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Christians Only Please: I had a religious experience.

YeshuaRedeemed

YeshuaRedeemed

Revelation 3:10
W

whirlingmerc

Well-Known Member
I don't see Titus 2:13 as necessarily pre trib

Since John is writing to his fellow Christians who are experiencing 'the tribulation that is in Jesus' I wonder if the whole pre tribulation focus is missing somethings that are important.

We do go through a measure of persecution and tribulation in this world but the sufferings we go though are not worth comparing to the glory to come
 
usfan

usfan

Well-Known Member
..imo, too much has been made of the 'theory' of rapture.

Certainties:
1. Christians should expect resistance and difficulty, just because of their faith.
2. The Day of Reckoning will come.. maybe in our lifetime, maybe not..:shrug:
3. He who endures to the end will be saved. Finishing the race, not starting, or even winning, is what counts.
4. People believe a great many peripheral things.. few (if any) are essential to one's walk with God.

..for the record, I'm pan-trib.. everything will pan out.. ;)
 
W

whirlingmerc

Well-Known Member
usfan said:
..imo, too much has been made of the 'theory' of rapture.

Certainties:
1. Christians should expect resistance and difficulty, just because of their faith.
2. The Day of Reckoning will come.. maybe in our lifetime, maybe not..:shrug:
3. He who endures to the end will be saved. Finishing the race, not starting, or even winning, is what counts.
4. People believe a great many peripheral things.. few (if any) are essential to one's walk with God.

..for the record, I'm pan-trib.. everything will pan out.. ;)
Click to expand...

I agree.

These things I have spoken to you, that in Me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation; but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world.”

I see about 20 cases in the New Testament where believers are in tribulation and about 6 cases where unbelievers were. It seems tribulation in some sense is a normal state of believers in the world.

God protected the Jews while he sent plagues to the Egyptians.
I think we should hope in God and not worry about 'the schedule'
The gospel will be preached to the nations and then the end shall come.

Revelation 1:9
[ Vision of the Son of Man ] I, John, both your brother and companion in the tribulation and kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was on the island that is called Patmos for the word of God and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Revelation 2:9
“I know your works, tribulation, and poverty (but you are rich); ....

However I will respect the conscience of people like John MacAurther who might hold to such a view.
 
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Shiranui117

Shiranui117

Pronounced Shee-ra-noo-ee
Premium Member
Historically, the Rapture is a very new idea that was only birthed in around the 1800's. Of all the thousands of Biblical scholars and theologians who studied the Bible from the 1st century to the modern era, none of them postulated the idea of the Rapture. We Christians are meant to bear suffering patiently, as Christ did. It would be shameful for us to be spared the same suffering that our Lord went through; it would be proof that we were too weak to suffer as did the thousands of martyrs under the Roman Empire and the Islamic Caliphates, or the million-plus Christians who gave their lives for Christ under the Soviets, the Communists and the Islamic terrorists.

Christ didn't promise us a cakewalk where we would be spared suffering. He told us that we would suffer, but He would be with us to help us bear it.
 
YeshuaRedeemed

YeshuaRedeemed

Revelation 3:10
whirlingmerc said:
I don't see Titus 2:13 as necessarily pre trib

Since John is writing to his fellow Christians who are experiencing 'the tribulation that is in Jesus' I wonder if the whole pre tribulation focus is missing somethings that are important.

We do go through a measure of persecution and tribulation in this world but the sufferings we go though are not worth comparing to the glory to come
Click to expand...
Revelation 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
 
Shiranui117

Shiranui117

Pronounced Shee-ra-noo-ee
Premium Member
YeshuaRedeemed said:
Revelation 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
Click to expand...
This doesn't mean that God will spare us from the tribulations. It means that He will help us and strengthen our resolve so our faith doesn't waver when the tribulations come. Do you remember in the Lord's Prayer where we pray "And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil"? That doesn't mean that no temptation will ever befall us. Rather, it means that God will help us to overcome the temptation if we remain steadfast in Him.
 
YeshuaRedeemed

YeshuaRedeemed

Revelation 3:10
Shiranui117 said:
This doesn't mean that God will spare us from the tribulations. It means that He will help us and strengthen our resolve so our faith doesn't waver when the tribulations come. Do you remember in the Lord's Prayer where we pray "And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil"? That doesn't mean that no temptation will ever befall us. Rather, it means that God will help us to overcome the temptation if we remain steadfast in Him.
Click to expand...
 
sooda

sooda

Veteran Member
Shiranui117 said:
Historically, the Rapture is a very new idea that was only birthed in around the 1800's.

Of all the thousands of Biblical scholars and theologians who studied the Bible from the 1st century to the modern era, none of them postulated the idea of the Rapture. We Christians are meant to bear suffering patiently, as Christ did.

It would be shameful for us to be spared the same suffering that our Lord went through; it would be proof that we were too weak to suffer as did the thousands of martyrs under the Roman Empire and the Islamic Caliphates, or the million-plus Christians who gave their lives for Christ under the Soviets, the Communists and the Islamic terrorists.

Christ didn't promise us a cakewalk where we would be spared suffering. He told us that we would suffer, but He would be with us to help us bear it.
Click to expand...

You're correct and the whole rapture heresy didn't gain and traction until the 1930s with the Tent Revivals during the Dust Bowl and Great Depression.

Its terrible scholarship.. that depends on a lack of education.

The tribulation was over in 70 AD after 42 months... concluding in August during the grape harvest .. Jesus followers were warned to flee to the mountains. They did. They went to Pella.
 
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