jesus, spread his message and died on the cross to wipe out sin. This second revelation he knew would be big and would be a missionary faith and he would make himself known to large chunks of the world. This second revelation was also universal. His third revelation until now was Islam. He knew that lots of people wouldn't accept Christianity since the idea of a human God was hard to comprehend. So he made a revelation in which Jesus is a Prophet but also is a return to roots to some aspects of Judaism like strict monotheism, etc.

I would expect a fourth revelation that would probably be the last one although I'm not sure about that. This fourth revelation would end up converting the rest of world religions into the God of Abraham. Above all in India and Eastern Asia which is the part of the world where Abrahamic religions are still not prevalent.

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Its constantly ongoing. Religion tends to bunch up around "it was going" and now we own it, look its written down it emperical!!!!! Very very strict empericists religion tends to be especially in those three!!!! Those are the crowning jewel of strict empericism. They measure everything scientifically "eye" and religiously"i". We call that cross eyed! Look there is the cross!

No its certainly a vision problem very difficult to correct. As soon as you attempt to straight it out they get upset! Leave me along with your word salad they say.

Proof crossed eyed.

Octavio Siepi said:

I think God wants to reveal to all of humanity but he is aware that a universal message wouldn't work because people have lots of different mindsets. So he chooses to reveal himself in different ways intended for different types of people. His first revelation was of course with Abraham that is the starting point for these three religions. Judaism was his first big revelation and was intended for one nation only since he wanted to make sure that he would get his message clear in one nation at first. Also this first revelation intended for one nation only would not be a missionary faith. Christianity was his second revelation, he became human and came to earth as Jesus, spread his message and died on the cross to wipe out sin. This second revelation he knew would be big and would be a missionary faith and he would make himself known to large chunks of the world. This second revelation was also universal. His third revelation until now was Islam. He knew that lots of people wouldn't accept Christianity since the idea of a human God was hard to comprehend. So he made a revelation in which Jesus is a Prophet but also is a return to roots to some aspects of Judaism like strict monotheism, etc.

I would expect a fourth revelation that would probably be the last one although I'm not sure about that. This fourth revelation would end up converting the rest of world religions into the God of Abraham. Above all in India and Eastern Asia which is the part of the world where Abrahamic religions are still not prevalent.

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AFAIK, only the Bahais claim them all to be true and the successor of all 3.
I am curious as to why you didn't mention them?

Octavio Siepi said:

I think God wants to reveal to all of humanity but he is aware that a universal message wouldn't work because people have lots of different mindsets. So he chooses to reveal himself in different ways intended for different types of people. His first revelation was of course with Abraham that is the starting point for these three religions. Judaism was his first big revelation and was intended for one nation only since he wanted to make sure that he would get his message clear in one nation at first. Also this first revelation intended for one nation only would not be a missionary faith. Christianity was his second revelation, he became human and came to earth as Jesus, spread his message and died on the cross to wipe out sin. This second revelation he knew would be big and would be a missionary faith and he would make himself known to large chunks of the world. This second revelation was also universal. His third revelation until now was Islam. He knew that lots of people wouldn't accept Christianity since the idea of a human God was hard to comprehend. So he made a revelation in which Jesus is a Prophet but also is a return to roots to some aspects of Judaism like strict monotheism, etc.

I would expect a fourth revelation that would probably be the last one although I'm not sure about that. This fourth revelation would end up converting the rest of world religions into the God of Abraham. Above all in India and Eastern Asia which is the part of the world where Abrahamic religions are still not prevalent.

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Considering what a horrible communicator god appears to be, it would make perfect sense for god to add to the confusion in such a manner.

Octavio Siepi said:

I think God wants to reveal to all of humanity but he is aware that a universal message wouldn't work because people have lots of different mindsets. So he chooses to reveal himself in different ways intended for different types of people. His first revelation was of course with Abraham that is the starting point for these three religions. Judaism was his first big revelation and was intended for one nation only since he wanted to make sure that he would get his message clear in one nation at first. Also this first revelation intended for one nation only would not be a missionary faith. Christianity was his second revelation, he became human and came to earth as Jesus, spread his message and died on the cross to wipe out sin. This second revelation he knew would be big and would be a missionary faith and he would make himself known to large chunks of the world. This second revelation was also universal. His third revelation until now was Islam. He knew that lots of people wouldn't accept Christianity since the idea of a human God was hard to comprehend. So he made a revelation in which Jesus is a Prophet but also is a return to roots to some aspects of Judaism like strict monotheism, etc.

I would expect a fourth revelation that would probably be the last one although I'm not sure about that. This fourth revelation would end up converting the rest of world religions into the God of Abraham. Above all in India and Eastern Asia which is the part of the world where Abrahamic religions are still not prevalent.

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Agreed. Ultimately, it seems clear that the Creator will see single deity beliefs as one. In a manner of speaking, Islam and Judaism are very closely related, in fact I'm of the opinion that Islam is a sort of copy of it. I often doubt that Jesus intended for Christianity to exist as a belief system separate from Judaism.

Octavio Siepi said:

I think God wants to reveal to all of humanity but he is aware that a universal message wouldn't work because people have lots of different mindsets. So he chooses to reveal himself in different ways intended for different types of people. His first revelation was of course with Abraham that is the starting point for these three religions. Judaism was his first big revelation and was intended for one nation only since he wanted to make sure that he would get his message clear in one nation at first. Also this first revelation intended for one nation only would not be a missionary faith. Christianity was his second revelation, he became human and came to earth as Jesus, spread his message and died on the cross to wipe out sin. This second revelation he knew would be big and would be a missionary faith and he would make himself known to large chunks of the world. This second revelation was also universal. His third revelation until now was Islam. He knew that lots of people wouldn't accept Christianity since the idea of a human God was hard to comprehend. So he made a revelation in which Jesus is a Prophet but also is a return to roots to some aspects of Judaism like strict monotheism, etc.

I would expect a fourth revelation that would probably be the last one although I'm not sure about that. This fourth revelation would end up converting the rest of world religions into the God of Abraham. Above all in India and Eastern Asia which is the part of the world where Abrahamic religions are still not prevalent.

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They're not.
Islam is not part of God's successive revelation.

The reason being Islam teaches, through what we're told were Allah's revelations to Muhammad, that Allah has no son.
Therefore, when Jesus in Christianity is the son of God, being begat upon his mother Mary by the holy spirit, so as to be born on earth fully human and yet fully indwelt by the holy spirit we're told indwells the believer in Jesus , that would mean Islam is not part of the God of Judaism or Christianity.

Judaism prophesied Jesus. Christianity was the prophecy realized.

Islam has no relationship whatever with Judaism nor Christianity due to "Allah's" revelation to the world that he has no son. Which means, no Christ, no Messiah, no Immanuel ("God with us")
Don't believe me, believe Muslims. Actual Muslims that obey the Qur'an.
Qur'an Search

SugarOcean said:

They're not.
Islam is not part of God's successive revelation.

The reason being Islam teaches, through what we're told were Allah's revelations to Muhammad, that Allah has no son.
Therefore, when Jesus in Christianity is the son of God, being begat upon his mother Mary by the holy spirit, so as to be born on earth fully human and yet fully indwelt by the holy spirit we're told indwells the believer in Jesus , that would mean Islam is not part of the God of Judaism or Christianity.

Judaism prophesied Jesus. Christianity was the prophecy realized.

Islam has no relationship whatever with Judaism nor Christianity due to "Allah's" revelation to the world that he has no son. Which means, no Christ, no Messiah, no Immanuel ("God with us")
Don't believe me, believe Muslims. Actual Muslims that obey the Qur'an.
Qur'an Search

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Jesus was not the literal son of God, he was God himself in the flesh.
So Quran could still be right that God has no sons in the literal sense that we would understand it.
I'm not defending Islam though, I think their depiction of Jesus is problematic, but I'm just assuming that if it is Indeed God's revelation and there's still more revelation to come maybe we'll understand everything in the end once we see the whole picture.
In that moment when we see the whole picture probably believers in the three faiths will have understanding of how all things are connected and not contradictory, just different interprations designed by God to convince different people at each moment.

Octavio Siepi said:

Jesus was not the literal son of God, he was God himself in the flesh.
So Quran could still be right that God has no sons in the literal sense that we would understand it.
I'm not defending Islam though, I think their depiction of Jesus is problematic, but I'm just assuming that if it is Indeed God's revelation and there's still more revelation to come maybe we'll understand everything in the end once we see the whole picture.
In that moment when we see the whole picture probably believers in the three faiths will have understanding of how all things are connected and not contradictory, just different interprations designed by God to convince different people at each moment.

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Immanuel was the literal son of God.
God begat himself upon Mary. When all that is created is of God, all things are of and from God. That's why Jews, knowing this, call themselves, people of God, or God's chosen people, also.
In the Hebrew sense of the word in fact, there were no surnames in Judaism in the time of Jesus. It wasn't as today where a son is bears the last name of his father. Steve Smith, for example.
Rather, the sons were named as sons of their sire. Because Jesus appeared as man and Joseph was the husband of Mary, Jesus, "Yeshua" aka, "Joshua" in translation, would have been known as Yeshua bin Joseph. Joshua son of Joseph.
His title, per the angel that appeared to Mary prior to her conceiving through the holy spirit, was Immanuel. "God with us".
In conventional appearances Immanuel was the son of Joseph. While being the son of God also. God with us. God in him. Which is why Immanuel/Jesus/Yeshua/Joshua, had the powers of God.
He raised the dead, cast out demons, caused the blind to see, healed the cripple, healed the leper, walked on water, calmed the storm, etc...

SugarOcean said:

Judaism prophesied Jesus.

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Not according to the Jewish people

Octavio Siepi said:

I think God wants to reveal to all of humanity but he is aware that a universal message wouldn't work because people have lots of different mindsets. So he chooses to reveal himself in different ways intended for different types of people. His first revelation was of course with Abraham that is the starting point for these three religions. Judaism was his first big revelation and was intended for one nation only since he wanted to make sure that he would get his message clear in one nation at first. Also this first revelation intended for one nation only would not be a missionary faith. Christianity was his second revelation, he became human and came to earth as Jesus, spread his message and died on the cross to wipe out sin. This second revelation he knew would be big and would be a missionary faith and he would make himself known to large chunks of the world. This second revelation was also universal. His third revelation until now was Islam. He knew that lots of people wouldn't accept Christianity since the idea of a human God was hard to comprehend. So he made a revelation in which Jesus is a Prophet but also is a return to roots to some aspects of Judaism like strict monotheism, etc.

I would expect a fourth revelation that would probably be the last one although I'm not sure about that. This fourth revelation would end up converting the rest of world religions into the God of Abraham. Above all in India and Eastern Asia which is the part of the world where Abrahamic religions are still not prevalent.

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They are true, as are quite a few others from the East.

That would be the Message of the Bab and Baha''u'llah now known as the Baha'i Faith.

This is the age promised in all past scriptures of the one fold with one shepherd.

Happy to discuss if you wish.

Regards Tony

SugarOcean said:

They're not.
Islam is not part of God's successive revelation.

The reason being Islam teaches, through what we're told were Allah's revelations to Muhammad, that Allah has no son.
Therefore, when Jesus in Christianity is the son of God, being begat upon his mother Mary by the holy spirit, so as to be born on earth fully human and yet fully indwelt by the holy spirit we're told indwells the believer in Jesus , that would mean Islam is not part of the God of Judaism or Christianity.

Judaism prophesied Jesus. Christianity was the prophecy realized.

Islam has no relationship whatever with Judaism nor Christianity due to "Allah's" revelation to the world that he has no son. Which means, no Christ, no Messiah, no Immanuel ("God with us")
Don't believe me, believe Muslims. Actual Muslims that obey the Qur'an.
Qur'an Search

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Judaism didn't prophesy Jesus.. They expected an anointed warrior king like David who would vanquish their enemies and rid them of the Roman occupation.

Octavio Siepi said:

I think God wants to reveal to all of humanity but he is aware that a universal message wouldn't work because people have lots of different mindsets. So he chooses to reveal himself in different ways intended for different types of people. His first revelation was of course with Abraham that is the starting point for these three religions. Judaism was his first big revelation and was intended for one nation only since he wanted to make sure that he would get his message clear in one nation at first. Also this first revelation intended for one nation only would not be a missionary faith. Christianity was his second revelation, he became human and came to earth as Jesus, spread his message and died on the cross to wipe out sin. This second revelation he knew would be big and would be a missionary faith and he would make himself known to large chunks of the world. This second revelation was also universal. His third revelation until now was Islam. He knew that lots of people wouldn't accept Christianity since the idea of a human God was hard to comprehend. So he made a revelation in which Jesus is a Prophet but also is a return to roots to some aspects of Judaism like strict monotheism, etc.

I would expect a fourth revelation that would probably be the last one although I'm not sure about that. This fourth revelation would end up converting the rest of world religions into the God of Abraham. Above all in India and Eastern Asia which is the part of the world where Abrahamic religions are still not prevalent.

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What if the devil is real and everyone is deceived unless God shows them the truth?

74x12 said:

What if the devil is real and everyone is deceived unless God shows them the truth?

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That is our choice. God sends His Messengers, we choose to see the good in those Messengers, or we let self overide reason. We are the evil by choice.

Regards Tony

Octavio Siepi said:

I think God wants to reveal to all of humanity but he is aware that a universal message wouldn't work because people have lots of different mindsets. So he chooses to reveal himself in different ways intended for different types of people. His first revelation was of course with Abraham that is the starting point for these three religions. Judaism was his first big revelation and was intended for one nation only since he wanted to make sure that he would get his message clear in one nation at first. Also this first revelation intended for one nation only would not be a missionary faith. Christianity was his second revelation, he became human and came to earth as Jesus, spread his message and died on the cross to wipe out sin. This second revelation he knew would be big and would be a missionary faith and he would make himself known to large chunks of the world. This second revelation was also universal. His third revelation until now was Islam. He knew that lots of people wouldn't accept Christianity since the idea of a human God was hard to comprehend. So he made a revelation in which Jesus is a Prophet but also is a return to roots to some aspects of Judaism like strict monotheism, etc.

I would expect a fourth revelation that would probably be the last one although I'm not sure about that. This fourth revelation would end up converting the rest of world religions into the God of Abraham. Above all in India and Eastern Asia which is the part of the world where Abrahamic religions are still not prevalent.

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Nope. Islam is garbage.

Personally i belive that there has been brought many true teaching to humankind so we all have a chance to find what we can follow and what will bring us the enlightenment we seek. So I see no problem with all of the religions mention here is true teachings

Octavio Siepi said:

I think God wants to reveal to all of humanity but he is aware that a universal message wouldn't work because people have lots of different mindsets. So he chooses to reveal himself in different ways intended for different types of people. His first revelation was of course with Abraham that is the starting point for these three religions.

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I have to disagree with this statement. Islam had no part in the revelation given to Abraham. It is clear because Christianity is based on the promise of the Messiah and the truth that only one covenant was made with Abraham and it concerned his Son Isaac. Isaac the promised son and it was through his descendants that the Messiah would be born.
There is absolutely no connection to Islam in this promise/Covenant,

Judaism was his first big revelation and was intended for one nation only since he wanted to make sure that he would get his message clear in one nation at first. Also this first revelation intended for one nation only would not be a missionary faith.

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Gods people are chosen and not born into the faith. Jesus made this clear that being a descendant of Abraham was more about doing what he did and not being of the birth line.

They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.

Christianity was his second revelation, he became human and came to earth as Jesus, spread his message and died on the cross to wipe out sin.

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KJV
Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

It is clear that God was in Jesus and that jesus and God a two seperate persons for Jesus did not speak of himself but the Father spoke through him.

The first commandment Jesus gives is this:-
KJV
And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.

You cannot love Jesus if you do not love God before him with all your being.

This second revelation he knew would be big and would be a missionary faith and he would make himself known to large chunks of the world. This second revelation was also universal. His third revelation until now was Islam. He knew that lots of people wouldn't accept Christianity since the idea of a human God was hard to comprehend. So he made a revelation in which Jesus is a Prophet but also is a return to roots to some aspects of Judaism like strict monotheism, etc.

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When and how did you decide the above was in anyway acceptable or true?
Anyone not a Jew is a gentile this includes Islam and not Christianity,
The Christian is the fulfillment of the number of Gentiles being added before the final return of the Jews who do not yet believe. Christ made it plain as did God himself that there was only
one way to God in this final covenant and that was Jesus.
No third faith nothing to come after Christ but time for the world to turn to the Messiah and including Gentiles becomes one faith.

So the Christians are the final covenant with Jew and Gentile becoming one people in Gods eyes all being born Jews through the covenant with Christ.

I would expect a fourth revelation that would probably be the last one although I'm not sure about that. This fourth revelation would end up converting the rest of world religions into the God of Abraham. Above all in India and Eastern Asia which is the part of the world where Abrahamic religions are still not prevalent.

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Life and faith have always been about accepting and rejecting God. Abraham believed what God told him about his son and this was afforded to him as righteous before God,
Those who believe what God has said about his own Son Jesus Christ are saved and righteousness afforded to them through his atonement.
Now Christ is come true worshippers worship God in Spirit and Truth. Jesus is the way and no other way. If you reject what God says there is no other way to him.

Octavio Siepi said:

I think God wants to reveal to all of humanity but he is aware that a universal message wouldn't work because people have lots of different mindsets. So he chooses to reveal himself in different ways intended for different types of people. His first revelation was of course with Abraham that is the starting point for these three religions. Judaism was his first big revelation and was intended for one nation only since he wanted to make sure that he would get his message clear in one nation at first. Also this first revelation intended for one nation only would not be a missionary faith. Christianity was his second revelation, he became human and came to earth as Jesus, spread his message and died on the cross to wipe out sin. This second revelation he knew would be big and would be a missionary faith and he would make himself known to large chunks of the world. This second revelation was also universal. His third revelation until now was Islam. He knew that lots of people wouldn't accept Christianity since the idea of a human God was hard to comprehend. So he made a revelation in which Jesus is a Prophet but also is a return to roots to some aspects of Judaism like strict monotheism, etc.

I would expect a fourth revelation that would probably be the last one although I'm not sure about that. This fourth revelation would end up converting the rest of world religions into the God of Abraham. Above all in India and Eastern Asia which is the part of the world where Abrahamic religions are still not prevalent.

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Today's Judaism and Islam are not from the God of the Bible. They also do not believe in the God of the Bible but deny him. God became flesh and the flesh is Jesus Christ, whoever rejects Jesus Christ as the true God also rejects God the Father. You must imagine it this way. A programmer has developed a game, one day the programmer wanted to get into his game to be together with his creation. But because he himself can't get in, he developed his own character. The programmer was now in his own game. Anyone who saw the programmer's character in the game, saw the programmer. So if someone says to his character: You are not the developer. He also says that the programmer is not the developer, although he is. It's the same with Jesus and the Father. The game is the world. Jesus is the character and the father is the programmer.

sooda said:

Judaism didn't prophesy Jesus.. They expected an anointed warrior king like David who would vanquish their enemies and rid them of the Roman occupation.

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But the Torah does. The Torah prophesies Jesus already in the first book.

sooda said:

Judaism didn't prophesy Jesus.. They expected an anointed warrior king like David who would vanquish their enemies and rid them of the Roman occupation.

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As we can read in Daniel 9:24-27, the Messiah will come shortly before the second temple is destroyed. So if Jesus is not the Messiah, then it can no longer be anyone, because the temple is already destroyed. Jesus must be the Messiah.

Unfortunately, the Quran is not consistent with the Torah and Bible.

The Torah and Bible have Moses free slaves from Egypt. The Quran has Moses encounter a man with "special knowledge" who tells him to kill a man and later claims it's because Allah will replace him ( or something, it makes little sense).

The Bible has Jesus die on the cross for our sins, "for God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that whoever believes in him shall not perish bur have everlasting life." The Quran says "Allah has no son", and explains Jesus as a prophet who basically made someone die in his place. It then goes on to prophesy that Jesus would come to break the cross and kill the pigs.

Jesus said the one who shows mercy is a good neighbor, and to love your neighbor as yourself. If you saw your neighbor trusting people that you suspect will mean him harm, your duty is to tell your neighbor the truth even if it makes you sound bad. Your neighbor's life and happiness are more important than sounding like a tolerant person.
And so, it falls on me to tell you that the teaching of the Quran is not the same as the one of Christian and Jew, and in fact opposes them. That while Jews can agree with basically everything but kosher diet and about Jesus, if the Torah is true and the Bible is true, the Quran cannot be true and vice versa.