What is True Belief?

Religion has always felt like an uphill trudge where I would never be "worth it". There was life as a Pseudo Baptist, then as a non-denominational Evangelical, all for 30 years. The way that folk ignored the words of Jesus Christ after 9/11 convinced me that "their" Jesus was plastic, not real. I left to search, because belief in God was unshakeable.

Winding up in Islam, that lasted for more than 7 years, but it didn't feel like their view of Jesus Christ was respectful enough, like they gave more credence to Muhammad PBUH than they did Jesus. When pressed though, most would say Jesus is the Best Prophet.

Then I met some Mormon Sister Missionaries, and over the next 2 years was convinced that their version of Jesus Christ was true. They said I would be fully accepted, and I felt healed of so many experiences that caused deep PTSD. I'd prayed for years to be given the power to forgive those who'd done unspeakable things to me, and when I was Baptized a Mormon, I was fully healed of that hatred. However after I'd been with them for 5 years, their constant harping about worthiness and getting one of their Temple Recommends finally showed me that I would never actually be acceptable to them, Never !!!

As I studied, it became increasingly obvious that they defied the Bible in critical areas. Their Prophet could overrule the very words of the Bible. Something had told me to never disavow Islam, and I didn't. None of this was acceptable and there is more, but I'll spare you.

I am so jealous of those who had good education in belief and parents that did not expose them to abuse and molestation.

I can not understand how the healing I got through the Mormons could have happened, I just can't. Yet by the mercy of a Creator that loves me that healing has stayed with me. The ways of God are not my ways and I try my hardest to please him. The past is why I'm an Abrahamic Religionist, not fully Christian, not a good Muslim and not destined to be a good Jew. I've studied Native American beliefs because I am half Cherokee, so their Animism makes sense to me.

Some of you have tried to put me in a little box because of the depth of your own ignorance, but that is not going to work out. Soon perhaps God will judge me and we'll see if he has loved me as much as I have tried to love him?

Hi follow human.

Here is what I have learned about worth. Some people take their own individual/group worth as given for All humans and then judge everybody else based on their individual worth.
So here is a coping mechanism I have learned to deal with that. Take a word some humans use negatively in regards to worth and notice if that not necessarily in the negative sense apply to you.
Here is it for me and as part of me: I am crazy in some sense. That is bad, right? No, I am crazy and I am proud of it, because I have learned to be me despite being different than some other humans and I have learn not to use their worth to judge myself.
In the most general sense: I am different and I am proud of it and I use the belief that all humans have worth in themselves. That applies to me, you and everybody else.
You are a human and you should stand tall with God, because you try with love. That is all. Peace my follow human and I hope all the best for you. Your worth in the end is with God and not in other humans.

PS In technical terms you are a resilience child. You had a bad childhood and you have coped despite it. Welcome to the club, I am also a resilience child. So with all my love, be proud of yourself.

Ellen Brown said:

Religion has always felt like an uphill trudge where I would never be "worth it". There was life as a Pseudo Baptist, then as a non-denominational Evangelical, all for 30 years. The way that folk ignored the words of Jesus Christ after 9/11 convinced me that "their" Jesus was plastic, not real. I left to search, because belief in God was unshakeable.

Winding up in Islam, that lasted for more than 7 years, but it didn't feel like their view of Jesus Christ was respectful enough, like they gave more credence to Muhammad PBUH than they did Jesus. When pressed though, most would say Jesus is the Best Prophet.

Then I met some Mormon Sister Missionaries, and over the next 2 years was convinced that their version of Jesus Christ was true. They said I would be fully accepted, and I felt healed of so many experiences that caused deep PTSD. I'd prayed for years to be given the power to forgive those who'd done unspeakable things to me, and when I was Baptized a Mormon, I was fully healed of that hatred. However after I'd been with them for 5 years, their constant harping about worthiness and getting one of their Temple Recommends finally showed me that I would never actually be acceptable to them, Never !!!

As I studied, it became increasingly obvious that they defied the Bible in critical areas. Their Prophet could overrule the very words of the Bible. Something had told me to never disavow Islam, and I didn't. None of this was acceptable and there is more, but I'll spare you.

I am so jealous of those who had good education in belief and parents that did not expose them to abuse and molestation.

I can not understand how the healing I got through the Mormons could have happened, I just can't. Yet by the mercy of a Creator that loves me that healing has stayed with me. The ways of God are not my ways and I try my hardest to please him. The past is why I'm an Abrahamic Religionist, not fully Christian, not a good Muslim and not destined to be a good Jew. I've studied Native American beliefs because I am half Cherokee, so their Animism makes sense to me.

Some of you have tried to put me in a little box because of the depth of your own ignorance, but that is not going to work out. Soon perhaps God will judge me and we'll see if he has loved me as much as I have tried to love him?

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King James Bible
For whosoever will save his life shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel's, the same shall save it.

You talk about others and acceptance and all the things you are trying as well as other faiths. You talk a lot about yourself and that is where it appears you have side stepped the true path.

The love of God is a selfless love where we love God and others above ourselves.. Truth and Spirit are the way of God and in Christ you find that truth and Spirit.
1 Corinthians 13 talks about having all the faith and power but without love it is worthless. Surrender yourself to God and allow him to change you and love unconditionally. It is not about us but letting the old self die and becoming a new creation in Gods eyes, loving God and loving others. Jesus is the way, the truth and life, no one can come to God but by him. He tells you to follow him not the world.Hope it helps/

Yes, true belief is a paradox of controversies, and likely not achievable from the human perspective. I prefer the question as to what is the most universal belief from the human perspective. The more universal the perspective of belief the more in touch with with the reality from the physical and spiritual perspective. The more narrow the perspective of belief, particularly ancient beliefs with a narrow cultural and tribal perspective have the least to offer in terms of the perspective of universal belief. Some ancient belief systems like those of the Native Americans have a more universal spiritual perspective than the ancient Abrahamic belief systems.

This leads to why people choose the belief system they do. It is interesting that most people choose a belief system not for the search for 'True Belief, but more pragmatic reasons of the desire for a 'sense of belonging' and a 'sense of self-identity' Once an emotional bond is established a broader sense of the universal is rejected for the narrow tribal cultural identity.

I consider the belief systems of the Baha'i Faith, Unitarian Universalists, and some agnostic world views to be more universal in their beliefs than most ancient belief systems.

Ellen Brown said:

Religion has always felt like an uphill trudge where I would never be "worth it". There was life as a Pseudo Baptist, then as a non-denominational Evangelical, all for 30 years. The way that folk ignored the words of Jesus Christ after 9/11 convinced me that "their" Jesus was plastic, not real. I left to search, because belief in God was unshakeable.

Winding up in Islam, that lasted for more than 7 years, but it didn't feel like their view of Jesus Christ was respectful enough, like they gave more credence to Muhammad PBUH than they did Jesus. When pressed though, most would say Jesus is the Best Prophet.

Then I met some Mormon Sister Missionaries, and over the next 2 years was convinced that their version of Jesus Christ was true. They said I would be fully accepted, and I felt healed of so many experiences that caused deep PTSD. I'd prayed for years to be given the power to forgive those who'd done unspeakable things to me, and when I was Baptized a Mormon, I was fully healed of that hatred. However after I'd been with them for 5 years, their constant harping about worthiness and getting one of their Temple Recommends finally showed me that I would never actually be acceptable to them, Never !!!

As I studied, it became increasingly obvious that they defied the Bible in critical areas. Their Prophet could overrule the very words of the Bible. Something had told me to never disavow Islam, and I didn't. None of this was acceptable and there is more, but I'll spare you.

I am so jealous of those who had good education in belief and parents that did not expose them to abuse and molestation.

I can not understand how the healing I got through the Mormons could have happened, I just can't. Yet by the mercy of a Creator that loves me that healing has stayed with me. The ways of God are not my ways and I try my hardest to please him. The past is why I'm an Abrahamic Religionist, not fully Christian, not a good Muslim and not destined to be a good Jew. I've studied Native American beliefs because I am half Cherokee, so their Animism makes sense to me.

Some of you have tried to put me in a little box because of the depth of your own ignorance, but that is not going to work out. Soon perhaps God will judge me and we'll see if he has loved me as much as I have tried to love him?

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I think you have been focusing on the religiosity of faith rather then on the power and value of faith, itself. It's faith that heals us, not religiosity. All religion can do for us is help us to apply our faith in the Great Mystery. The great mystery source, sustenance, and purpose of all that is, that we generally refer to as "God".

I think you have been both honest and wise in exploring these various religions, and using them to enable your faith to the degree that they were useful. And I also think you have been honest and wise insetting those religions aside when they became constricting of your spirit and your faith.

There is no one big answer, or one right religion. The Great Mystery will remain a mystery, to us. It's not our purpose to 'figure it out', and any religion that tries, or worse yet claim to have done so (as many do), is embodying dishonesty, and hubris. And to embody dishonesty to the point of hubris is to drink spiritual poison.

I am honored by your story of wisdom and courage over the years, and most of all by your pursuit of honesty.

Very touching.. and it explains some of your anger toward Christianity. But don't forget your own admonition about boxes and stereotypes..

I do wish you well, and Godspeed, in your quest for truth and ultimate healing, which are connected.

I hope I'm not one of those who tried to put you in a box - I take Islam as a topic very seriously.

Still, to be honest, while I know very little about other religions, it seems to me like you have quite a few obvious misconceptions about Islam. So it's no wonder your iman isn't so strong, from the Muslim perspective, that is.

You also seem to depend a lot on the people around you. It'd be nice if everyone had a lot of similar minded people of the same faith around them, but maybe it's not realistic.

Just curious, what words of JC were ignored after 9/11, in your opinion?

usfan said:

Very touching.. and it explains some of your anger toward Christianity. But don't forget your own admonition about boxes and stereotypes..

I do wish you well, and Godspeed, in your quest for truth and ultimate healing, which are connected.

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How about your hatred toward science?

Ellen Brown said:

Religion has always felt like an uphill trudge where I would never be "worth it". There was life as a Pseudo Baptist, then as a non-denominational Evangelical, all for 30 years. The way that folk ignored the words of Jesus Christ after 9/11 convinced me that "their" Jesus was plastic, not real. I left to search, because belief in God was unshakeable.

Winding up in Islam, that lasted for more than 7 years, but it didn't feel like their view of Jesus Christ was respectful enough, like they gave more credence to Muhammad PBUH than they did Jesus. When pressed though, most would say Jesus is the Best Prophet.

Then I met some Mormon Sister Missionaries, and over the next 2 years was convinced that their version of Jesus Christ was true. They said I would be fully accepted, and I felt healed of so many experiences that caused deep PTSD. I'd prayed for years to be given the power to forgive those who'd done unspeakable things to me, and when I was Baptized a Mormon, I was fully healed of that hatred. However after I'd been with them for 5 years, their constant harping about worthiness and getting one of their Temple Recommends finally showed me that I would never actually be acceptable to them, Never !!!

As I studied, it became increasingly obvious that they defied the Bible in critical areas. Their Prophet could overrule the very words of the Bible. Something had told me to never disavow Islam, and I didn't. None of this was acceptable and there is more, but I'll spare you.

I am so jealous of those who had good education in belief and parents that did not expose them to abuse and molestation.

I can not understand how the healing I got through the Mormons could have happened, I just can't. Yet by the mercy of a Creator that loves me that healing has stayed with me. The ways of God are not my ways and I try my hardest to please him. The past is why I'm an Abrahamic Religionist, not fully Christian, not a good Muslim and not destined to be a good Jew. I've studied Native American beliefs because I am half Cherokee, so their Animism makes sense to me.

Some of you have tried to put me in a little box because of the depth of your own ignorance, but that is not going to work out. Soon perhaps God will judge me and we'll see if he has loved me as much as I have tried to love him?

Click to expand...

That is why I am spiritual but not religious. Religions always have many faults. I would say, though, that Christianity is not what is taught in any church that I know of. They pull from the Bible anything they wish to express, they overlook or minimize important things, they maximize and dwell on things which are not the most important. They even twist things to their own liking by explaining their own viewpoints of what is stated in the Bible. The problem is that they don't start with what Jesus said was most important. They don't seem to care. And if you don't start there, the rest doesn't come together correctly. There are even tens of thousands of denominations because they don't agree among themselves. Yet, they are supposed to be one body of Christ. What you might want to consider is reading the Bible yourself, not letting others interpret for you. The Bible even says to do this. 2 Timothy 3:16-17 All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be competent, equipped for every good work.

Then, what Jesus said was important is:

Mark 12
28 And one of the scribes came up and heard them disputing with one another, and seeing that he answered them well, asked him, “Which commandment is the most important of all?”
29 Jesus answered, “The most important is, ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.
30 And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’
31 The second is this: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.”
32 And the scribe said to him, “You are right, Teacher. You have truly said that he is one, and there is no other besides him.
33 And to love him with all the heart and with all the understanding and with all the strength, and to love one's neighbor as oneself, is much more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices.”
34 And when Jesus saw that he answered wisely, he said to him, “You are not far from the kingdom of God.” And after that no one dared to ask him any more questions.

This is also good to know:
1 Corinthians 13
1 If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.
2 And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.
3 If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing.

And I would say that your getting over the past with the Mormons was that God came to you where you were to help you because God loves you.

Diana Montgomery said:

That is why I am spiritual but not religious. Religions always have many faults.

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So do people who make the claim of being spiritual and not religious. Your distinction between spiritual and religious is an egocentric contradiction.

I would say, though, that Christianity is not what is taught in any church that I know of. They pull from the Bible anything they wish to express, they overlook or minimize important things, they maximize and dwell on things which are not the most important. They even twist things to their own liking by explaining their own viewpoints of what is stated in the Bible. The problem is that they don't start with what Jesus said was most important. They don't seem to care. And if you don't start there, the rest doesn't come together correctly. There are even tens of thousands of denominations because they don't agree among themselves. Yet, they are supposed to be one body of Christ. What you might want to consider is reading the Bible yourself, not letting others interpret for you. The Bible even says to do this. 2 Timothy 3:16-17 All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be competent, equipped for every good work.

Then, what Jesus said was important is:

Mark 12
28 And one of the scribes came up and heard them disputing with one another, and seeing that he answered them well, asked him, “Which commandment is the most important of all?”
29 Jesus answered, “The most important is, ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.
30 And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’
31 The second is this: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.”
32 And the scribe said to him, “You are right, Teacher. You have truly said that he is one, and there is no other besides him.
33 And to love him with all the heart and with all the understanding and with all the strength, and to love one's neighbor as oneself, is much more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices.”
34 And when Jesus saw that he answered wisely, he said to him, “You are not far from the kingdom of God.” And after that no one dared to ask him any more questions.

This is also good to know:
1 Corinthians 13
1 If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.
2 And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.
3 If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing.

And I would say that your getting over the past with the Mormons was that God came to you where you were to help you because God loves you.

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Judge others you so shall be judged. Your using the words religion and religious as stones to throw at people who believe differently. Yet you are quoting the Bible that is an evolved, edited, redacted and compiled text by many people who consider themselves religious, and/or belong to a religion.

shunyadragon said:

How about your hatred toward science?

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You mean your phony caricatures? I'm a big believer (and practicer!) of scientific methodology.. but you have fun with your demeaning jabs at someone you know nothing about.. ..says a lot more about you, than me..

The more narrow the claim of True belief the more likely it is wrong.

usfan said:

You mean your phony caricatures? I'm a big believer (and practicer!) of scientific methodology.. but you have fun with your demeaning jabs at someone you know nothing about.. ..says a lot more about you, than me..

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. . . but it is your demeaning jabs at science that is the issue, and ah . . . your view toward anyone who disagrees with you.

usfan said:

but you have fun with your demeaning jabs at someone you know nothing about.. ..says a lot more about you, than me..

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shunyadragon said:

. . . but it is your demeaning jabs at science that is the issue, and ah . . . your view toward anyone who disagrees with you.

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Still jabbing, i see. Toss those ad hom grenades all you want.. I'll ignore most of them. What gets your panties in a bunch is when i pull the pins and lob them back!

Wise words, Ellen.

Glad to see you back.

True belief is that which you act upon.

It is written that Abraham's "EMUNAH" was counted to him for righteousness. Emunah means both faith and faithfulness -- the two are inseparable. Abraham trusted God, believed in God, but he also acted on that faith by being willing to sacrifice Isaac.

The first husband tell his wife, "I love you! I love you!" but beats her every Friday when he gets drunk. The second husband is a man of few words, but is faithful, hardworking, kind, helpful, and romantic. Tell me, who loves his wife?

(Tevye)
But my father and my mother
Said we'd learn to love each other
And now I'm asking, Golde
Do you love me?

(Golde)
I'm your wife

(Tevye)
"I know..."
But do you love me?

(Golde)
Do I love him?
For twenty-five years I've lived with him
Fought him, starved with him
Twenty-five years my bed is his
If that's not love, what is?

(Tevye)
Then you love me?

(Golde)
I suppose I do

(Tevye)
And I suppose I love you too

(Both)
It doesn't change a thing
But even so
After twenty-five years
It's nice to know

usfan said:

Still jabbing, i see. Toss those ad hom grenades all you want.. I'll ignore most of them. What gets your panties in a bunch is when i pull the pins and lob them back!

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. . . but it is your demeaning jabs at science that is the issue, and ah . . . your view toward anyone who disagrees with you.

IndigoChild5559 said:

True belief is that which you act upon.

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Therefore, all the conflicting contradictory claims ot True belief are true, because they act upon them.

answering the title directly.....

a true belief is an item you haven proven to yourself

and hopefully you did look upon that item as if to pay a high price for it

a gem stone.....so to speak
looking through every facet

IndigoChild5559 said:

True belief is that which you act upon.

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nay.....
many are deceived
and act as if they understand what they do