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Activism by atheists

T

tayla

My dog's name is Tayla
Do quotes such as these following qualify as activism, meaning, wishing for change in society? (Argumentation is a tool of activism, an action.)

All these quotes assume it's better if there were no religion, with the assumption that certain intuitions promote religion.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think I would abolish schools which systematically inculcate sectarian beliefs.
--Richard Dawkins

How any government could promote the Vardy academies in the North-East of England is absolutely beyond me. Tony Blair defends them on grounds of diversity, but it should be unthinkable in the 21st century to have a school whose head of science believes the world is less than 10,000 years old.
--Richard Dawkins

How dare you force your dopey unsubstantiated superstitions on innocent children too young to resist? How DARE you?
--Richard Dawkins

Pat Robertson would be harmless comedy, were he less typical of those who today hold power and influence in the United States.
--Richard Dawkins, The God Delusion

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.
--Richard Dawkins, The God Delusion

Look carefully at any region of the world where you find intractable enmity and violence between rival groups today. I cannot guarantee that you’ll find religions as the dominant labels for in-groups and out-groups. But it’s a good bet.
--Richard Dawkins, The God Delusion

If children were taught to question and think through their beliefs, instead of being taught the superior virtue of faith without question, it is a good bet that there would be no suicide bombers.
--Richard Dawkins, The God Delusion

If you feel trapped in the religion of your upbringing, it would be worth asking yourself how this came about. The answer is usually some form of childhood indoctrination. If you are religious at all it is overwhelmingly probable that your religion is that of your parents.
--Richard Dawkins, The God Delusion

I know I am in danger of being misunderstood by those people, all too numerous, who cannot distinguish a statement of belief in what is the case from an advocacy of what ought to be the case.
--Richard Dawkins, The Selfish Gene

Faith is an evil precisely because it requires no justification and brooks no argument.
--Richard Dawkins, The God Delusion

Even if religion did no other harm in itself, its wanton and carefully nurtured divisiveness – its deliberate and cultivated pandering to humanity’s natural tendency to favour in-groups and shun out-groups – would be enough to make it a significant force for evil in the world.
--Richard Dawkins, The God Delusion

If I convert it's because it's better that a believer dies than that an atheist does.
--Christopher Hitchens, Mortality

Religion is a totalitarian belief. It is the wish to be a slave. It is the desire that there be an unalterable, unchallengeable, tyrannical authority who can convict you of thought crime while you are asleep, who can subject you to total surveillance around the clock every waking and sleeping minute of your life, before you're born and, even worse and where the real fun begins, after you're dead.
--Christopher Hitchens

I absolutely refuse to associate myself with anyone who cannot discern the essential night-and-day difference between theocratic fascism and liberal secular democracy....
--Christopher Hitchens, Christopher Hitchens and His Critics: Terror, Iraq, and the Left

Those of us who have freedom of speech will feel free to describe your teachings as the spreading of falsehoods, and will attempt to demonstrate this to your children at our earliest opportunity. Our future well-being—the well-being of all of us on the planet—depends on the education of our descendants.
--Daniel C. Dennett, Darwin's Dangerous Idea: Evolution and the Meanings of Life
 
David T

David T

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
dmap said:
Do quotes such as these following qualify as activism, meaning, wishing for change in society? (Argumentation is a tool of activism, an action.)

All these quotes assume it's better if there were no religion, with the assumption that certain intuitions promote religion.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think I would abolish schools which systematically inculcate sectarian beliefs.
--Richard Dawkins

How any government could promote the Vardy academies in the North-East of England is absolutely beyond me. Tony Blair defends them on grounds of diversity, but it should be unthinkable in the 21st century to have a school whose head of science believes the world is less than 10,000 years old.
--Richard Dawkins

How dare you force your dopey unsubstantiated superstitions on innocent children too young to resist? How DARE you?
--Richard Dawkins

Pat Robertson would be harmless comedy, were he less typical of those who today hold power and influence in the United States.
--Richard Dawkins, The God Delusion

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.
--Richard Dawkins, The God Delusion

Look carefully at any region of the world where you find intractable enmity and violence between rival groups today. I cannot guarantee that you’ll find religions as the dominant labels for in-groups and out-groups. But it’s a good bet.
--Richard Dawkins, The God Delusion

If children were taught to question and think through their beliefs, instead of being taught the superior virtue of faith without question, it is a good bet that there would be no suicide bombers.
--Richard Dawkins, The God Delusion

If you feel trapped in the religion of your upbringing, it would be worth asking yourself how this came about. The answer is usually some form of childhood indoctrination. If you are religious at all it is overwhelmingly probable that your religion is that of your parents.
--Richard Dawkins, The God Delusion

I know I am in danger of being misunderstood by those people, all too numerous, who cannot distinguish a statement of belief in what is the case from an advocacy of what ought to be the case.
--Richard Dawkins, The Selfish Gene

Faith is an evil precisely because it requires no justification and brooks no argument.
--Richard Dawkins, The God Delusion

Even if religion did no other harm in itself, its wanton and carefully nurtured divisiveness – its deliberate and cultivated pandering to humanity’s natural tendency to favour in-groups and shun out-groups – would be enough to make it a significant force for evil in the world.
--Richard Dawkins, The God Delusion

If I convert it's because it's better that a believer dies than that an atheist does.
--Christopher Hitchens, Mortality

Religion is a totalitarian belief. It is the wish to be a slave. It is the desire that there be an unalterable, unchallengeable, tyrannical authority who can convict you of thought crime while you are asleep, who can subject you to total surveillance around the clock every waking and sleeping minute of your life, before you're born and, even worse and where the real fun begins, after you're dead.
--Christopher Hitchens

I absolutely refuse to associate myself with anyone who cannot discern the essential night-and-day difference between theocratic fascism and liberal secular democracy....
--Christopher Hitchens, Christopher Hitchens and His Critics: Terror, Iraq, and the Left

Those of us who have freedom of speech will feel free to describe your teachings as the spreading of falsehoods, and will attempt to demonstrate this to your children at our earliest opportunity. Our future well-being—the well-being of all of us on the planet—depends on the education of our descendants.
--Daniel C. Dennett, Darwin's Dangerous Idea: Evolution and the Meanings of Life
Click to expand...
"I think I would abolish schools which systematically inculcate sectarian beliefs."
--Richard Dawkins

"i think"

Well it seems to be a pandemic condition of normalcy.
A good doctor listens to the patient in the mental hospital as the patient says "i think" the doctor knows the patient is mad.

A bad doctor listens to the "i think" and argues with the patient.

The good doctor walks by and has the bad doctor commited. Then the former bad doctor now argues with the patient on equal terms.

So it seems we have arguments based on equal ground called ungrounded. Very unstable.
 
LuisDantas

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
dmap said:
Do quotes such as these following qualify as activism, meaning, wishing for change in society? (Argumentation is a tool of activism, an action.)

All these quotes assume it's better if there were no religion, with the assumption that certain intuitions promote religion.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think I would abolish schools which systematically inculcate sectarian beliefs.
--Richard Dawkins

How any government could promote the Vardy academies in the North-East of England is absolutely beyond me. Tony Blair defends them on grounds of diversity, but it should be unthinkable in the 21st century to have a school whose head of science believes the world is less than 10,000 years old.
--Richard Dawkins

How dare you force your dopey unsubstantiated superstitions on innocent children too young to resist? How DARE you?
--Richard Dawkins

Pat Robertson would be harmless comedy, were he less typical of those who today hold power and influence in the United States.
--Richard Dawkins, The God Delusion

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.
--Richard Dawkins, The God Delusion

Look carefully at any region of the world where you find intractable enmity and violence between rival groups today. I cannot guarantee that you’ll find religions as the dominant labels for in-groups and out-groups. But it’s a good bet.
--Richard Dawkins, The God Delusion

If children were taught to question and think through their beliefs, instead of being taught the superior virtue of faith without question, it is a good bet that there would be no suicide bombers.
--Richard Dawkins, The God Delusion

If you feel trapped in the religion of your upbringing, it would be worth asking yourself how this came about. The answer is usually some form of childhood indoctrination. If you are religious at all it is overwhelmingly probable that your religion is that of your parents.
--Richard Dawkins, The God Delusion

I know I am in danger of being misunderstood by those people, all too numerous, who cannot distinguish a statement of belief in what is the case from an advocacy of what ought to be the case.
--Richard Dawkins, The Selfish Gene

Faith is an evil precisely because it requires no justification and brooks no argument.
--Richard Dawkins, The God Delusion

Even if religion did no other harm in itself, its wanton and carefully nurtured divisiveness – its deliberate and cultivated pandering to humanity’s natural tendency to favour in-groups and shun out-groups – would be enough to make it a significant force for evil in the world.
--Richard Dawkins, The God Delusion

If I convert it's because it's better that a believer dies than that an atheist does.
--Christopher Hitchens, Mortality

Religion is a totalitarian belief. It is the wish to be a slave. It is the desire that there be an unalterable, unchallengeable, tyrannical authority who can convict you of thought crime while you are asleep, who can subject you to total surveillance around the clock every waking and sleeping minute of your life, before you're born and, even worse and where the real fun begins, after you're dead.
--Christopher Hitchens

I absolutely refuse to associate myself with anyone who cannot discern the essential night-and-day difference between theocratic fascism and liberal secular democracy....
--Christopher Hitchens, Christopher Hitchens and His Critics: Terror, Iraq, and the Left

Those of us who have freedom of speech will feel free to describe your teachings as the spreading of falsehoods, and will attempt to demonstrate this to your children at our earliest opportunity. Our future well-being—the well-being of all of us on the planet—depends on the education of our descendants.
--Daniel C. Dennett, Darwin's Dangerous Idea: Evolution and the Meanings of Life
Click to expand...
Are you honestly bothered by that?
 
Revoltingest

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Atheist activism is useful.
Back in the day, my public school teachers led us in prayer.
O'Hair & the Supreme Court put a stop to that.
Go, atheists!
 
The Reverend Bob

The Reverend Bob

Fart Machine and Beastmaster
You have to understand that Dawkins, Hitchens and Harris are the Anne Coulter, Tomi Lahren and Laura Ingraham of atheism. They are just talking hyperbole and a bunch of bollocks to appeal to their base and sell books and to get people mad and sell books. All their twaddle is just marketing.
 
leov

leov

Well-Known Member
Revoltingest said:
Atheist activism is useful.
Back in the day, my public school teachers led us in prayer.
O'Hair & the Supreme Court put a stop to that.
Go, atheists!
Click to expand...
i like it to certain point, it makes me going deeper into different subjects including Spiritual.
 
Erebus

Erebus

Well-Known Member
A lot of those quotes strike me more as criticism of religion than activism. The parts that could be construed as having an activist ring to them (such as the comments on religious schools) aren't inherently atheistic.

I'm a theist and still inclined to agree with Dawkins on that one.
 
Skwim

Skwim

Veteran Member
dmap said:
Do quotes such as these following qualify as activism, meaning, wishing for change in society? (Argumentation is a tool of activism, an action.)
Click to expand...
As in accord with what religions try to do? YES.

All these quotes assume it's better if there were no religion, with the assumption that certain intuitions promote religion.
Click to expand...
Ah c'mon. Why are you pulling your punches? We all know that certain intuitions promote religion, some of which aren't even religious.

If I convert it's because it's better that a believer dies than that an atheist does.
--Christopher Hitchens, Mortality
Click to expand...
Now that's funny.

.
 
Martin

Martin

Spam, wonderful spam (bloody vikings!)
I'm a very lazy atheist. I still haven't bought new candles for my Dawkins shrine (parsley be upon him).
 
Cooky

Cooky

Veteran Member
David T said:
"I think I would abolish schools which systematically inculcate sectarian beliefs."
--Richard Dawkins

"i think"

Well it seems to be a pandemic condition of normalcy.
A good doctor listens to the patient in the mental hospital as the patient says "i think" the doctor knows the patient is mad.

A bad doctor listens to the "i think" and argues with the patient.

The good doctor walks by and has the bad doctor commited. Then the former bad doctor now argues with the patient on equal terms.

So it seems we have arguments based on equal ground called ungrounded. Very unstable.
Click to expand...

Very good point.
 
David T

David T

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Landon Caeli said:
Very good point.
Click to expand...
We are falling into deeply dangerous territory nonsensically i tell you.

See my post: the grate debait, does pee exist?
Sometimes you have to speak in a way the children understand! Not easy but fun! Give some feedback i would appreciate it.
 
Cooky

Cooky

Veteran Member
David T said:
We are falling into deeply dangerous territory nonsensically i tell you.

See my post: the grate debait, does pee exist?
Sometimes you have to speak in a way the children understand! Not easy but fun! Give some feedback i would appreciate it.
Click to expand...

I see your point. :)
 
dianaiad

dianaiad

Well-Known Member
Revoltingest said:
Atheist activism is useful.
Back in the day, my public school teachers led us in prayer.
O'Hair & the Supreme Court put a stop to that.
Go, atheists!
Click to expand...

And they were right to ban leading prayer in school, where the kids had no choice but to participate.

What 'modern day' atheist activists do, however, is go further than that.

It's one thing to insure that nobody is forced to participate in beliefs they don't hold.

It's quite another to forbid people from expressing their religious beliefs, voluntarily, simply because someone might see them.

This 'freedom from religion' rather than 'freedom OF religion" is a very scary concept.

One of the quotes from Dawson...."Look carefully at any region of the world where you find intractable enmity and violence between rival groups today. I cannot guarantee that you’ll find religions as the dominant labels for in-groups and out-groups. But it’s a good bet."

No. That's a lousy bet. The most murderous regions of the world in the twentieth century, by FAR, are those where the 'out-groups' were theist and the 'in-groups' were those who wanted, like Dawson, to eliminate religion.

RELIGION isn't the problem. People are. And they will remain 'the problem' no matter what they come up with to excuse their actions. Yes, they have used religion. Recent history has proven, however, that getting rid of religion only means that there are other things they can use instead....and be just as nasty.

Or nastier.
 
It Aint Necessarily So

It Aint Necessarily So

Veteran Member
Premium Member
dmap said:
Do quotes such as these following qualify as activism, meaning, wishing for change in society? (Argumentation is a tool of activism, an action.)

All these quotes assume it's better if there were no religion, with the assumption that certain intuitions promote religion.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think I would abolish schools which systematically inculcate sectarian beliefs.
--Richard Dawkins

How any government could promote the Vardy academies in the North-East of England is absolutely beyond me. Tony Blair defends them on grounds of diversity, but it should be unthinkable in the 21st century to have a school whose head of science believes the world is less than 10,000 years old.
--Richard Dawkins

How dare you force your dopey unsubstantiated superstitions on innocent children too young to resist? How DARE you?
--Richard Dawkins

Pat Robertson would be harmless comedy, were he less typical of those who today hold power and influence in the United States.
--Richard Dawkins, The God Delusion

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.
--Richard Dawkins, The God Delusion

Look carefully at any region of the world where you find intractable enmity and violence between rival groups today. I cannot guarantee that you’ll find religions as the dominant labels for in-groups and out-groups. But it’s a good bet.
--Richard Dawkins, The God Delusion

If children were taught to question and think through their beliefs, instead of being taught the superior virtue of faith without question, it is a good bet that there would be no suicide bombers.
--Richard Dawkins, The God Delusion

If you feel trapped in the religion of your upbringing, it would be worth asking yourself how this came about. The answer is usually some form of childhood indoctrination. If you are religious at all it is overwhelmingly probable that your religion is that of your parents.
--Richard Dawkins, The God Delusion

I know I am in danger of being misunderstood by those people, all too numerous, who cannot distinguish a statement of belief in what is the case from an advocacy of what ought to be the case.
--Richard Dawkins, The Selfish Gene

Faith is an evil precisely because it requires no justification and brooks no argument.
--Richard Dawkins, The God Delusion

Even if religion did no other harm in itself, its wanton and carefully nurtured divisiveness – its deliberate and cultivated pandering to humanity’s natural tendency to favour in-groups and shun out-groups – would be enough to make it a significant force for evil in the world.
--Richard Dawkins, The God Delusion

If I convert it's because it's better that a believer dies than that an atheist does.
--Christopher Hitchens, Mortality

Religion is a totalitarian belief. It is the wish to be a slave. It is the desire that there be an unalterable, unchallengeable, tyrannical authority who can convict you of thought crime while you are asleep, who can subject you to total surveillance around the clock every waking and sleeping minute of your life, before you're born and, even worse and where the real fun begins, after you're dead.
--Christopher Hitchens

I absolutely refuse to associate myself with anyone who cannot discern the essential night-and-day difference between theocratic fascism and liberal secular democracy....
--Christopher Hitchens, Christopher Hitchens and His Critics: Terror, Iraq, and the Left

Those of us who have freedom of speech will feel free to describe your teachings as the spreading of falsehoods, and will attempt to demonstrate this to your children at our earliest opportunity. Our future well-being—the well-being of all of us on the planet—depends on the education of our descendants.
--Daniel C. Dennett, Darwin's Dangerous Idea: Evolution and the Meanings of Life
Click to expand...

Yes, that's activism by atheists to me, and I applaud it. Christianity has declared war on atheists. Christianity is the atheist's enemy, and he or she has every right to try to push that religion back. Here's the argument from a previous post:

Consider the scriptures that describe unbelievers:

[1] "The fool says in his heart,'There is no God.' They are corrupt, their deeds are vile; there is no one who does good" - Psalm 14:1

[2] "But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone, and all and the enemy of a good god." - Revelation 21:8

[3]"Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness?"- 2 Corinthians 6:14

[4] Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ." - 1 John 2:22

[5] "Whoever is not with me is against me" - Luke 11:23

[6] “Anyone who does not provide for their relatives, and especially for their own household, has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.” - 1 Timothy 5:8

[7] "They are puzzled that you do not continue running with them in the same decadent course of debauchery, so they speak abusively of you" – 1 Peter 4:4​

Collectively, these words depict atheists as lying, corrupt, vile, wicked, abominable, decadent, debauched, godless vessels of darkness in the service of evil, not one of whom does any good, fit to be shunned and to be burned alive forever as enemies of a good god, and the moral equivalent of murderers and whoremongers. I hope nobody expects atheists to respect this religion.

And what are the consequences of this religious bigotry and atheophobic hate speech? At one time, unbelievers could be legally tortured or killed. Until recently, they were defined as too immoral to be allowed to adopt, teach, coach, or serve on juries. Even now, it is very difficult for an atheist to be elected to a public office.

A US president said this:
  • "No, I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered as patriots. This is one nation under God."- American President George H. W. Bush
Christianity turned my own president against me. Made him disesteem me for no good reason.

What should this atheist think about the religion that taught an American president to consider hard-working, law-abiding American atheists trying to raise their families, help their neighbors, and make their communities better places to live in such a contemptuous and defamatory way? What affect or respect should I have for such an institution as the Christian church?

Or this:
  • "Settle it therefore in your minds, as a maxim never to be effaced or forgotten, that atheism is an inhuman, bloody, ferocious system, equally hostile to every useful restraint and to every virtuous affection; that, leaving nothing above us to excite awe, nor round us to awaken tenderness, it wages war with heaven and with earth: its first object is to dethrone God, its next to destroy man." - Rev. Robert Hall
Or this:
upload_2019-7-14_16-37-22.png
upload_2019-7-14_16-38-13.png
upload_2019-7-14_16-38-23.png


And here is what Christianity has done to atheists:

NEW REPORT CASTS ATHEISTS AS "OTHERS" BEYOND MORALITY AND COMMUNITY IN AMERICA

freethoughtassociation.org -&nbspThis website is for sale! -&nbspcenter for inquiry michigan freethought atheists atheism freethinkers humanism humanists agnosticism Resources and Information.

"Atheists have become the ultimate scapegoats in our culture... but the news isn't all bad! A new study by the University of Minnesota Department of Sociology has found that Americans perceive Atheists as the group least likely to embrace common values and a shared vision of society. Worse yet, Atheists are identified as the cohort other Americans do not want to see their offspring marrying.

[snip]

"Researchers concluded: "Americans rate atheists below Muslims, recent immigrants, gays and lesbians and other minority groups in 'sharing their vision of American society.' Atheists are also the minority group most Americans are least willing to allow their children to marry." Disturbingly, Atheists are "seen as a threat to the American way of life by a large portion of the American public," despite being only 3% of the U.S. population according to Dr. Edgell, associate sociology professor and the lead researcher in the project."



Sorry, but I have every right and reason to oppose this religion as strenuously as I can until it can no longer harm good people in this manner, and I encourage other atheists to recognize what this religion does to them, and act accordingly..

​
​
 
Revoltingest

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
dianaiad said:
What 'modern day' atheist activists do, however, is go further than that.
It's one thing to insure that nobody is forced to participate in beliefs they don't hold.
Click to expand...
As a non-believer, I see a different picture.
Perhaps the most coercive means to conform to Christianity is in court.
As I've oft pointed out lately, I've been expected to swear an oath to
God...the Christian one...no choice of Allah, Thor, Ganesh, etc.
I'm loath to pretend to be one of them, so I ask for a secular oath.
Thereby, I must tacitly announce that I'm not a Christian...& worst of
all, perhaps a heathen, a non-believer, an apostate, or an atheist.

I could cite surveys & scripture to show that Christians have a
religious basis for their high percentage of adherents who think
low of atheists, & don't trust us to be moral or honest. (One
study had us ranking down there with rapists.)

Christians & pretenders will escape notice of judge or jury by
perfunctorily swearing the default oath, which is to to God.
But those who ask for the secular oath stand out by asking &
by answering an unconventional oath.
Does this work for or against us? Given that we're the minority,
I say the latter. I know this doesn't get on the radar of believers,
but then....they're unaffected. The system caters to them.

So yes, I want to go further than we have.
Just likely not as much as you fear.
It's quite another to forbid people from expressing their religious beliefs, voluntarily, simply because someone might see them.
This 'freedom from religion' rather than 'freedom OF religion" is a very scary concept.
Click to expand...
FYI, I oppose prohibiting religion.
But I also oppose the state financing & enforcing it.
One of the quotes from Dawson...."Look carefully at any region of the world where you find intractable enmity and violence between rival groups today. I cannot guarantee that you’ll find religions as the dominant labels for in-groups and out-groups. But it’s a good bet."

No. That's a lousy bet. The most murderous regions of the world in the twentieth century, by FAR, are those where the 'out-groups' were theist and the 'in-groups' were those who wanted, like Dawson, to eliminate religion.

RELIGION isn't the problem. People are. And they will remain 'the problem' no matter what they come up with to excuse their actions. Yes, they have used religion. Recent history has proven, however, that getting rid of religion only means that there are other things they can use instead....and be just as nasty.
Click to expand...
As for Dawkins, I don't read him, & don't defend him.

Religion is sometimes the problem.
But it depends upon what the religion preaches, & how many follow it.
Boko Haram practices a version of Islam which is indeed trouble.
Contrast that with the Amish, who cause no trouble for others at
all...except sometimes during rumspringa.
 
dianaiad

dianaiad

Well-Known Member
icehorse said:
@dmap I believe it was also Dawkins who has called for teaching unbiased, comparative religion in schools. The point is to quell indoctrination, and let people decide for themselves.
Click to expand...

DID he?

I find that to be....er....possibly apocryphal. I've read a lot of Dawson. I don't think I've ever heard that he advocated this. I would, however, love to see a quote from him about that.

Of course, I CAN believe that he would have advocated the teaching of 'comparative religion' from the atheist "none of these are true so let's show you how stupid they are" POV.

Rather like that story I was told about how the Soviet Union indoctrinated their school kids.

The story went: the teacher would instruct all the students in class to bow their heads and pray for candy. Of course, no candy appeared. THEN the teachers instructed them to ask 'the state' for candy. At this point the teacher went around the room and put candy on every desk.

The point of the story was, of course, that God wouldn't do anything for you, but the 'state' as represented by the teacher, would.

I have, of course, no clue whether Soviet teachers actually DID this, but I can see Dawson liking the idea as 'comparative religion' classes.

I like the way Utah does it. In high school the students get one period per day to do ...whatever...with. If they take religion classes (the CoJCoLDS calls it 'seminary') they can go off campus, take the class and return to school. If they don't want to take religious classes, they stay on campus and take an extra academic, sports, music or art class.

The school district has nothing to do with WHAT is offered, religiously, and the kids do have to go off campus. Freedom OF religion is assured for those who want to participate, and those who don't want to?

Don't have to and are not exposed to it.

Works quite well for everybody.
 
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