Samana Johann
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Householder @siti asked on different occation:
in relation to previous share to the question after raised:
in relation to previous share to the question after raised:
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How can a ordinary person find a Noble teacher, how to gain the stream?
- Thread starter Samana Johann
- Start date
The Reverend Bob
Fart Machine and Beastmaster
So bedpanner Joe, doth mother knoweth thou weareth her drapes?
Samana Johann
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From the selection per-given:
The Buddha offers some preliminary guidance on developing these standards in his instructions to the brahman teenager, Kapadika Bharadvaja.
[Kapadika Bharadvaja:] "To what extent is there an awakening to the truth? To what extent does one awaken to the truth? We ask Master Gotama about awakening to the truth."
[The Buddha:] "There is the case, Bharadvaja, where a monk lives in dependence on a certain village or town. Then a householder or householder's son goes to him and observes him with regard to three mental qualities — qualities based on greed, qualities based on aversion, qualities based on delusion: 'Are there in this venerable one any such qualities based on greed that, with his mind overcome by these qualities, he might say, "I know," while not knowing, or say, "I see," while not seeing; or that he might urge another to act in a way that was for his/her long-term harm & pain?' As he observes him, he comes to know, 'There are in this venerable one no such qualities based on greed... His bodily behavior & verbal behavior are those of one not greedy. And the Dhamma he teaches is deep, hard to see, hard to realize, tranquil, refined, beyond the scope of conjecture, subtle, to-be-experienced by the wise. This Dhamma can't easily be taught by a person who's greedy.
"When, on observing that the monk is purified with regard to qualities based on greed, he next observes him with regard to qualities based on aversion... based on delusion: 'Are there in this venerable one any such qualities based on delusion that, with his mind overcome by these qualities, he might say, "I know," while not knowing, or say, "I see," while not seeing; or that he might urge another to act in a way that was for his/her long-term harm & pain?' As he observes him, he comes to know, 'There are in this venerable one no such qualities based on delusion... His bodily behavior & verbal behavior are those of one not deluded. And the Dhamma he teaches is deep, hard to see, hard to realize, tranquil, refined, beyond the scope of conjecture, subtle, to-be-experienced by the wise. This Dhamma can't easily be taught by a person who's deluded.
"When, on observing that the monk is purified with regard to qualities based on delusion, he places conviction in him. With the arising of conviction, he visits him & grows close to him. Growing close to him, he lends ear. Lending ear, he hears the Dhamma. Hearing the Dhamma, he remembers it. Remembering it, he penetrates the meaning of those dhammas. Penetrating the meaning, he comes to an agreement through pondering those dhammas. There being an agreement through pondering those dhammas, desire arises. With the arising of desire, he becomes willing. Willing, he contemplates [lit: "weighs," "compares"]. Contemplating, he makes an exertion. Exerting himself, he both realizes the ultimate meaning of the truth with his body and sees by penetrating it with discernment.
"To this extent, Bharadvaja, there is an awakening to the truth. To this extent one awakens to the truth. I describe this as an awakening to the truth. But it is not yet the final attainment of the truth."
[Kapadika Bharadvaja:] "Yes, Master Gotama, to this extent there is an awakening to the truth. To this extent one awakens to the truth. We regard this as an awakening to the truth. But to what extent is there the final attainment of the truth? To what extent does one finally attain the truth? We ask Master Gotama about the final attainment of the truth."
[Buddha:] "The cultivation, development, & pursuit of those very same qualities: to this extent, Bharadvaja, there is the final attainment of the truth. To this extent one finally attains the truth. I describe this as the final attainment of the truth."
— MN 95
A very helpful essay how to slowly, by intent, grow toward wise:
The Power of Judgment
And, it's of course not garranted to ever meet, even if right next, yet strong desire and improvement will lead to the necessary condition. Efforts that only very less are willing to sacrifices. I.e.: less to no hope for fools. Now one would ask, why then teach, or why get they Dhamma heard as well? Because of the other kinds of stick people: AN 3.22: Gilana Sutta — Sick People
The Buddha offers some preliminary guidance on developing these standards in his instructions to the brahman teenager, Kapadika Bharadvaja.
[Kapadika Bharadvaja:] "To what extent is there an awakening to the truth? To what extent does one awaken to the truth? We ask Master Gotama about awakening to the truth."
[The Buddha:] "There is the case, Bharadvaja, where a monk lives in dependence on a certain village or town. Then a householder or householder's son goes to him and observes him with regard to three mental qualities — qualities based on greed, qualities based on aversion, qualities based on delusion: 'Are there in this venerable one any such qualities based on greed that, with his mind overcome by these qualities, he might say, "I know," while not knowing, or say, "I see," while not seeing; or that he might urge another to act in a way that was for his/her long-term harm & pain?' As he observes him, he comes to know, 'There are in this venerable one no such qualities based on greed... His bodily behavior & verbal behavior are those of one not greedy. And the Dhamma he teaches is deep, hard to see, hard to realize, tranquil, refined, beyond the scope of conjecture, subtle, to-be-experienced by the wise. This Dhamma can't easily be taught by a person who's greedy.
"When, on observing that the monk is purified with regard to qualities based on greed, he next observes him with regard to qualities based on aversion... based on delusion: 'Are there in this venerable one any such qualities based on delusion that, with his mind overcome by these qualities, he might say, "I know," while not knowing, or say, "I see," while not seeing; or that he might urge another to act in a way that was for his/her long-term harm & pain?' As he observes him, he comes to know, 'There are in this venerable one no such qualities based on delusion... His bodily behavior & verbal behavior are those of one not deluded. And the Dhamma he teaches is deep, hard to see, hard to realize, tranquil, refined, beyond the scope of conjecture, subtle, to-be-experienced by the wise. This Dhamma can't easily be taught by a person who's deluded.
"When, on observing that the monk is purified with regard to qualities based on delusion, he places conviction in him. With the arising of conviction, he visits him & grows close to him. Growing close to him, he lends ear. Lending ear, he hears the Dhamma. Hearing the Dhamma, he remembers it. Remembering it, he penetrates the meaning of those dhammas. Penetrating the meaning, he comes to an agreement through pondering those dhammas. There being an agreement through pondering those dhammas, desire arises. With the arising of desire, he becomes willing. Willing, he contemplates [lit: "weighs," "compares"]. Contemplating, he makes an exertion. Exerting himself, he both realizes the ultimate meaning of the truth with his body and sees by penetrating it with discernment.
"To this extent, Bharadvaja, there is an awakening to the truth. To this extent one awakens to the truth. I describe this as an awakening to the truth. But it is not yet the final attainment of the truth."
[Kapadika Bharadvaja:] "Yes, Master Gotama, to this extent there is an awakening to the truth. To this extent one awakens to the truth. We regard this as an awakening to the truth. But to what extent is there the final attainment of the truth? To what extent does one finally attain the truth? We ask Master Gotama about the final attainment of the truth."
[Buddha:] "The cultivation, development, & pursuit of those very same qualities: to this extent, Bharadvaja, there is the final attainment of the truth. To this extent one finally attains the truth. I describe this as the final attainment of the truth."
— MN 95
The Power of Judgment
And, it's of course not garranted to ever meet, even if right next, yet strong desire and improvement will lead to the necessary condition. Efforts that only very less are willing to sacrifices. I.e.: less to no hope for fools. Now one would ask, why then teach, or why get they Dhamma heard as well? Because of the other kinds of stick people: AN 3.22: Gilana Sutta — Sick People
siti
Well-Known Member
OK - I am not quite following but perhaps I can point to the problem...
In this teaching Cula-punnama Sutta: The Shorter Discourse on the Full-moon Night the Blessed One demonstrates that "there's no way, that a person of no integrity would know of a person of integrity: 'This is a person of integrity'."
In this teaching Into the Stream: A Study Guide on the First Stage of Awakening a young seeker of enlightenment is advised to ask of a Monk:
'Are there in this venerable one any such qualities based on greed that, with his mind overcome by these qualities, he might say, "I know," while not knowing, or say, "I see," while not seeing; or that he might urge another to act in a way that was for his/her long-term harm & pain?'
The question is: how can someone - whom you have already identified as a "worldling" and a person of no integrity - possibly come to know whether the monk is acting on "qualities based on greed" and saying "I know" when he does not know?
Can such a "worldling" learn? How so, when it is, according to the teaching, impossible for him to identify the right teacher?
Your use of "worldling" and "householder" as smug insults shows that you have no actual spiritual insight to share or that you have attained. I've also seen you threatening people with the Buddhist fundie version of hell. Dismissed. *waves you off*
The Reverend Bob
Fart Machine and Beastmaster
In other words..you know a fraud when you see one
siti
Well-Known Member
OK - even more simply put: a quote form the link in the quote states:
"be judicious in choosing the person whose judgments you’re going to take on as your own" - but how can someone who lacks judiciousness be judicious in choosing someone to help him to learn how to be judicious?
Samana Johann
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Householder Siti, and interested,
some good guidlines are already given in the essay "power of judgement", transporting mainly that one needs to learn to have skills like a master step by step by oneself to be able to trace a real. To go back on the Mind-read topic here: one needs to get the own mind known before able to trace greed, aversion, delusion in others. The Buddhas teaching are all to be put into practice to see the evidence of validity for one self.
There are of course many general outwardly appearances on which a person of integrity could be traced. How ever, as the Buddha told a King, it requires long association and being dicerning, that a lay person would be able to trace good monks: Paṭisalla Sutta: Seclusion
It's a great and wise chosen topic, since the only importand outwardly condition to grow toward good and path is association with people of right view, integrity. Mudita
(Risk the lose of association with fools is very needed and stands in no relation, so good if letting go of wishing to appear cool under, and devoted to, not so smart)
Samana Johann
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There are those, householder Siti, who currently actually have no change to grow into Dhamma. How ever, if such a person nevertheless seeks for best association, sticks to basics, even if a "hopeless" fool for now, conditions for the future are layed down. That is for example why children, even just able to walk, would be trained in "rituals", such as Veneration, giving Worthy, Elders, doing Alms toward them. Wether it one time come to a point where they understand those ritual and behavior is another question. No one can "bless" another at least. A good teaching on that is Opening the Door to the Dhamma: Respect in Buddhist Thought & Practice
Such counts of course for all good religions, good ways, even if one is up to wish to learn a real skill of masters.
Samana Johann
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Householder may call my person beggar, homeless, even alian or what ever. Even if he would mean it as insult, it wouldn't be wrong. Possible something to consider when addressed householder or feel touched that there are worldlings and Noble Ones.
As for an insult, if so, it would stay by the doer, if not taking on: Insult.
And it would be not very compassionate to tell one not, more can not be done then telling, that insulting certain people leads straight downward or to poor human states. If even matching a Noble person with such, cut one off from any prosporty for long, long time, many existances, not to speak of ever meeting a good guide. Just out of telling what might be a good protection for householder, yet his choices are nevertheless his.
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Samana Johann
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Maybe good to understand why the Great blessings/procections, are called that way: Maha-mangala Sutta: Blessings and why wise strive after them.
siti
Well-Known Member
How can a "hopeless" fool recognize the "best association"?
Samana Johann
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There will always be "a best" in ones what ever circumstances. Surely, for fools it might be often 1 step forward 2 steps back. Importand that kamma does not work linear and that what ever single choice has its effect. Once seed, soild and water meet each other, great things can blossom even in the most hopless situation. One does not know really the potential of others. Thats again the reason why also obivious fools are touched with teaching on Dhamma.
Maybe useful on that:
Well then, Lord, does not the Blessed One teach Dhamma in full[1] to some, but not so fully to others?"
"I will reply to this question, headman, with another. Answer as seems proper to you. What do you think? Suppose a peasant farmer has three fields, one excellent, one middling, and one poor, sandy, salty, with bad soil. Tell me: when the farmer wants to sow his seed, which field would he sow first: the excellent one, the middling one or the poor one that is sandy, salty and with bad soil?"
"Lord, the farmer who wanted to sow his seed would sow the excellent field first. Having done that, he would sow the middling field next, and the one that was poor, sandy, salty, with bad soil he might or might not sow. Why? Well it might do for cattle-food."
"Well, headman, that excellent field is like my monks and nuns. To them I teach the Dhamma which is lovely in its beginning, lovely in its middle and lovely in its ending, in spirit and in letter,[2] I display to them the holy life, perfectly fulfilled and purified. Why? Because these people adhere to me as their island, their shelter, their resort, their refuge.
"The middling field is like my male and female lay-followers. To these too I teach the Dhamma which is lovely in its beginning, lovely in its middle and lovely in its ending, in spirit and in letter, I display to them the holy life, perfectly fulfilled and purified. Why? Because these people adhere to me as their island, their shelter, their resort, their refuge.
"The poor field that is sandy, salty and with bad soil is like my wandering recluses and Brahmans of other sects.[3] To them I also teach the Dhamma which is lovely in its beginning, lovely in its middle and lovely in its ending, in spirit and in letter, I display to them the holy life, perfectly fulfilled and purified. Why? Because if they only understand a single phrase, it would long be for their profit."
And there are also cases when hard burdens would be taken on:"I will reply to this question, headman, with another. Answer as seems proper to you. What do you think? Suppose a peasant farmer has three fields, one excellent, one middling, and one poor, sandy, salty, with bad soil. Tell me: when the farmer wants to sow his seed, which field would he sow first: the excellent one, the middling one or the poor one that is sandy, salty and with bad soil?"
"Lord, the farmer who wanted to sow his seed would sow the excellent field first. Having done that, he would sow the middling field next, and the one that was poor, sandy, salty, with bad soil he might or might not sow. Why? Well it might do for cattle-food."
"Well, headman, that excellent field is like my monks and nuns. To them I teach the Dhamma which is lovely in its beginning, lovely in its middle and lovely in its ending, in spirit and in letter,[2] I display to them the holy life, perfectly fulfilled and purified. Why? Because these people adhere to me as their island, their shelter, their resort, their refuge.
"The middling field is like my male and female lay-followers. To these too I teach the Dhamma which is lovely in its beginning, lovely in its middle and lovely in its ending, in spirit and in letter, I display to them the holy life, perfectly fulfilled and purified. Why? Because these people adhere to me as their island, their shelter, their resort, their refuge.
"The poor field that is sandy, salty and with bad soil is like my wandering recluses and Brahmans of other sects.[3] To them I also teach the Dhamma which is lovely in its beginning, lovely in its middle and lovely in its ending, in spirit and in letter, I display to them the holy life, perfectly fulfilled and purified. Why? Because if they only understand a single phrase, it would long be for their profit."
The right time to teach- MN 103
The Fourth Case:
The Fourth Case:
- If there will be grief and aggravation for myself;
- And there will be grief and aggravation for the other;
- Because the other is by nature angry, temperamental, touchy and resentful of instruction;
- And is slow witted and hard to convince;
- But I have the skill to raise him from a low path to a high one;
- It is proper to speak, because my aggravation and his aggravation is a small thing compared to the importance of him being brought from a low path to a high one.
siti
Well-Known Member
Dear @Samana Johann - lots of information - but it still only explains how and why the "best association" is there - not how an unskilled person can recognize it.
The emphasis all seems to be on the "skill" of the teacher...but the most skillful teacher knows his first responsibility is to learn - always...the student does not know where to look - the teacher must learn the students "unknowing" before he can even attempt to teach. Otherwise he is simply broadcasting his seed anyhow and anywhere and doesn't have any idea where or even if any of it is going to germinate and thrive. Where is the "skill" in that?
There is really no such thing as "poor soil" - there are soils that are in need of particular kinds of enrichment and treatment before they can become productive - but a skillful farmer would not wait for the field to become productive by itself - or waste his seed in the vain hope that a few plants might sprout in his dry, sandy soil - he would test it first and find out what is lacking - then apply the appropriate treatment - and only then sow his seed. A good farmer learns from his fields before sowing so that he can sow productively. He most certainly does not expect a good field to come to him by itself. A good teacher learns from his student before teaching them anything.
And if a student is bombastic or disrespectful, you just gotta deal with that - given the right treatment, the harshest desert can be "greened" - but not by merely showering it with seeds.
The emphasis all seems to be on the "skill" of the teacher...but the most skillful teacher knows his first responsibility is to learn - always...the student does not know where to look - the teacher must learn the students "unknowing" before he can even attempt to teach. Otherwise he is simply broadcasting his seed anyhow and anywhere and doesn't have any idea where or even if any of it is going to germinate and thrive. Where is the "skill" in that?
There is really no such thing as "poor soil" - there are soils that are in need of particular kinds of enrichment and treatment before they can become productive - but a skillful farmer would not wait for the field to become productive by itself - or waste his seed in the vain hope that a few plants might sprout in his dry, sandy soil - he would test it first and find out what is lacking - then apply the appropriate treatment - and only then sow his seed. A good farmer learns from his fields before sowing so that he can sow productively. He most certainly does not expect a good field to come to him by itself. A good teacher learns from his student before teaching them anything.
And if a student is bombastic or disrespectful, you just gotta deal with that - given the right treatment, the harshest desert can be "greened" - but not by merely showering it with seeds.
siti
Well-Known Member
In Cambodia, I believe, you have the putrea tree - we call it ber tree (Indian name) in Fiji. On our farm, it grows vigorously as a shrubby weed as well as a bigger tree when it is allowed to grow...and when we want to plant a new field, we have to clear these first. They are tough and thorny and our hands and legs get badly scratched and pierced with the thorns in the process. But we cannot expect the field to rid itself of thorns...and even after clearing and planting, there is a good chance that at least a few thorny stems will continue to re-emerge from time to time...with patience and perseverance, the field gradually becomes productive...but only if the farmer has learned from his field first.
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Samana Johann
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He must not, he knows.
That was already mentioned under "Sick people" and it's not so that often, when teaching a hopless fool, that a teacher does not do it because he perceives others around, not direct involved, to be able gain from it. Often the case when merely public. There are, right now, not only householder and my person present. Often it's also easier to take if no feeling of being adressed arises. How ever, there is no reason to abound someone desiring to learn as long as he does his duties.
No. Again, nobody at least can heal another. A teacher just points out the way.
The sample of fields has been quoted above, yes. One general missconception here traced is, that a wise has no duty to teach at all. The lineage of Noble Ones is not a trading one. A certain duty for one arises only in a formal student-teacher relation. Such actually does not exist between a lay person and a monk, for example. They stay independend, free to act pure on compassion and generousity. So while the Buddha gives many advices how and where and what to teach to his monks, they have no duty at all to do such. Not even fellows. Something desire to be students need to be aware of.
Again, he knows them, and most is up to their choices. Taken the Buddha here, short before death. Ven. Ananda asked him to extend his lifetime to teach further. The Buddha had to remark that he had enough occations where he was up to ask for that. Having overseen them, its his fault.
There is a Sutta, maybe explaining how a good monk approaches householder and teaches the Dhamma: SN 16.3: Candūpama Sutta — Comparable to the Moon
My person had once answered: [Q&A] Proper way to ask a teacher to become their student
There is not much to worry about a perso who is clear that the admirable friend, good teacher, is the whole spiritual life and it's just a matter of patient till meeting. Once a wise has traced such a person, he would go half the way toward him. The elders in traditional countries say, that when ever having traced a worthy one, stick with him, even he casts you off.
Some general duties for protection (also much in regard of good friends in this sutta)
"In five ways, young householder, a pupil should minister to a teacher as the South:
(i) by rising from the seat in salutation,
(ii) by attending on him,
(iii) by eagerness to learn,
(iv) by personal service,
(v) by respectful attention while receiving instructions.
"In five ways, young householder, do teachers thus ministered to as the South by their pupils, show their compassion:
(i) they train them in the best discipline,
(ii) they see that they grasp their lessons well,
(iii) they instruct them in the arts and sciences,
(iv) they introduce them to their friends and associates,
(v) they provide for their safety in every quarter.
"The teachers thus ministered to as the South by their pupils, show their compassion towards them in these five ways. Thus is the South covered by them and made safe and secure.
"In five ways, young householder, should a householder minister to ascetics and brahmans as the Zenith:
(i) by lovable deeds,
(ii) by lovable words,
(iii) by lovable thoughts,
(iv) by keeping open house to them,
(v) by supplying their material needs.
"The ascetics and brahmans thus ministered to as the Zenith by a householder show their compassion towards him in six ways:
(i) they restrain him from evil,
(ii) they persuade him to do good,
(iii) they love him with a kind heart,
(iv) they make him hear what he has not heard,
(v) they clarify what he has already heard,
(vi) they point out the path to a heavenly state.
It's good to investigate this topic, and this board is only on that: Admirable friend [kalyāṇamitta](i) by rising from the seat in salutation,
(ii) by attending on him,
(iii) by eagerness to learn,
(iv) by personal service,
(v) by respectful attention while receiving instructions.
"In five ways, young householder, do teachers thus ministered to as the South by their pupils, show their compassion:
(i) they train them in the best discipline,
(ii) they see that they grasp their lessons well,
(iii) they instruct them in the arts and sciences,
(iv) they introduce them to their friends and associates,
(v) they provide for their safety in every quarter.
"The teachers thus ministered to as the South by their pupils, show their compassion towards them in these five ways. Thus is the South covered by them and made safe and secure.
"In five ways, young householder, should a householder minister to ascetics and brahmans as the Zenith:
(i) by lovable deeds,
(ii) by lovable words,
(iii) by lovable thoughts,
(iv) by keeping open house to them,
(v) by supplying their material needs.
"The ascetics and brahmans thus ministered to as the Zenith by a householder show their compassion towards him in six ways:
(i) they restrain him from evil,
(ii) they persuade him to do good,
(iii) they love him with a kind heart,
(iv) they make him hear what he has not heard,
(v) they clarify what he has already heard,
(vi) they point out the path to a heavenly state.
That all goes much against the way "modern/western" people are taught and totally against a consumer attitude, so hardly westerns/modern ever really meet wise, even if next.
Much, all of that. Again, nothing to worry for one with Saddha. Once one has gone for Refuge by heart, the Sangha is always near, as the Devas who open doors. A virtuous person with Refuge can nno more fall away.
It must be late now, for householder, for today, if right and he has not gone to bed yet.
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siti
Well-Known Member
I know - but you ARE teaching - and a teacher has a responsibility to learn...that is what I am suggesting. I am assuming the role of student...that is why I have asked many questions...maybe not following the ritual obligations of a student...but then I am not a "young householder".
Not so late but I do have to set this aside for now - hospital visiting is next and then a long (3.5 hours) drive (maybe tonight, maybe very early tomorrow morning) to our farm.
I will leave you with one last thought (of mine) - the very best teacher might be the one who knows how very much he has yet to learn - how can the spirit of investigation be kindled in the student if it has gone out in the teacher because he already "knows"?
Samana Johann
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Of course one has a lot of responsibility when teaching others, or say, if there are even such who would listen. Such, how ever, counts for everyone if praising or blaming something.
Maybe again here, this lineage headed to liberation, does not walk the way to become teacher, or to make even a livelyhood out of it. It's a side effect. If one has tendecy and the merits, one may teach. So the sample of the fiedls is really just a sample. No real desire or need to gain anything for whom ever, from taught. Just for their possibility to gain liberation for themselves.
Householder @siti acted without any place for critic and he does that for his own welfare. He might be not aware for now, of the huge merits done by listening eager to the Buddhas teachings. But he will know that soon.
This answer is probably best traced when reading the duties of teacher and disciple in a monastic relationship:
- Mv I 18: Ācariyavattakathā — The Discussion of Duties Toward a Teacher [Alt.: 'line by line']{CS: Mv I 18 , vin.mv.01.18; PTS: Mv I 31} [Ven. Khematto].
... - Mv I 19: Antevāsikavattakathā — The Discussion of Duties Toward a Pupil [Alt.: 'line by line']{CS: Mv I 19 , vin.mv.01.19; PTS: Mv I 33} [Ven. Khematto].
...
A foolish "teacher" who is not very observend if the student has something to tell (and, no worry, no reactions on that, since householder tried to give that message nearly right from beginning, has not been overseen and not appreciated in its effort, or not reflectedreflected)
In regard of lay people, of course, it's all without much formal duties, but even here, this Sutta might explain:
Just as a large banyan tree, on level ground where four roads meet, is a haven for the birds all around, even so a lay person of conviction is a haven for many people: monks, nuns, male lay followers, & female lay followers."
Another describes "as a father wishes for a good son... so wishing for good followers", since an wise "enemy" is better then to have foolish friends.
A good monk stays always open "May those more advanced arrive and teach". At the end here a story on account of a "blind teacher"
Potthila was a senior bhikkhu who knew the Pitaka well and was actually teaching the Dhamma to five hundred bhikkhus. Because he knew the Pitaka, he was also very conceited. The Buddha knew his weakness and wanted him to mend his ways and put him on the right path. So, whenever Potthila came to pay obeisance, the Buddha would address him as 'Useless Potthila'. When Potthila heard these remarks, he pondered over those words of the Buddha and came to realize that the Buddha had made those unkind remarks because he, Potthila, had not made any serious effort to practise meditation and had not achieved any of the Maggas or even any level of mental absorption (jhana).
Thus, without telling anyone Thera Potthila left for a monastery at a place twenty yojanas away from the Jetavana monastery. At that monastery there were thirty bhikkhus. First, he went to the most senior bhikkhu and humbly requested him to be his mentor; but the thera, wishing to humble him, asked him to go to the next senior bhikkhu, who in his turn sent him on to the next. In this way, he was sent from one to the other until he came to a seven year old arahat samanera. The young samanera accepted him as a pupil only after ascertaining that Potthila would obediently follow his instructions. As instructed by the samanera, Thera Potthila kept his mind firmly fixed on the true nature of the body; he was very ardent and vigilant in his meditation.
The Buddha saw Potthila in his vision and through supernormal power made Potthila feel his presence and encouraged him to be steadfast and ardent.
Then the Buddha spoke in verse as follows:
Verse 282 Indeed, wisdom is born of (meditation) taking on the whole task [yoga]; without meditation wisdom is lost. Knowing this twofold path of gain and loss of wisdom, one should conduct oneself so that wisdom may increase.
At the end of the discourse Potthila attained arahatship.
Thus, without telling anyone Thera Potthila left for a monastery at a place twenty yojanas away from the Jetavana monastery. At that monastery there were thirty bhikkhus. First, he went to the most senior bhikkhu and humbly requested him to be his mentor; but the thera, wishing to humble him, asked him to go to the next senior bhikkhu, who in his turn sent him on to the next. In this way, he was sent from one to the other until he came to a seven year old arahat samanera. The young samanera accepted him as a pupil only after ascertaining that Potthila would obediently follow his instructions. As instructed by the samanera, Thera Potthila kept his mind firmly fixed on the true nature of the body; he was very ardent and vigilant in his meditation.
The Buddha saw Potthila in his vision and through supernormal power made Potthila feel his presence and encouraged him to be steadfast and ardent.
Then the Buddha spoke in verse as follows:
Verse 282 Indeed, wisdom is born of (meditation) taking on the whole task [yoga]; without meditation wisdom is lost. Knowing this twofold path of gain and loss of wisdom, one should conduct oneself so that wisdom may increase.
At the end of the discourse Potthila attained arahatship.