Trailblazer
Veteran Member
So the only reason atheists don't go on killing sprees are because of religions?
No, I never said or meant that. I was thinking that being educated and civilized would preclude killing sprees.
It is debatable whether a tribe that kills a man just for encroaching on their territory is moral. They might have unity within the tribe but does that make them moral? I did not follow that story very well but as I recall they did warn him what would happen and he persisted so maybe what happened is understandable. He took a risk so he should not have been surprised at the outcome.Also do you truly believe that savages around the world have no morals?
Its obviously sad to see a person getting killed, because he believes its so important to spread the word of Jesus. But how do you think that these people have survived on that Island for 30000 years, if they have no morals? That they stick together and attack any outside threats shows that they have morals and unity within the tribe.
That is not what I am claiming. I am not claiming that all people can choose between good and evil simply because they have free will, this was just a very simple explanation not intended to cover all scenarios. He just meant that generally speaking, people can choose between good and evil if they are a relatively normal person without a mental illness or a brain disorder. I mean most people can choose not to rape and murder other people and most people can choose to be relatively kind to other people.Because assuming that a person is capable of choosing between good and evil purely based on free will is wrong. This is just one of many stories.
Obviously Whitman was not “free” to decide because the tumor was interfering with his thinking processes and making him compulsive, not free to choose. But if people wake up one day and decide that they want to be a pedophile that could be a choice or it could be because of a mental illness or brain dysfunction. Just because they might have had a bad childhood that does not mean they are unable to choose between right and wrong behavior. I am not letting them off the hook that easily.The Brain on Trial
This is just a story about how tumors can affect our behavior and therefore its difficult to assume that Whitman was in fact deciding through free will to do evil. Also you do not choose which flavor of ice cream you like. Also people do not wake up one day and decide that they want to be a pedophile etc. So saying that we have free will to choose between good and evil is not as simple as just deciding one over the other, as it makes it sound in the writing that you quoted and why I say that they are on the brink of being wrong, but that they seem to be based on what most of us think, when we talk free will, that we are in complete control, but we ain't.
I am also not saying that anyone is free to choose anything they want to do. Free will is constrained by many factors such as childhood upbringing, heredity, education, adult experiences, and present life circumstances. How free we are varies with every given situation we find ourselves in. However, because we have two natures we are free to make moral choices according to one or the other nature. Otherwise, we would just be at the mercy of our past and present experiences and our heredity. If humans did not have free will how could we be responsible for our actions and held accountable in a court of law?
First off, we have to realize that Bahaullah was raised as a Muslim, so He grew up believing in the God of Islam, which is the same conception of God that Baha’is have, the One True God of monotheism, the same God Jews believe in but the one Christians kind of mucked up with their believe in the Trinity. So, when Baha’u’llah got His Revelation, we can assume that he already knew who God was.But if we can't trust the bible as you have said several times, which is the foundation for God that you seem to believe in. Then how does Baha'u'llah know that its that God we are talking about and not some other God?
The basis of the God that I believe in comes from what Baha’u’llah wrote, since I was never the adherent to any other religion before I became a Baha’i. You are right that I believe that everything Baha’u’llah wrote is the truth about God not up for questioning because that is a core Baha’i belief.I can understand that me referring to the bible constantly, can seem annoying. But Im trying to figure out where the basis of God, that you believe in even comes from, as I really don't think its obvious based on your explanations. It seems to be, like you are solely basing everything on Baha'u'llah telling the truth and that it is not up for questioning, is that correct?
Divine unity means that we believe that the Will of Baha’u’llah was identical to the Will of Baha’u’llah. That means that everything He wrote is the same as if God had written it Himself. The following passage is a very important passage to understand and hopefully you will understand why everything Baha’u’llah wrote carries so much weight for me.
“The essence of belief in Divine unity consisteth in regarding Him Who is the Manifestation of God and Him Who is the invisible, the inaccessible, the unknowable Essence as one and the same. By this is meant that whatever pertaineth to the former, all His acts and doings, whatever He ordaineth or forbiddeth, should be considered, in all their aspects, and under all circumstances, and without any reservation, as identical with the Will of God Himself. This is the loftiest station to which a true believer in the unity of God can ever hope to attain. Blessed is the man that reacheth this station, and is of them that are steadfast in their belief.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 167
It is notable that no other religion has this belief about Manifestations of God being identical to God. Christians believe that Jesus was an incarnation but a Manifestation of God is not an incarnation because He is not God in the flesh, although in every other way He is God. Jews do not believe that about Moses and Muslims do not believe that about Muhammad, they believe they were fallible human Prophets who revealed a message from God.