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For Christians: A Feel-Good Religious Culture

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
A Feel-Good Religious Culture

Commenting on the situation in the United States, Newsweek magazine candidly stated: “Many clergy, who are competing in a buyer’s market, feel they cannot afford to alienate.” They fear that if they make great moral demands on their hearers, they will lose them as parishioners. People do not want to hear that they should cultivate humility, self-discipline, and virtue or that they should heed their nagging conscience and repent of their sins. Hence, many churches are adopting what the Chicago Sun-Times called “a therapeutic, utilitarian, even narcissistic ‘all about me’ Christian message [and] leaving the gospel behind.”

The outgrowth of this type of thinking is a religious culture that defines God in its own terms, churches whose focus is, not on God and what he requires of us, but on man and what will increase his self-esteem. The sole aim is to cater to the needs of the congregation. The fruit is religion emptied of doctrine. “What fills the hole at the center, where the Christian moral code used to be?” asks The Wall Street Journal. “An ethic of conspicuous compassion, where ‘being a nice person’ excuses everything.”

Logically, the harvest from all of this is the attitude that any religion with a feel-good effect is just fine. Anyone adopting such a view, observes The Wall Street Journal, “can embrace any faith, so long as it makes no real moral demands—consoles but does not judge.” And the churches, in turn, are willing to accept people “exactly for who they are,” without making any moral demands on them.

The foregoing may remind Bible readers of a prophecy penned by the apostle Paul in the first century C.E. He said: “There will be a period of time when they will not put up with the healthful teaching, but, in accord with their own desires, they will accumulate teachers for themselves to have their ears tickled; and they will turn their ears away from the truth.”—2 Timothy 4:3, 4.

When religious leaders excuse sin, deny its existence, and ‘tickle’ the ears of their congregants by telling them what they want to hear instead of what the Bible says, they are doing people a grave disservice. Such a message is false and dangerous. It represents a travesty of one of the fundamental teachings of Christianity. Sin and forgiveness occupy a central position in the good news taught by Jesus and his apostles.

Excerpt from Sin—What Has Changed? — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

So has the definition of sin morphed into a definition of permissiveness? Will the churches answer for their failure to uphold the teachings of the one they claim to worship?

That is sound advice.

Regards Tony
 

The Reverend Bob

Fart Machine and Beastmaster
There are a lot of good selfish traits to have that are useful and beneficial. With self-seeking too.

The crummy ego ~ not so much it would seem.
Selfishness is selfishness and not anything else. If you are a self-seeking narcissistic egotist looking to feel good you aren't being anything beneficial to anyone else you are a psychopath
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
Unfortunately this disease is growing like a cancer.

Its a demonstration of what people really want.....just a "feel good" experience that gives them an emotional fix and doesn't really require anything else from them. Their pastor knows it all for them and hey look! he can make people do silly stuff. So useful that....:rolleyes: Can any of us imagine Jesus doing anything like that? :facepalm:
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
What would God need from a powerless human being? From what I see, most human beings do need themselves built up.

Romans 12:3...Paul answers that question...
"For through the undeserved kindness given to me, I tell everyone there among you not to think more of himself than it is necessary to think, but to think so as to have a sound mind, each one as God has given to him a measure of faith."

Self esteem is vitally important to the human psyche. (What is that George Benson song..."The Greatest Love of All"?) It is necessary to think well of oneself and yet keep a humble spirit, but an overblown ego stretches it all out of shape. A sound mind in the Christian faith humbly asks what pleases God first, not what pleases him/herself.

I’ve heard this a lot. But it wouldn’t be the sin that gets judged, and put through any kind of hellfire, it’s the sinner. Or the sin going to the grave, it’s the sinner.

This is why God asks a person to repent and leave their sin behind.....didn't Jesus say "go and sin no more"?
What that does is separate the sinner from their sin, so that when God removes the wicked, this one will not be among them. If God has to remove the wicked in order to benefit the righteous, (as he promises) then all have the same opportunity to stop practicing what God says is wrong. Most don't have the will. Because it requires loving God more than they love themselves, they will never be motivated to do it.

If I were to treat others as I’d want to be treated, than gay marriage would be okay. If that were the entire law.

Perverted sex is not what God had in mind when he created humans. Marriage was his design, intended to create families...united loving families where children could grow up loved and wanted, with parents of both sexes to balance their role modeling. In their inherited sinfulness, humans have a propensity to go in the opposite way to God. This is why we have laws.....to keep order and to protect the innocent (as far as this imperfect world will permit at any rate). Gay marriage is not just two people who love each other wanting to live together and 'play house'.....sex is part of that relationship and it has to be of the perverted kind because humans are not designed for same gender sex. It will never result in a pregnancy. It is counter to why God gave this as a form of loving intimacy....not just because it is pleasurable but because it is part of God's way to populate this earth and, in love to produce children and to reinforce our bond with our mate.

If it were true that the entire Bible was inspired by God, since he puts us through tests and trials~how would we know he didn’t have false and silly stuff put in the Bible to test us to see where our minds and hearts are at?

The question is, what "silly stuff" are you referring to? As far as my studies of scripture are concerned, God never does anything without good reason and I have never found "silly stuff" in my studies....ever. I have seen what some might interpret as "silly stuff", but it is misinterpretation and a complete lack of knowledge that leads them to that conclusion IMO.

Got any other examples?

I do agree with a lot of things though, mainly that unconditional love is a sham. Even God would have conditions then.

Life was conditional right from day one.....it required obedience to God's reasonable command in the garden. It was a simple command that caused them no hardship at all, yet still they disobeyed it.
This is what this life is all about.....learning that God is very reasonable in his requests. He sets the standards and it is we who must adjust our thinking to accommodate God's laws...not the other way around.

And yes, nobody should just accept anyone or anything in their particular current states. Some things are changeable and some aren’t.

So God expects us to change what we can.....he never demands the impossible....and he provides what we need to succeed.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
Do you ever give God a bad reputation by anything that you ever say?
I suppose that depends on who is listening. Did Jesus ever say anything that brought reproach on his Father?
Not to his knowledge, but if you asked the Pharisees, you might have gotten a completely different answer....
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
OK, I am on my laptop now so a bit easier to respond when you haven't posted outside the quote box.
Deeje said:
A Feel-Good Religious Culture

Commenting on the situation in the United States, Newsweek magazine candidly stated: “Many clergy, who are competing in a buyer’s market, feel they cannot afford to alienate.” They fear that if they make great moral demands on their hearers, they will lose them as parishioners. People do not want to hear that they should cultivate humility, self-discipline, and virtue or that they should heed their nagging conscience and repent of their sins. Hence, many churches are adopting what the Chicago Sun-Times called “a therapeutic, utilitarian, even narcissistic ‘all about me’ Christian message [and] leaving the gospel behind.”

The outgrowth of this type of thinking is a religious culture that defines God in its own terms, churches whose focus is, not on God and what he requires of us, but on man and what will increase his self-esteem. The sole aim is to cater to the needs of the congregation. The fruit is religion emptied of doctrine. “What fills the hole at the center, where the Christian moral code used to be?” asks The Wall Street Journal. “An ethic of conspicuous compassion, where ‘being a nice person’ excuses everything.”

Logically, the harvest from all of this is the attitude that any religion with a feel-good effect is just fine. Anyone adopting such a view, observes The Wall Street Journal, “can embrace any faith, so long as it makes no real moral demands—consoles but does not judge.” And the churches, in turn, are willing to accept people “exactly for who they are,” without making any moral demands on them.

The foregoing may remind Bible readers of a prophecy penned by the apostle Paul in the first century C.E. He said: “There will be a period of time when they will not put up with the healthful teaching, but, in accord with their own desires, they will accumulate teachers for themselves to have their ears tickled; and they will turn their ears away from the truth.”—2 Timothy 4:3, 4.

When religious leaders excuse sin, deny its existence, and ‘tickle’ the ears of their congregants by telling them what they want to hear instead of what the Bible says, they are doing people a grave disservice. Such a message is false and dangerous. It represents a travesty of one of the fundamental teachings of Christianity. Sin and forgiveness occupy a central position in the good news taught by Jesus and his apostles.

Excerpt from Sin—What Has Changed? — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

So has the definition of sin morphed into a definition of permissiveness? Will the churches answer for their failure to uphold the teachings of the one they claim to worship?


Jesus said:
Matthew 22:36-40
36 “Teacher, what is the most important commandment in the Law?”
37 Jesus answered:
Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, and mind. 38 This is the first and most important commandment.
39 The second most important commandment is like this one. And it is, “Love others as much as you love yourself.”
40 All the Law of Moses and the Books of the Prophets are based on these two commandments.
In 22:40 Jesus is referring to all Jewish Scriptures in the Old Testament.

Yep, love is what the whole of God's law was based on.....even the law on capital punishment. Love for the victim and for justice is served when the guilty are punished.

Love doesn't mean that you have to break any of God's laws to be happy. If you get happy by making God angry then you have defeated your whole purpose in worshipping him.

Jesus also stated that many of the old ritual laws were no longer in affect. For instance, he stated that he was the sacrifice so that sacrifices no longer should be made on the alter.
Jesus also said that there should be no more circumcision and that it is permissible to wear two types of fabrics together along with other changes.

The sacrificial laws no longer applied because Jesus said he came to fulfill the law....and he did. His sacrifice removed the need for any more animal blood to be shed. There was never any change to God's moral laws however. Jesus even returned the Jews to God's original standard for marriage.

Changes were even made in the Old Testament. In the Covenant with Noah, Genesis 9:9-16, God told Noah that it was permissible to eat anything on earth.
Yet, in Leviticus, there were many laws stating that many things could not be eaten.

Interesting with Noah was that the animals that God brought to be included on the ark, God had stipulated that "clean" animals should be 7 in number....and "unclean" animals only 2. Since there was no consumption of animal flesh before the flood, in what sense were these animals considered "clean" or "unclean"? The first thing Noah did on coming out onto dry land was offer God a sacrifice of thanks.....the 7 "clean" animals were obviously the ones that were suitable for sacrifice. 3 breeding pairs, and one to offer to God in gratitude for their salvation.

So, one must carefully read scripture to ensure that the intent of Jesus is kept when reading the Old Testament. Everything must be measured in love.

Of course. There was no other scripture, and Jesus quoted from it all the time. Love motivated everything that Jesus did, yet his public castigation of the Pharisees and his cleansing of the temple of those who made it a "den of thieves", was not loving to those concerned, but motivated by love of God.

What I object to the most are those without love in their hearts who call themselves Christians.

Love is the identifying mark of true Christians. (John 13:34-35) This is a love that has to embrace even an enemy. It is expressed in many ways, both spiritually and materially, seeing a need and filling it according to one's circumstances.
It does not allow a Christian to raise their hand to harm a soul. As Paul said, we are fighting a war but not with carnal weapons...its a spiritual war, fought with spiritual weapons. (2 Corinthians 10:3-5)

What I object to second is that many churches preach the prosperity gospel to obtain money from parishoners when there is no such thing. The Bible, not only does not speak of the prospericy gospel,
but it states not to build up treasures on earth, to let God take care of our needs, to give to the poor, etc. These wolves in sheeps' clothings are defrauding people which does go against God.
They are lying when they say that they are Christians. They are not. If they were, they would have love toward others and would help others instead of building compounds and buying jet planes for themselves.

I agree....so does Jesus. Prosperity is measured in treasures in heaven, not on earth. Its our spiritual bank account that matters. Contributions are a necessary part of worship as Jesus said of those offering their money at the temple. But it was not to be pocketed for the benefit of the pastors, it was for the benefit of the sheep.

The one thing that impressed me about JW's is the fact that no one gets paid. All our elders are self supporting. If we make contributions at our Kingdom Halls, it goes where it is needed for disaster relief and for the support of missionaries and volunteers.

Those without love for their fellow man are not Christians because they are not following Jesus.

So, which behaviors are happening in churches which you object to?

I would echo similar sentiments to your own, but speaking personally, the thing that put me off my own church growing up, was the hypocrisy.
I heard in the 10 Commandments "Thou shalt not kill" and yet here were the churches supporting wars.
One of the local ministers in my area was offered a post as chaplain to the military, which rated him the salary...of a Captain. He left his local church with no minister to take up an offer of more money.

In another area where I lived the local Pastor was an avid golfer. Whilst others were mowing his lawns and offering to clean the church, he was on the golf course. Well, he was offered a post serving the professional golfing circuit and did the same as the other one. Left his church with no minister so that he could go off and pursue his real passion.

I saw pastors living the good life off the money put in the contribution plate passed around each Sunday. It was almost a competition as to who would put in the most money each week. My folks didn't always go to church but they sent money with us kids each week we went to Sunday School. We couldn't afford much but if we missed a week they would come to the house to collect it. When my father died very suddenly, no one came to comfort or help my mother....yet they still turned up to collect their money. I never did see much good in any of them. Some good people, but not much good in the leadership.

It wasn't until I really studied the Bible that I realized how far the churches have strayed from the Christianity taught by Jesus.

Once your eyes are opened, you will never see them the same way again. :(
 
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This is why God asks a person to repent and leave their sin behind.....didn't Jesus say "go and sin no more"?

From perspective taught to me, and not from man ~ sin is ignorance and to sin is an act from ignorance. Once made aware ~ or in other words, the blind seeing ~ sure, sin no more.

Marriage was his design, intended to create families.

Marriage in scripture taught to me is referring to an internal union, internal bonds, internal uniting ~ not the outward stuff of man.

The question is, what "silly stuff" are you referring to?

The “homosexual” for one. Anyone who has grown more spiritually mature knows that with having sex, the kingdom will not come within. Yet while being abstinent for a decent period of time ~ it can. So for me, a homosexual refers to:
“Homo”= human. Sexual= having sex.

Going back to what was said above, and what you have mentioned ~ sex before marriage is bad because ~ it requires abstinence before someone can be internally wed and united. Spilling the seed clouds judgement, and emotions get in the way. The only difference is ~ your mind sees things from an outward perspective and literal, whereas mine sees them from an internal, rational perspective.

He sets the standards and it is we who must adjust our thinking to accommodate God's laws...not the other way around.

If someone had the mind of God, or Christ consciousness ~ they see that practically all of the laws mankind try to impose on others are foolish and not of God.
 
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His sacrifice removed the need for any more animal blood to be shed.

Do you ever think how silly it is for a God to need literal animal sacrifices and literal animal blood to be shed? Why even bother trying to defend and justify something that absurd? Really gives God a bad and absurd rep. But ~ humans always think outwardly, historically, and literally.

Every human has an animal nature. This nature is what is sacrificed. And every human has blood in them, the life of them.

no consumption of animal flesh before the flood,

No consumption of anything that ties to the animal lower nature of themselves, before the flood can occur ~ which also occurs inside ~ destroys and washes the wicked world in a human.
 
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Selfishness is selfishness and not anything else. If you are a self-seeking narcissistic egotist looking to feel good you aren't being anything beneficial to anyone else you are a psychopath

Then the self cannot seek truth or goodness, or anything because it would be selfish to do so. It would be selfish to ever want or desire to feel good in any way.

If someone else is trying to harm yourself, just submit then because it would be selfish to resist.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
From perspective taught to me, and not from man ~ sin is ignorance and to sin is an act from ignorance. Once made aware ~ or in other words, the blind seeing ~ sure, sin no more.

Not sure who taught you your perspective but Biblically, "sin" is the opposite of ignorance. It is the willful disobeying of God's commands. Ignorance can sometimes absolve a person in small matters, if they genuinely did not know any better, but with a God-given conscience, we are all basically programmed to know instinctively when something is right or wrong.

Marriage in scripture taught to me is referring to an internal union, internal bonds, internal uniting ~ not the outward stuff of man.

Marriage is the uniting of two people that involves a union of mind, body and spirit. You cannot separate them because they are a package. Who told you otherwise?

[/quote]The “homosexual” for one. Anyone who has grown more spiritually mature knows that with having sex, the kingdom will not come within. Yet while being abstinent for a decent period of time ~ it can. So for me, a homosexual refers to:
“Homo”= human. Sexual= having sex.[/quote]

"Homosexual" is an English word....the word in Greek is "arsenokoitēs" which is translated "homosexual" because it refers to anal copulation or sodomy. So it isn't just humans having sex....that was to be enjoyed only within the confines of scriptural marriage. Homosexual sex is outlawed in God's word, as is any form of immorality. (1 Corinthians 6:9-10; Leviticus 18:22)
There is no legitimate justification for sex outside of marriage, either straight or gay.....although that does not stop people from trying to make it acceptable to God and the whole world.

Going back to what was said above, and what you have mentioned ~ sex before marriage is bad because ~ it requires abstinence before someone can be internally wed and united. Spilling the seed clouds judgement, and emotions get in the way. The only difference is ~ your mind sees things from an outward perspective and literal, whereas mine sees them from an internal, rational perspective.

I believe God see everything. He knows when we break his laws. He will not accept justification like we do.

If someone had the mind of God, or Christ consciousness ~ they see that practically all of the laws mankind try to impose on others are foolish and not of God.

Well, to my knowledge and belief, if we base all our conduct and thinking on God's word, it will keep us from making errors in judgment that can cost us our eternal life......at the end of the day, its the only one that matters. Forever is a long time to be dead, if other choices could have allowed you to live and enjoy God's creation eternally.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
Do you ever think how silly it is for a God to need literal animal sacrifices and literal animal blood to be shed? Why even bother trying to defend and justify something that absurd? Really gives God a bad and absurd rep. But ~ humans always think outwardly, historically, and literally.

God's law to Israel was very literal but full of symbolic meaning. Blood represented life itself and the sacrificed animals were precious and valuable possessions of the people who owned them. Sacrificing the very best they had to give to God was a test of their character and the strength of their spirituality and love for God. Would they selfishly keep the best for themselves, or unselfishly give it to the one who had given them everything they had?

God was willing to sacrifice the very best he had, so would humans respond in kind? The blood of that sacrifice atoned for sin and gave them temporary forgiveness. When Israel was at a low ebb (spiritually speaking) the people were sacrificing their blind and lame animals, reflecting the weakness of their spirituality and love for their Creator. (Malachi 1:8) He rejected such sacrifices....like he rejects lame excuses today.

No consumption of anything that ties to the animal lower nature of themselves, before the flood can occur ~ which also occurs inside ~ destroys and washes the wicked world in a human.

Sounds airy fairy.....anything you can provide as scriptural backing for that?
I see a much more rational explanation than that....one supported by the scriptures, which form the basis for my faith. You can read symbolism into everything if you have a good imagination, but the symbolic things in scripture are well defined IMV.

As I understand it, the flood served two purposes...one in Noah's day to deal with a situation that was brought about by the course of rebellious angels, who came to earth and materialized human bodies in order to have relations with earth's beautiful women. This created an atmosphere of extreme wickedness in humans that could not be tolerated....God showed the only righteous man in existence how to save himself, and it took a monumental effort to accomplish it. God cleansed the earth and started fresh.

The second purpose is seen in our own time, where Jesus used the days of Noah as an example of what would happen again at the time of his return. (Matthew 24:37-39) Again God showed humans how to save themselves through another end of another age. And again, monumental effort is required to keep separate from the wickedness of the world around us. God will again cleanse the earth, but this time it will be permanent. There will again be survivors.
 
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