sooda
Veteran Member
Is that Bible Belt area?
Yep.. They marry early and basically get left behind.. and they will sue you in a heartbeat.
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Is that Bible Belt area?
Yep.. They marry early and basically get left behind.. and they will sue you in a heartbeat.
I think that is reflective of the culture rather than the religion itself.
Here in South Africa there are radically different communities and the religions affect each with different results. JW's in poor areas are poor and uneducated because that is the culture in the area. JW's in rich areas are generally well off and educated because that is the culture in the area.
From what I know about America it somehow produces fundamentalist groups such as JW's, Mormons, Adventists, etc, which would mean that there is something within certain communities in America which maybe provide a catalyst for such groups. And the people in America who follow such groups, especially within the Bible Belt, are really extreme in their viewpoints. Even among JW's in South Africa, American JW's are seen as weird, over the top and especially ignorant.
You are correct to a point. All Southerners are not uneducated.. Pentecostals and JWs definitely have a common problem.
I hope I didn't give the impression I think all Southerners are uneducated. That would be illogical on my part. i do think that many of the fundamentalists are nutters though.
Yeah and so defensive..
Bearing in mind that λόγος can be translated not only as 'word' but in a number of other ways, John 1:1 reads ─First fake
In the old scriptures of the Bible it says in John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Is the New World Translation a valid version of the Bible?
but in the "Bible" of the Jehovah's Witnesses it says
... and the Word was a God.
These are actually good verses to explain how God operates....If one is to believe in the trinity and read this passage from Matthew which I think is one of the best counter verses to it:
The Baptism of Jesus
13 Then Jesus came from Galilee to the Jordan to be baptized by John.
14 But John tried to deter him, saying, “I need to be baptized by you, and do you come to me?”
15 Jesus replied, “Let it be so now; it is proper for us to do this to fulfill all righteousness.” Then John consented.
16 As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting on him.
17 And a voice from heaven said, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.”
What exactly is going on here, if the trinity is correct? If all of them are part of the trinity it is basically God that decent on himself and declare that he is pleased with himself. That sounds very strange and unlikely to me, that this is actually meant to be understood like that.
Bearing in mind that λόγος can be translated not only as 'word' but in a number of other ways, John 1:1 reads ─
Ἐν....ἀρχῇ......ἦν....ὁ...λόγος..καὶ...ὁ...λόγος..ἦν....πρὸς....τὸν.θεόν.καὶ.θεὸς.ἦν...ὁ...λόγος.As you can see, the first mention of god, τὸν θεόν [ton theon, the accusative case of ὁ θεὸς ho theos], is preceded by the definite article τὸν ─ the god, which is the standard Greek expression for 'God' in the NT.
At beginning was the word and the word was towards THE god and god was the word.
And the second mention of god, θεὸς [theos], has no definite article. This is how old Greek conveys the sense of our indefinite article, and is correctly translated as 'a god'. (That is, were 'the god' intended, it would be ho theos.)
So there's nothing wrong, or even unusual, with the translation.
I have to say that the explanation given in that chapter you linked is as confusing as every other explanation of the trinity I have heard And with no reference to where these informations are gained or why one ought to believe it.The Baha’i Faith believes in a Trinity, and the detailed explanation is in this chapter: 27: THE TRINITY
What they believe is that Jesus is the first created being. Therefore not God himself. Everything was created by God through him. And the fact that the verse says he was WITH God, means that he was a separate entity from God according to JW belief. Also the aspect of who created existence, focuses on who it is created by, and who it is created through. It is created by God through Jesus. That is how they see it (which I don't believe is the correct view) but they do not consider themselves polytheists.
First, my interest in John 1 is to find out what the author intended to convey. Accordingly I have no wish or need for him to say any particular thing. Second, in the NT ho theos means the Christian 'God', and theos without the article means 'a god'. In other words, you have no basis for calling the translation you attribute to the JWs a 'lie'. Third, the reason theos and logos are both nominative case is because the verb is eimi. Latin esse does the same."The most well-known of all the New World Translation perversions is John 1:1. The original Greek text reads, “the Word was God.” The NWT renders it as “the word was a god.” This is not a matter of correct translation, but of reading one's preconceived theology into the text, rather than allowing the text to speak for itself. There is no indefinite article in Greek (in English, "a" or "an"), so any use of an indefinite article in English must be added by the translator. This is grammatically acceptable, so long as it does not change the meaning of the text.
I had hoped that my explaining in brief what was in that chapter would help, but.....I have to say that the explanation given in that chapter you linked is as confusing as every other explanation of the trinity I have heard And with no reference to where these informations are gained or why one ought to believe it.
Ahm, Jesus creates the universe in Paul and has always lived with God in heaven in John because both Paul and John have a gnostic outlook and regard Jesus as the demiurge. In other words, neither Paul nor the author of John thinks Jesus is God, and each expresses that view clearly. The authors of Mark, Matthew and Luke do not think of their respective Jesuses as the demiurge; but they all agree that Jesus is not God.I'm aware of the JW's revisionist beliefs. Saying Jesus is a created being when the Bible says Jesus created all things (Colossians 1:16 - including principalities) is another one of their remarkable absurdities. Is there anyone other than God who can create all things? No.
Do the guys who say "All Gays will go to Hell" and "God hates Gays" come mainly from there?
yes there is only one God, nobody denies that either. Unfortunately you do not understand the Trinity.Mark 12:29 Jesus answered, “The first is, ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one;” ... 32 And the scribe said to him, “You are right, Teacher; you have truly said that he is one, and there is no other but he;
So what?Matthew 20:23 “to sit at my right hand and at my left is not mine to grant, but it is for those for whom it has been prepared by my Father.”
Matthew 24:36 “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only.”
Luke 18:19 “Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone.”
John 10:29 “My Father [...] is greater than all”.
Yes, Jesus did what his father wanted. Because Jesus is the flesh and his father is the soul. The body obeys the soul.John 6:38 “For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will, but the will of him who sent me”
So what?John 17:3 “And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.”
John 20:17 “I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.”
So what?Corinthians 8:6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.
Philippians 2:9 Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name which is above every name, 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.