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What is the Trinity?

MJFlores

Well-Known Member
oH yehhhh!!!
Horus, Osiris and Isis.
The great Trinity from where AchariahS claims the Trinity developed from.
A mother, a Father and a Child.
These 3 are one god. (Oops no it isnt!!!)
They are immortal. (oh golly they all died!)
Horus was born a virgin birth. (Uhmmm, his mother was married to Osiris, and had plenty sex. She got hold of Osiris' corpse and used his Phalus to impregnate herself to get pregnant with Horus)

Please explain to me the Trinity in this regard!

There was no idea of a Trinity in Egypt, but the 8 gods ruling class!

Oh, then we have Brama, Vishnu and Shiva.
Theis is obviously where the Trinity originated from!!!
(O damn, it dates from the late 800' AD!, by that time the Trinity was already 700 years old.
So who coppied who?

And a nice picture of a 3 headed god dating from?

1840?
What does this say?

Please give me answers to why you think this is the origins of the Trinity.
I dont understand how you got to this!

The Trinity



Can we find the word Trinity in the Bible?

Is the teaching about the Trinity can be found in the bible?

From cover to cover of the bible, can we find that the Father, Son and the Holy spirit are one God?

From cover to cover of the bible, can we find that JESUS CHRIST said that he is GOD?

We can understand what Trinity really means and discover its origin if we will open our minds and hearts, are we ready to face the truth?



What is Trinity?

The trinity in the dictionary means:

“the union of the three divine persons (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) in one Godhead”.
What is the history of the Trinity doctrine?

Is it true that it is a teaching that can be found in the bible? Or the fact that it only showed in the 4th century, formed by the high ranking officials in the Catholic Church and that there are so many formulas involved on formulating it?

I will not give my any opinion here, let us just read wikipedia:


History
Origin of the formula

The basis for the doctrine of the Trinity is found in New Testament passages that associate the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Two such passages are Matthew's Great Commission: "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit" and St Paul's: "The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all."[2 Cor. 13:14]
In 325, the Council of Nicaea adopted a term for the relationship between the Son and the Father that from then on was seen as the hallmark of orthodoxy; it declared that the Son is "of the same substance" (ὁμοούσιος) as the Father. This was further developed into the formula "three persons, one substance".

The answer to the question "What is God?" indicates the one-ness of the divine nature, while the answer to the question "Who is God?" indicates the three-ness of "Father, Son and Holy Spirit".

Saint Athanasius, who was a participant in the Council, stated that the bishops were forced to use this terminology, which is not found in Scripture, because the Biblical phrases that they would have preferred to use were claimed by the Arians to be capable of being interpreted in what the bishops considered to be a heretical sense.

They therefore "commandered the non-scriptural term homoousios ('of one substance') in order to safeguard the essential relation of the Son to the Father that had been denied by Arius."

The Confession of the Council of Nicaea said little about the Holy Spirit. The doctrine of the divinity and personality of the Holy Spirit was developed by Athanasius (c 293 - 373) in the last decades of his life. He both defended and refined the Nicene formula. By the end of the 4th century, under the leadership of Basil of Caesarea, Gregory of Nyssa, and Gregory of Nazianzus (the Cappadocian Fathers), the doctrine had reached substantially its current form.

Formulation of the doctrine

The most significant developments in articulating the doctrine of the Trinity took place in the 4th century, with a group of men known as the Church Fathers. Although the earliest Church Fathers had affirmed the teachings of the Apostles, their focus was on their pastoral duties to the Church under the persecution of the Roman Empire.

Thus the early Fathers were largely unable to compose doctrinal treatises and theological expositions. With the relaxing of the persecution of the church during the rise of Constantine, the stage was set for ecumenical dialogue.

Trinitarians believe that the resultant councils and creeds did not discover or create doctrine, but rather, responding to serious heresies such as Arianism, articulated in the creeds the truths that the orthodox church had believed since the time of the apostles.

The Ante-Nicene Fathers, although very likely foreign to the specifics of Trinitarian theology because they were not defined until the 4th century, nevertheless affirmed Christ's deity and referenced "Father, Son and Holy Spirit". Trinitarians view these as elements of the codified doctrine.

The Trinitarian view has been affirmed as an article of faith by the Nicene (325/381) and Athanasian creeds (circa 500), which attempted to standardize belief in the face of disagreements on the subject. These creeds were formulated and ratified by the Church of the third and fourth centuries in reaction to heterodox theologies concerning the Trinity and/or Christ.

The Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed, revised in 381 by the second of these councils, is professed by the Eastern Orthodox Church and, with one addition (Filioque clause), the Roman Catholic Church, and has been retained in some form in the Anglican Communion and most Protestant denominations.

The Nicene Creed, which is a classic formulation of the doctrine of the Trinity, uses "homoousios" (Greek for "of the same essence") of the relation of the Son's relationship with the Father. This word differs from that used by non-Trinitarians of the time, "homoiousios" (Greek for "of similar essence"), by a single Greek letter, "one iota", a fact proverbially used to speak of deep divisions, especially in theology, expressed by seemingly small verbal differences.

One of the (probably three) Church councils that in 264–266 condemned Paul of Samosata for his Adoptionist theology also condemned the term "homoousios" in the sense he used it. Fourth-century Christians who objected to the Nicene trinity made copious use of this condemnation by a reputable council.

Moreover, the meanings of "ousia" and "hypostasis" overlapped at the time, so that the latter term for some meant essence and for others person. Athanasius of Alexandria (293–373) helped to clarify the terms.

Because Christianity converts cultures from within, the doctrinal formulas as they have developed bear the marks of the ages through which the church has passed. The rhetorical tools of Greek philosophy, especially of Neoplatonism, are evident in the language adopted to explain the church's rejection of Arianism and Adoptionism on one hand (teaching that Christ is inferior to the Father, or even that he was merely human), and Docetism and Sabellianism on the other hand (teaching that Christ was an illusion, or that he was identical to God the Father).

Augustine of Hippo has been noted at the forefront of these formulations; and he contributed much to the speculative development of the doctrine of the Trinity as it is known today, in the West; the Cappadocian Fathers (Basil the Great, Gregory of Nyssa, and Gregory Nazianzus) are more prominent in the East. The imprint of Augustinianism is found, for example, in the western Athanasian Creed, which, although it bears the name and reproduces the views of the fourth century opponent of Arianism, was probably written much later.

These controversies were for most purposes settled at the Ecumenical councils, whose creeds affirm the doctrine of the Trinity.

According to the Athanasian Creed, each of these three divine persons is said to be eternal, each almighty, none greater or less than another, each God, and yet together being but one God, So are we forbidden by the Catholic religion to say: There are three Gods or three Lords.—Athanasian Creed, line 20.

Modalists attempted to resolve the mystery of the Trinity by holding that the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost are modes, aspects or roles, of God. This anti-Trinitarian view contends that the three "persons" are not distinct persons, but titles which describe how humanity has interacted with or experienced God. In the role of the Father, God is the provider and creator of all. In the mode of the Son, man experiences God in the flesh, as a human, fully man and fully God.

God manifests himself as the Holy Spirit by his actions on Earth and within the lives of Christians. This view is known as Sabellianism, and was rejected as heresy by the Ecumenical Councils although it is still prevalent today among those denominations known as "Oneness" and "Apostolic" Pentecostal Christians, the largest of which is the United Pentecostal Church International. Trinitarianism, on the other hand, insists that the Father, Son and Spirit simultaneously exist as three persons in one essence, each fully the same God.

The doctrine developed into its present form precisely through this kind of confrontation with alternatives; and the process of refinement continues in the same way. Even now, ecumenical dialogue between Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, Roman Catholic, the Assyrian Church of the East, Anglican and Trinitarian Protestants, seeks an expression of Trinitarian and Christological doctrine which will overcome the extremely subtle differences that have largely contributed to dividing them into separate communities. The doctrine of the Trinity is therefore symbolic, somewhat paradoxically, of both division and unity. source: wikipedia
 

blü 2

Veteran Member
Premium Member
The argument against the Trinity goes as such.

Trinitarians believe in 3 gods. The Trinity was concocted by Constantine, or some even claim that Paul invented the Trinity. The Unitarians again, they claim that the Trinity derived from Egyptian or Indian paganism.
The Trinity doctrine states that

the One God exists in three persons and one substance.
The three persons have various names but may be called the Father, Jesus, and the Holy Ghost.

The 'substance' comes from Aristotle's οὐσία [ousia], the meaning of which is variously defined. With the Trinity, it indicates 'the underlying being' which all three persons share while remaining distinct. The actual nature of 'underlying being' is the subject of many comments. Since no evidence suggests that such a thing exists in reality, it seems fair to say its meaning is as flexible as that of any other imaginary thing.

The concept of the Trinity is not found in the NT, where Jesus never once claims to be god, and on at least 17 occasions states that he's not God. Paul likewise distinguishes between Jesus as Lord and the Father as God.

It develops out of political pressures in the early church, first to elevate Jesus to god status, and second to avoid the charge of polytheism, which was identified with pagan belief. Various versions of it were proposed in the second and third centuries but rejected because they didn't satisfy the second requirement. In particular,

the three persons are NOT each a fraction of God (eg NOT ⅓+⅓+⅓=1)

nor are they three aspects of a single god (Jesus is NOT the Father, Jesus is NOT the Ghost, the Father is NOT the Ghost)

nor are they are a trio of gods,

nor is God a corporation with three board members.
But in the fourth century the Trinity notion as first mentioned above was accepted as doctrine.

Here, EACH of the Father, the Son and the Ghost is of [him]self 100% of God ie 1+1+1=1.

Not only is this incoherent but the churches acknowledge that it's incoherent. They do so by calling it 'a mystery in the strict sense' which means it 'can neither be known by unaided human reason apart from revelation, nor cogently demonstrated by reason after it has been revealed.'

The incoherence steps into the light at other various places. Matthew's Jesus must be understood to have cried out on the cross, 'Me, me why have I forsaken me?'. Matthew's and Luke's Jesuses are the biological son of God (necessarily have God's Y chromosome), and since each of the Father, Jesus and the Ghost are 100% of God, Jesus and the Ghost each have as good a claim to the title 'Father' as the Father does. And so on.

And of course, when you pray to God, who answers the phone?
Is there anything in the Universe that can be compared with the Trinity?
I can't think of any other character, real or in fiction who has an incoherent specification of this kind, no. However, we can readily invent one, eg a Foursome god, a Fivesome god, and so on.
 
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SA Huguenot

Well-Known Member
The very first words in Genesis actually shows the plurality of the Trinity as a singular entity.
In the beginning Elohim(plural) He created (singular).
 

Spartan

Well-Known Member
These citation in your reference are not early references. They are references mostly during the time, and after the gospels were being edited, redacted, and compiled. The Council of Niea and the other councils simply certified what the Church Fathers believed.

In response to your request the point of my response was clear that there are specific citations in the New Testament that were edited to support the Trinity. There were at least several different beliefs concerning the nature and relationship of Jesus Christ and God.

The Psalms nor anywhere in the OT can be referenced to specifically support the Trinity.

Sorry to disappoint but Jesus, as a distinct part of the Trinity, was prophesied as God in numerous passages:

Jesus Must be Jehovah
 

SA Huguenot

Well-Known Member
You don't know more than the Jews do.
I am working on the writings of one of the greatest jewish scholars, CWH Pauli, who once he understood what the Trinity was meant, he became Christian and converted at least 5 000 Jews in Germany.
I dont have to know more than Jews, I need to know what scripture says.
Anyhow, let me give some more verses I found on the plurality of YHWH.

Note these verses comes from the Old Testament, and it is this that was used by the Christians in the council of Nicea to deternine the divinity of Christ. Even though the NAME "Trinity" was not coined untill 400 AD, the understanding that YHWH is the Father, Jesus and the Holy spirit was an unattested understanding by all Christians.
The Lord’s Lord (at Sodom) (Gen 19: 24)(Jeremiah 50: 40) (Amo 4:11)
Gen 19:24 And Jehovah rained brimstone and fire on Sodom and Gomorrah, from Jehovah out of the heavens.
Jer 50:40 As God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah and their neighbors, states Jehovah, so no man shall live there, nor shall a son of man stay in it.
Amo 4:11 I have overturned among you, as God overturned Sodom and Gomorrah, and you were like a firebrand plucked out of the burning; yet you have not returned to Me, declares Jehovah.

God sends an Angel in front of Israel and His name is in Him. (Exod 23: 20-21)

Exo 23:20
Behold, I am about to send an Angel before you, to guard you in the way, and to bring you to the place which I have prepared.
Exo 23:21 Be on guard before Him, and listen to His voice. Do not be rebellious against Him, for He will not forgive your transgressions; for My name is in Him.

God descended from a cloud and proclaimed the Name of God (Exodus 34: 5- 6)
Exo 34:5 And Jehovah came down in the cloud. And he placed himself there with Him, and he called on the name of Jehovah.
Exo 34:6 And Jehovah passed by before his face and called out: Jehovah! Jehovah God! Merciful and gracious, slow to anger, and great in goodness and truth,

The Angel of the LORD (Jesus) made a covenant with Israel’s fathers. (Judges 2: 1)
Jdg 2:1 And an angel of the LORD came up from Gilgal to Bochim, and said, I made you to go up out of Egypt, and have brought you unto the land which I sware unto your fathers; and I said, I will never break my covenant with you.

Gideon spoke to the Angel of the LORD who called Himself LORD (Yahweh). (Judges 6: 11, 14, 22 - 23)
Jdg 6:11 And there came an angel of the LORD, and sat under an oak which [was] in Ophrah, that [pertained] unto Joash the Abiezrite: and his son Gideon threshed wheat by the winepress, to hide [it] from the Midianites.
Jdg 6:14 And the LORD (Yahweh) looked upon him, and said, Go in this thy might, and thou shalt save Israel from the hand of the Midianites: have not I sent thee?
Jdg 6:22 And when Gideon perceived that he [was] an angel of the LORD, Gideon said, Alas, O Lord GOD! for because I have seen an angel of the LORD face to face.
Jdg 6:23 And the LORD said unto him, Peace [be] unto thee; fear not: thou shalt not die.

The God of Israel told David that the Rock of Israel spoke to him. (2 Sam 23: 2-3)
2Sa 23:2 The Spirit of Jehovah has spoken by me, and His Word is on my tongue.
2Sa 23:3 The God of Israel said, the Rock of Israel spoke to me: One ruling over man righteously, who rules in the fear of God,

God says to David “God” will battle ahead of David. (1 Chronicles 14: 14- 15)
1Ch 14:14 And David again inquired of God. And God spoke to him, You shall not go up after them; turn away from them and come to them across from the weeping trees.
1Ch 14:15 And it shall be, when you hear the sound of marching in the tops of the weeping trees, then you shall go out in the battle; for God has gone out before you to strike the army of the Philistines.

The begotten son (Psalm 2: 7- 12)
Psa 2:7 I will declare concerning the statute of Jehovah: He said to Me, You are My Son. Today I have begotten You.
Psa 2:8 Ask of Me, and I will give the nations as Your inheritance; and the uttermost parts of the earth as Your possession.
Psa 2:9 You shall break them with a rod of iron; You shall dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.
Psa 2:10 Now, then, be wise, O kings; be taught, O judges of the earth:
Psa 2:11 Serve Jehovah with fear; yea, rejoice with trembling.
Psa 2:12 Kiss the Son, lest He be angry, and you perish from the way, when His wrath is kindled but a little. Oh the blessings of all those who flee to Him for refuge!

God (Elohim) anointed His God (Elohim)! (Psa 45:6- 7)
Psa 45:6 Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; the scepter of Your kingdom is a scepter of uprightness.
Psa 45:7 You love righteousness and hate wickedness; on account of this God, Your God, has anointed You with the oil of gladness more than Your fellows..

The Lord said onto my Lord. (Psalm 110: 1, 4)
Psa 110:1 A Psalm of David. A declaration of Jehovah to my Lord: Sit at My right hand, until I place Your enemies as Your footstool.
Psa 110:4 Jehovah has sworn and will not repent: You are a priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek.

Wisdom created everything with God. (Proverbs 8: 15-16, 22- 36)
Pro 8:15 By me (Wisdom) kings reign, and leaders decree righteousness.
Pro 8:16 Rulers and nobles rule by me, and all the judges of the earth.
Pro 8:22 Jehovah possessed me in the beginning of His way, from then, before His works.
Pro 8:23 I was set up from everlasting, from that which was before the earth.
Pro 8:24 When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no springs heavy with water.
Pro 8:25 Before the mountains were settled, before the hills, I was brought forth;
Pro 8:26 before He had made the earth and the fields, or the highest part of the dust of the world.
Pro 8:27 When He prepared the heavens, I was there; when He set a circle on the face of the deep,
Pro 8:28 when He formed the clouds above, when He made the strong fountains of the deep,
Pro 8:29 when He gave to the sea its limit, that the waters should not pass beyond His command; when He decreed the foundations of the earth,
Pro 8:30 then I was at His side, like a master workman; and I was His delights day by day, rejoicing before Him at every time;
Pro 8:31 rejoicing in the world, His earth; and my delight was with the sons of men.
Pro 8:32 And now listen to me, O sons, for blessed are those who keep my ways.
Pro 8:33 Hear instruction, and be wise, and do not refuse it.
Pro 8:34 Blessed is the man listening to me, watching daily at my gates, waiting at the posts of my doors.
Pro 8:35 For whoever finds me finds life, and he shall obtain favor from Jehovah.
Pro 8:36 But he who sins against me does violence to his own soul; all who hate me love death.
 

SA Huguenot

Well-Known Member
What is God’s SON’s NAME? (Pro 30: 4)

Pro 30:4 Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what [is] his name, and what [is] his son's name, if thou canst tell?

Behold your God! Who directed the Spirit of God? (Isaiah 40: 9, 10-11, 13-14)
Isa 40:9
Go up for yourself on the high mountain, one bearing good news to Zion; lift up your voice with strength, one bearing good news to Jerusalem. Lift up, do not fear. Say to the cities of Judah, Behold! Your God!
Isa 40:10 Behold, the Lord Jehovah will come with strength, and His arm rules for Him. Behold, His reward is with Him, and His wage before Him.
Isa 40:11 He shall feed His flock like a shepherd; He shall gather lambs with His arm; and carry them in His bosom; those with young He will lead;
Isa 40:13 Who has meted out the Spirit of Jehovah, or a man His counsel taught Him?
Isa 40:14 With whom did He take counsel, and who trained Him and taught Him in the path of justice; and taught Him knowledge, and made known to Him the way of discernment?

God’s servant who gives light to the Gentiles. (Isaiah 42: 1, 5-6)
Isa 42:1
Behold My Servant; I will uphold Him; My Elect in whom My soul delights! I have put My Spirit on Him; He shall bring forth justice to the nations.
Isa 42:5 So says Jehovah God, creating the heavens and stretching them out; spreading out the earth and its offspring, giving breath to the people on it, and spirit to those walking in it.
Isa 42:6 I, Jehovah, have called You in righteousness, and will hold Your hand, and will keep You, and give You for a covenant of the people, for a Light of the nations;

I AM HE. The Lord our Redeemer, the Holy one. (Isaiah 43: 10-15)
Isa 43:10
You are My witnesses, says Jehovah; and My servant whom I have elected; that you may know and believe Me, and understand that I am He. Before Me there was no God formed; nor shall any be after Me.
Isa 43:11 I, I am Jehovah; and there is no Savior besides Me.
Isa 43:12 I declared, and I saved, and I proclaimed; and there is not an alien god among you. And you are My witnesses, says Jehovah, and I am God.
Isa 43:13 Yea, from this day I am He, and no one delivers from My hand. I will work, and who will reverse it?
Isa 43:14 So says Jehovah, your Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel: For your sake I have sent to Babylon, and have brought all of them down as ones fleeing, even the Chaldeans, whose shout is in the ships.
Isa 43:15 I am Jehovah, your Holy One, the Creator of Israel, your King.

The Lord God, and His Spirit, has sent Me. (Isaiah 48:12-13, 15-17)
Isa 48:12
Listen to Me, O Jacob, and Israel My called: I am He; I am the First; surely I am the Last.
Isa 48:13 My hand surely founded earth, and My right hand has stretched out the heavens; I called to them, they stood up together.
Isa 48:15 I, I have spoken; yea, I have called him, I brought him, and he causes his way to prosper.
Isa 48:16 Come near to Me; hear this: I have not spoken in secret from the beginning. From its being, I was there; and now the Lord Jehovah, and His Spirit, has sent Me.
Isa 48:17 So says Jehovah, your Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel, I am Jehovah your God, who teaches you to profit, who leads you in the way you should go.

God will raise onto David a righteous Branch, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS (Jer 23:5 -6)
Jer 23:5
Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
Jer23:6 In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this [is] his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

Out of Bethlehem, Ephrata, comes a ruler in Israel of old, from everlasting. (Mic5:2)
Mic 5:2
And you, Bethlehem Ephratah, being least among the thousands of Judah, out of you He shall come forth to Me to become One ruling in Israel; and His goings forth have been from of old, from the days of eternity.
Mic 5:4 And He shall stand and feed in the strength of Jehovah, in the majesty of the name of Jehovah His God. And they shall sit, for now He is great to the ends of the earth.

They will look upon him they pierced. (Zec 12: 8, 10)
Zec 12:8
In that day Jehovah shall protect around those living in Jerusalem. And it will be, he who is feeble among them in that day shall be like David, and the house of David shall be like God, like the Angel of Jehovah before them.
Zec12:10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for [his] only [son], and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for [his] firstborn.


OK, I have hundreds more verses in the OT that shows YHWH, His Spirit, and His Son, but I believe the above is enough to stop anyone from claiming that the Trinity is not in the Bible.
Here I showed only the Old Testament.
The next one will be some verses in the New Testament!
Not 1Jn5: 7to 9, even though I like it.
 

MJFlores

Well-Known Member
Why can't the Trinity be Moses, Mary and Judas? or add Joseph, John and Peter in as well.

I'll go with Larry, Curly and Moe.

giphy.gif
 

sooda

Veteran Member
What is God’s SON’s NAME? (Pro 30: 4)

Pro 30:4 Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what [is] his name, and what [is] his son's name, if thou canst tell?

Behold your God! Who directed the Spirit of God? (Isaiah 40: 9, 10-11, 13-14)
Isa 40:9
Go up for yourself on the high mountain, one bearing good news to Zion; lift up your voice with strength, one bearing good news to Jerusalem. Lift up, do not fear. Say to the cities of Judah, Behold! Your God!
Isa 40:10 Behold, the Lord Jehovah will come with strength, and His arm rules for Him. Behold, His reward is with Him, and His wage before Him.
Isa 40:11 He shall feed His flock like a shepherd; He shall gather lambs with His arm; and carry them in His bosom; those with young He will lead;
Isa 40:13 Who has meted out the Spirit of Jehovah, or a man His counsel taught Him?
Isa 40:14 With whom did He take counsel, and who trained Him and taught Him in the path of justice; and taught Him knowledge, and made known to Him the way of discernment?

God’s servant who gives light to the Gentiles. (Isaiah 42: 1, 5-6)
Isa 42:1
Behold My Servant; I will uphold Him; My Elect in whom My soul delights! I have put My Spirit on Him; He shall bring forth justice to the nations.
Isa 42:5 So says Jehovah God, creating the heavens and stretching them out; spreading out the earth and its offspring, giving breath to the people on it, and spirit to those walking in it.
Isa 42:6 I, Jehovah, have called You in righteousness, and will hold Your hand, and will keep You, and give You for a covenant of the people, for a Light of the nations;

I AM HE. The Lord our Redeemer, the Holy one. (Isaiah 43: 10-15)
Isa 43:10
You are My witnesses, says Jehovah; and My servant whom I have elected; that you may know and believe Me, and understand that I am He. Before Me there was no God formed; nor shall any be after Me.
Isa 43:11 I, I am Jehovah; and there is no Savior besides Me.
Isa 43:12 I declared, and I saved, and I proclaimed; and there is not an alien god among you. And you are My witnesses, says Jehovah, and I am God.
Isa 43:13 Yea, from this day I am He, and no one delivers from My hand. I will work, and who will reverse it?
Isa 43:14 So says Jehovah, your Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel: For your sake I have sent to Babylon, and have brought all of them down as ones fleeing, even the Chaldeans, whose shout is in the ships.
Isa 43:15 I am Jehovah, your Holy One, the Creator of Israel, your King.

The Lord God, and His Spirit, has sent Me. (Isaiah 48:12-13, 15-17)
Isa 48:12
Listen to Me, O Jacob, and Israel My called: I am He; I am the First; surely I am the Last.
Isa 48:13 My hand surely founded earth, and My right hand has stretched out the heavens; I called to them, they stood up together.
Isa 48:15 I, I have spoken; yea, I have called him, I brought him, and he causes his way to prosper.
Isa 48:16 Come near to Me; hear this: I have not spoken in secret from the beginning. From its being, I was there; and now the Lord Jehovah, and His Spirit, has sent Me.
Isa 48:17 So says Jehovah, your Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel, I am Jehovah your God, who teaches you to profit, who leads you in the way you should go.

God will raise onto David a righteous Branch, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS (Jer 23:5 -6)
Jer 23:5
Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
Jer23:6 In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this [is] his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

Out of Bethlehem, Ephrata, comes a ruler in Israel of old, from everlasting. (Mic5:2)
Mic 5:2
And you, Bethlehem Ephratah, being least among the thousands of Judah, out of you He shall come forth to Me to become One ruling in Israel; and His goings forth have been from of old, from the days of eternity.
Mic 5:4 And He shall stand and feed in the strength of Jehovah, in the majesty of the name of Jehovah His God. And they shall sit, for now He is great to the ends of the earth.

They will look upon him they pierced. (Zec 12: 8, 10)
Zec 12:8
In that day Jehovah shall protect around those living in Jerusalem. And it will be, he who is feeble among them in that day shall be like David, and the house of David shall be like God, like the Angel of Jehovah before them.
Zec12:10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for [his] only [son], and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for [his] firstborn.


OK, I have hundreds more verses in the OT that shows YHWH, His Spirit, and His Son, but I believe the above is enough to stop anyone from claiming that the Trinity is not in the Bible.
Here I showed only the Old Testament.
The next one will be some verses in the New Testament!
Not 1Jn5: 7to 9, even though I like it.

Do you have a link?
 

MJFlores

Well-Known Member
Oh wow!
Now we can use the Mormons to tell us that God is not a Trinity!
And we will show 28 verses that proves God is one.
Realy?
Is this the best argument?
Look at your own Quote from the Bible.
"Hear oh Israel our God, our God is one."
it actually translates to :
HEAR ISRAEL! YHWH YOUR GODS IS YHWH ONE!"
TRINITY!!!!

55ce555b79c483e4c24c76a96fa86904.jpg



Trinity:
A Different Gospel





THE TRINITARIANS KNEW that if they cannot prove that the doctrine of the trinity is biblical, this doctrine cannot be accepted by true Christians because according to Apostles Paul we must condemned the “different gospel.” In Galatians 1:6-8, this is what Apostle Paul said:

“I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel - which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned!” (Galacia 1:6-8 NIV)

According to the Apostles Paul, “Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ.” The beloved apostle called their teaching as “a different gospel” and admonish the Christians to condemned these teachings.Apostle Peter clearly warned us that false teachers will appear and will bring destructive, untrue doctrines:

"False prophets appeared in the past among the people, and in the same way false teachers will appear among you. They will bring in destructive, untrue doctrines, and will deny the Master who redeemed them, and so they will bring upon themselves sudden destruction." (II Peter 2:1 TEV)

What Apostle Peter calls as “destructive, untrue doctrine” is what Apostle Paul calls as “different gospel,” which is a confused and perverted gospel of Christ.What is an example of what the Lord Jesus Christ taught that “perverted” and “confused” by the false teachers? In John 17:1 and 3, this is what the Lord Jesus Christ said:

“After Jesus said this, he looked toward heaven and prayed: 'Father, the time has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you.
“Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.” (John 17:1 and 3 NIV)

Christ taught us that there is only one true God, the Father. This is the teaching of the Lord Jesus Christ regarding the true God that we all must accept and adhere. He said, “Father…this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God.” Remember what Apostle Paul said, “Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ.” Thus, the false teachers will confused and pervert the teaching of the Lord Jesus Christ that there is only one true God, the Father.

How did the false teachers confused and perverted the teaching of the Lord Jesus Christ that there is only one true God and that the Father is the only true God?





The Perverted Doctrine about God

What Apostle Paul referring to as “a different gospel” is a perverted gospel of Christ. The word “pervert” means “misinterpret or distort something.” Thus, a misinterpreted or distorted gospel or doctrine of Christ about God is “a different gospel” that we must condemned. The Lord Jesus Christ said that “the Father is the only true God.” How did the false teachers perverted or distorted this teaching of Christ? A Catholic book titled “The Creed” tells is the doctrine of the Catholic Church about God:

“The three persons then, being only one God, are perfectly equal in perfection, majesty and glory: ‘the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit possess one God-head, equal glory and co-eternal majesty. As the Father is, so is the Son, also is the Holy Spirit…the Father is God, the Son is God, the Holy Spirit is God. And yet they are not three Gods, but only one God’ (from the Athanasian Creed).” [Gran, Sister Ma. Valerie, D.S.P. The Creed. Nihil Obstat: Rt. Rev. Msgr. Victor R. Serrano, H.P. Imprimatur: Rt. Rev. Msgr. Benjamin L. Marino, P.A. Pasay, Metro Manila, Phillipines: Daughters of St. PaulPublications, 1984, p. p. 50.]

The Catholics and even the Protestants believe that there are three persons in one God - the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God, and these three are only one God. However, the gospel or the teachings of Christ clearly states that the Father alone is the only true God. The doctrine of the Trinity is indeed a perversion of distortion of the teachings of Christ about God.

There are people who insist that the doctrine of the Trinity (that there is God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit, and these trhee are one God) is not a distortion of the teaching of Christ that the the Father is the only true God. Apostle Paul has an explanation why they cannot see the light of the Gospel of Christ:

“The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.” (II Corinthians 4:4 NIV)

The trinitarians (those who adhere to the Trinitarian doctrine) insist that the Trinitry is the true Chrisian doctrine. However, this is what apostle Paul teaches about the true Christian doctrine about God:

"Yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live." (I Corinthians 8:6 NIV)

Apostle Paul said, "For us" (he is referring to the true Christians), "there is but one God, the Father." Thus, the true Christians adhere the teaching of the Lord Jesus Christ that the Father is the only true God. This proves that the doctrine that the one true God are the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit is the perverted or distorted teaching of the Lord Jesus Christ which adhere by true Christians that the father alone is the only true God.
 

SA Huguenot

Well-Known Member
55ce555b79c483e4c24c76a96fa86904.jpg



Trinity:
A Different Gospel






THE TRINITARIANS KNEW that if they cannot prove that the doctrine of the trinity is biblical, this doctrine cannot be accepted by true Christians because according to Apostles Paul we must condemned the “different gospel.” In Galatians 1:6-8, this is what Apostle Paul said:

“I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel - which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned!” (Galacia 1:6-8 NIV)

According to the Apostles Paul, “Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ.” The beloved apostle called their teaching as “a different gospel” and admonish the Christians to condemned these teachings.Apostle Peter clearly warned us that false teachers will appear and will bring destructive, untrue doctrines:

"False prophets appeared in the past among the people, and in the same way false teachers will appear among you. They will bring in destructive, untrue doctrines, and will deny the Master who redeemed them, and so they will bring upon themselves sudden destruction." (II Peter 2:1 TEV)

What Apostle Peter calls as “destructive, untrue doctrine” is what Apostle Paul calls as “different gospel,” which is a confused and perverted gospel of Christ.What is an example of what the Lord Jesus Christ taught that “perverted” and “confused” by the false teachers? In John 17:1 and 3, this is what the Lord Jesus Christ said:

“After Jesus said this, he looked toward heaven and prayed: 'Father, the time has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you.
“Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.” (John 17:1 and 3 NIV)

Christ taught us that there is only one true God, the Father. This is the teaching of the Lord Jesus Christ regarding the true God that we all must accept and adhere. He said, “Father…this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God.” Remember what Apostle Paul said, “Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ.” Thus, the false teachers will confused and pervert the teaching of the Lord Jesus Christ that there is only one true God, the Father.

How did the false teachers confused and perverted the teaching of the Lord Jesus Christ that there is only one true God and that the Father is the only true God?





The Perverted Doctrine about God

What Apostle Paul referring to as “a different gospel” is a perverted gospel of Christ. The word “pervert” means “misinterpret or distort something.” Thus, a misinterpreted or distorted gospel or doctrine of Christ about God is “a different gospel” that we must condemned. The Lord Jesus Christ said that “the Father is the only true God.” How did the false teachers perverted or distorted this teaching of Christ? A Catholic book titled “The Creed” tells is the doctrine of the Catholic Church about God:

“The three persons then, being only one God, are perfectly equal in perfection, majesty and glory: ‘the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit possess one God-head, equal glory and co-eternal majesty. As the Father is, so is the Son, also is the Holy Spirit…the Father is God, the Son is God, the Holy Spirit is God. And yet they are not three Gods, but only one God’ (from the Athanasian Creed).” [Gran, Sister Ma. Valerie, D.S.P. The Creed. Nihil Obstat: Rt. Rev. Msgr. Victor R. Serrano, H.P. Imprimatur: Rt. Rev. Msgr. Benjamin L. Marino, P.A. Pasay, Metro Manila, Phillipines: Daughters of St. PaulPublications, 1984, p. p. 50.]

The Catholics and even the Protestants believe that there are three persons in one God - the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God, and these three are only one God. However, the gospel or the teachings of Christ clearly states that the Father alone is the only true God. The doctrine of the Trinity is indeed a perversion of distortion of the teachings of Christ about God.

There are people who insist that the doctrine of the Trinity (that there is God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit, and these trhee are one God) is not a distortion of the teaching of Christ that the the Father is the only true God. Apostle Paul has an explanation why they cannot see the light of the Gospel of Christ:

“The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.” (II Corinthians 4:4 NIV)

The trinitarians (those who adhere to the Trinitarian doctrine) insist that the Trinitry is the true Chrisian doctrine. However, this is what apostle Paul teaches about the true Christian doctrine about God:

"Yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live." (I Corinthians 8:6 NIV)

Apostle Paul said, "For us" (he is referring to the true Christians), "there is but one God, the Father." Thus, the true Christians adhere the teaching of the Lord Jesus Christ that the Father is the only true God. This proves that the doctrine that the one true God are the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit is the perverted or distorted teaching of the Lord Jesus Christ which adhere by true Christians that the father alone is the only true God.
And we will get to what the New Testament says about Jesus and His divine nature.
Then your whole argument will fall appart, because what is written in the NT, is what Christians believed in the first century to the 4th century.
 

MJFlores

Well-Known Member
And we will get to what the New Testament says about Jesus and His divine nature.
Then your whole argument will fall appart, because what is written in the NT, is what Christians believed in the first century to the 4th century.

The first century Christians never believed in the Trinity.
What they believed was there was one God and that one God isn't the Son and isn't the HS.

The apostles of Jesus Christ believed in the Old Testament writings of the prophets for example the prophet Malachi

Malachi 2:10 New International Version (NIV)
Do we not all have one Father? Did not one God create us? Why do we profane the covenant of our ancestors by being unfaithful to one another?

Even the Lord Jesus Christ believed in the one true God and even preached about Him

images


John 17:1-3 New King James Version (NKJV)
Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: “Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You, as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him. And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.

According to the Lord Jesus - the Father is the only true God
According to Jesus, those who believe that the Father is the only true God has ETERNAL LIFE
According to Jesus, the only true God who is the Father sent Jesus Christ hence God is the sender
According to Jesus, those who do not believe this has NO ETERNAL LIFE
So on Judgement Day, because they did not believe this - they are going to

giphy.gif


Then your whole argument will fall appart, because what is written in the NT,

Now that is written in the New Testament which it is perplexing why a lot of people wouldn't believe what the Lord Jesus said. Ah, because they want to believe what they like to believe instead of believing what is written in the NT.

John+17%3A1-3+These+words+spake+Jesus%2C+and+lifted+up+his+eyes+to+heaven%2C+and+said%2C+Father%2C+the+hour+is+come%3B+glorify+thy+Son%2C+that+thy+Son+also+may+glorify+thee%3A+As+thou+hast+given+him+power+over+all+flesh%2C+that+he+should+give+eternal+life+to+as+many+as+thou+hast+given+him..jpg


What is written is written. It is up for the person to believe and live.
 

SA Huguenot

Well-Known Member
The first century Christians never believed in the Trinity.
What they believed was there was one God and that one God isn't the Son and isn't the HS.

The apostles of Jesus Christ believed in the Old Testament writings of the prophets for example the prophet Malachi

Malachi 2:10 New International Version (NIV)
Do we not all have one Father? Did not one God create us? Why do we profane the covenant of our ancestors by being unfaithful to one another?

Even the Lord Jesus Christ believed in the one true God and even preached about Him

images


John 17:1-3 New King James Version (NKJV)
Jesus spoke these words, lifted up His eyes to heaven, and said: “Father, the hour has come. Glorify Your Son, that Your Son also may glorify You, as You have given Him authority over all flesh, that He should give eternal life to as many as You have given Him. And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.

According to the Lord Jesus - the Father is the only true God
According to Jesus, those who believe that the Father is the only true God has ETERNAL LIFE
According to Jesus, the only true God who is the Father sent Jesus Christ hence God is the sender
According to Jesus, those who do not believe this has NO ETERNAL LIFE
So on Judgement Day, because they did not believe this - they are going to

giphy.gif


Then your whole argument will fall appart, because what is written in the NT,

Now that is written in the New Testament which it is perplexing why a lot of people wouldn't believe what the Lord Jesus said. Ah, because they want to believe what they like to believe instead of believing what is written in the NT.

John+17%3A1-3+These+words+spake+Jesus%2C+and+lifted+up+his+eyes+to+heaven%2C+and+said%2C+Father%2C+the+hour+is+come%3B+glorify+thy+Son%2C+that+thy+Son+also+may+glorify+thee%3A+As+thou+hast+given+him+power+over+all+flesh%2C+that+he+should+give+eternal+life+to+as+many+as+thou+hast+given+him..jpg


What is written is written. It is up for the person to believe and live.
I agree whole heartedly.
What is written is written.
lets see what is written!
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
And we will get to what the New Testament says about Jesus and His divine nature.
Then your whole argument will fall appart, because what is written in the NT, is what Christians believed in the first century to the 4th century.

There are enough references in the words of Jesus that he is not God, and the documented citations of added text in the NT to justify the belief in the Trinity. The Trinity has now grounds in the OT in fact many references deny it.
 
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