To impose or not impose: Ideas, Faith or Prophet?

siti said:

The rule should perhaps be "don't be imposed upon" rather than "don't impose"?

The onus is on the hearer not the speaker...as long as the words are not actually offensive - like directly calling someone 'stupid' or 'bigot' or whatever. Not sure if I haven't gone too far now - I was trying to tread carefully...anyway, there it is - that's what I think. Of course I could be dead wrong...it has happened before.

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I go with other "rules":
Only speak if it it improves the Silence (*)
Only speak if your words don't harm the other (*)

* As in not to actively hurt the other; esp. ignoring the STOP signal of the other "please don't belittle me or my Faith (or other's Faith)"

As long as I am not "dead sure" about God, Bible and Jesus, I rather don't impose them on others as being "The Truth"; always adding IMHO

stvdv said:

Good point. IMO a good way is to "avoid the people who give you a bad feeling". In this way they can't practice "giving you a bad feeling". Win .. win.
(The saying "Deeds speak louder than words" works here in our favor. "No Contact" is said to be the "Best Contact" when dealing with narcissists)
(To be complete: sometimes of course this won't work ... in our system the judge has to speak out "the verdict"; whether bandits like it or not)

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I think I need some help?I am not a Christian,My beliefs are new age,I just like explaining to people some of the things it en tells and if they don't agree nicely I will explain and let them know its fine if you don't agree,but don't tell me its stupid or sinning or that' is God's order and then start reading scriptures after scriptures to prove they are right!!and I'm,that's when my challenge begins of to stop.or show them where they are wrong and telling them from proof that what i'm saying.am I now imposing.

Diamond said:

I think I need some help?I am not a Christian,My beliefs are new age,I just like explaining to people some of the things it en tells and if they don't agree nicely I will explain and let them know its fine if you don't agree,but don't tell me its stupid or sinning or that' is God's order and then start reading scriptures after scriptures to prove they are right!!and I'm,that's when my challenge begins of to stop.or show them where they are wrong and telling them from proof that what i'm saying.am I now imposing.

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1) I think I need some help?I am not a Christian,My beliefs are new age,I just like explaining to people some of the things it
You seem a nice woman to me, and it is totally fine if you share your belief (new age) ... sharing is what I also do on RF

2) and if they don't agree nicely I will explain and let them know its fine if you don't agree,but don't tell me its stupid or sinning or that' is God's order
Very good you tell them that. If I were God I would bless you to "bite their head of" even. Maybe better to "report them violating RF rule #8"

3) start reading scriptures after scriptures to prove they are right and I'm,
I have observed that some people have this habit. Personally I prefer to read people their own experiences, not Bible verses. Maybe people who share Bible verses, don't have own experiences to share. And they enjoy sharing Bible verses. Now I think about it, that on itself is okay, if they share Bible verses. If they share Bible verses to prove me wrong I normally tell them "Isn't there this Bible verse that tells us not to judge others and another one telling us about a little piece of wood in the other's eye, but a big piece of wood in our own eyes". sometimes they get the hint.

4) that's when my challenge begins of to stop.or show them where they are wrong and telling them from proof that what i'm saying
Yes indeed a challenge here on RF. I learn a lot from all this. Once I met a Teacher who told us:
a) To defend yourself is a sign of weakness. If you are right, why should you defend yourself, after all you are right already.
b) If you are wrong then you can thank the other for pointing out your mistake, so that you won't make the same mistake again

5) am I now imposing?
My point in this thread is more like: "To impose or Not" as in:
1) "Fear feelings" using Hell-threats
2) "Guilt feelings" using as in emotional blackmail
3) "Inferior feelings" as in putting people down by belittling them

I googled and found "impose" explained in a way, that I had in mind; creating "negative feelings". Hope that clarifies what I meant

What does it mean to impose on someone?
1): take advantage of someone by demanding their attention or commitment
2): to establish as something to be obeyed or complied with
3): to force (oneself, one's presence, etc) on another or others; obtrude.
4): to take advantage, as of a person or quality to impose on someone's kindness.

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You are asking: if I defend myself when someone verbally assaults me, is that called "imposing"
I studied quite a few month narcissism on a forum about narcissistic abuse.
1 issue came up with most of the victims: Self doubt, some (I also) contemplated "It looks that I also have narcissistic characteristics"
After doing lots of introspection I got more Self confidence and knew "the one starting the attack does the wrong; not the one being attacked"
1 Characteristic of Narcissists is the use of "Gaslighting". Very strong tool they use to make the victim doubt him/herself.

Gaslighting is a form of psychological manipulation in which a person seeks to sow seeds of doubt in a targeted individual or in members of a targeted group, making them question their own memory, perception, and sanity

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Once I understood the "Gaslighting" principle, I understood why the Narcissist tries to twist the facts around and make you believe you are wrong

Long answer short (imposing, in our context, always comes from the aggressor):
1) If someone emotional manipulates/blackmails you then I call this "imposing" in a very negative way
2) If you, as a reaction, defend yourself then I call this "your right to defend yourself". Nothing to do with imposing

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If you tell a narcissist "You impose on me, stop this. I don't like it"
The narcissist will almost always reply:"Oh, now you impose on me. You are so mean, you hurt me now ... etc"
You see, they twist it around and hurl it back at you. They are "born" liars and don't see reality anymore

stvdv said:

1) I think I need some help?I am not a Christian,My beliefs are new age,I just like explaining to people some of the things it
You seem a nice woman to me, and it is totally fine if you share your belief (new age) ... sharing is what I also do on RF

2) and if they don't agree nicely I will explain and let them know its fine if you don't agree,but don't tell me its stupid or sinning or that' is God's order
Very good you tell them that. If I were God I would bless you to "bite their head of" even. Maybe better to "report them violating RF rule #8"

Spoiler: RF Rule #8 you might enjoy (solves your problems in a sigh)

RF Rules
8. Preaching/Proselytizing
Creating (or linking to) content intended to convert/recruit others to your religion, spirituality, sect/denomination, or lack thereof is not permitted. Similarly, attempting to convert others away from their religion, spiritual convictions, or sect/denomination will also be considered a form of preaching. Stating opinions as a definitive matter of fact (i.e., without "I believe/feel/think" language, and/or without references) may be moderated as preaching.

3) start reading scriptures after scriptures to prove they are right and I'm,
I have observed that some people have this habit. Personally I prefer to read people their own experiences, not Bible verses. Maybe people who share Bible verses, don't have own experiences to share. And they enjoy sharing Bible verses. Now I think about it, that on itself is okay, if they share Bible verses. If they share Bible verses to prove me wrong I normally tell them "Isn't there this Bible verse that tells us not to judge others and another one telling us about a little piece of wood in the other's eye, but a big piece of wood in our own eyes". sometimes they get the hint.

4) that's when my challenge begins of to stop.or show them where they are wrong and telling them from proof that what i'm saying
Yes indeed a challenge here on RF. I learn a lot from all this. Once I met a Teacher who told us:
a) To defend yourself is a sign of weakness. If you are right, why should you defend yourself, after all you are right already.
b) If you are wrong then you can thank the other for pointing out your mistake, so that you won't make the same mistake again

5) am I now imposing?
My point in this thread is more like: "To impose or Not" as in:
1) "Fear feelings" using Hell-threats
2) "Guilt feelings" using as in emotional blackmail
3) "Inferior feelings" as in putting people down by belittling them

I googled and found "impose" explained in a way, that I had in mind; creating "negative feelings". Hope that clarifies what I meant


You are asking: if I defend myself when someone verbally assaults me, is that called "imposing"
I studied quite a few month narcissism on a forum about narcissistic abuse.
1 issue came up with most of the victims: Self doubt, some (I also) contemplated "It looks that I also have narcissistic characteristics"
After doing lots of introspection I got more Self confidence and knew "the one starting the attack does the wrong; not the one being attacked"
1 Characteristic of Narcissists is the use of "Gaslighting". Very strong tool they use to make the victim doubt him/herself.


Once I understood the "Gaslighting" principle, I understood why the Narcissist tries to twist the facts around and make you believe you are wrong



If you tell a narcissist "You impose on me, stop this. I don't like it"
The narcissist will almost always reply:"Oh, now you impose on me. You are so mean, you hurt me now ... etc"
You see, they twist it around and hurl it back at you. They are "born" liars and don't see reality anymore

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Thank you so much I did learn a lot, I have to apply it cause I am fine till tell say something mean or sarcastic,or try to make me look stupid or dumb like I can't understand anything, then the big one the scriptures to prove their point and I Don't believe in scriptures cause I haven't a clue who really wrote those words in that book, so it really turns my stomach,and I go on my spill of how I feel about the bible.I feel I'm sweet, I gotta love in this heart for everyone,but yep I am a aries true to the word, I am FIERY.So, I will try to keep a bottle of water near and each time my throat starts burning cause someone as gone and got me started!! I'll take a bid gulp and calm my little happy self down.Thanks again.

stvdv said:

it sounds weird to say "taking of offense" is more of a choice.

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Perhaps - but in regard to the rest of your post, I believe I did qualify my remarks as being about discussions and that some remarks are actually offensive...so when I said 'taking of offense', I meant in the course of a discussion in which someone appears to be belittling or disrespecting one's beliefs...

It is pretty obvious that rape is offensive - there is no question about that - but if I simply suggest that your worldview seems not to be based on rational thinking - is that actually offensive? I don't think so and someone making such a remark about my beliefs may or may not be taken as offensive by me - that is a choice - my choice. I would often have no idea whether the person making that remark meant offense or not - I can't judge his motives - I can only moderate my response - and if I am wise, I will choose not to take offense, but take stock - is there something I can learn from it? That's what I meant.

stvdv said:

I go with other "rules":
Only speak if it it improves the Silence (*)
Only speak if your words don't harm the other (*)

* As in not to actively hurt the other; esp. ignoring the STOP signal of the other "please don't belittle me or my Faith (or other's Faith)"

As long as I am not "dead sure" about God, Bible and Jesus, I rather don't impose them on others as being "The Truth"; always adding IMHO

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That's all very nice. But sometimes in life one has to be cruel to be kind...like a surgeon amputating a diseased limb to save the life...and in any case, whilst I have plenty of Os most of MOs are not terribly H...and frankly neither are most people's - I understand what you mean - but even when one humbly acknowledges that a comment is "only" their opinion they still think their opinion is the correct one - otherwise they'd change it. And how can anything about God be anything other than an opinion? Writing IMHO in a discussion about religion is usually either superfluous (because it is a humble opinion) or disingenuous (because it isn't) - or even both (because it is neither humble nor held or presented by the writer as an opinion but as a fact) - IMHO. (see!)

siti said:

And how can anything about God be anything other than an opinion?

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Exactly. That was my point all along. And only that. Many religious people confuse opinion with fact. "Jesus IS the only way for ALL" proves this. I was only talking about belittling in such context.

siti said:

I understand what you mean - but even when one humbly acknowledges that a comment is "only" their opinion they still think their opinion is the correct one - otherwise they'd change it.

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I agree with the "correct one" part, not when said "only correct one for all" (only talking about "chosen path" here).

stvdv said:

Many Christians belittle non-Christians by telling "Christianity is the superior religion" (implying non-Christianity is inferior).
Maybe I am wrong, and it's not many Christians behaving like this. The poll might remove unclarities on this matter.
Maybe it's not just Christians who belittle others' religion/views, hence I use: Ideas, Faith and prophet in the poll.

For some, imposing Religion seems natural, for others a sin. Some even naturally impose a sin on others.
Techniques used while imposing: a)belittle + b)emotional blackmail (as seen in evangelizing)

2 Questions came up (when reading "impose": keep in mind the above lines):
1) To impose or not impose?
2) Is it proper to impose your Ideas, Faith or Prophet?
Impose is defined:
a) force (an unwelcome decision or ruling) on someone.
b) take advantage of someone by demanding their attention or commitment

Edit: "not done" in the poll meaning "it's `not proper` to do" (just to keep the line short in the poll)
(someone remarked that he could not answer, because "not done" means to him "it is not done by others")

Spoiler: Remarks on the poll

The poll is not on semantics, more on "how you feel about this".
(So please don't start debating, whether or not I misplaced a "dot" ... the issue should be clear)

Many Christians have told me "Jesus is the only way for all".
Many Christians have told me "If you don't accept Jesus, then you go to Hell".
I replaced "Jesus" by "Prophet" and added "Ideas" (to include Atheism, Humanism, Other Faiths, or even Hell)

Trying to shorten the Question (focus on impose as used in evangelizing: belittle + emotional blackmail):
Question = Is it proper to impose: Ideas, Faith or Prophet? (impose as seen in evangelizing as "belittle+emotional blackmail")

Spoiler: My personal view on this

Personally I do not believe "my way" is the only way, nor do I know "for a fact" that my way is the right way. It's about (non)belief, meaning, IMHO, "not a fact", just a belief. So, according to me, all get the "benefit of the doubt", and their way can be a right way. All humans are equal, and most humans are quite well capable to choose for themselves, or to ask if they need. If the Theist wants to impose on the other (s)he might better ask "Is it okay if I impose my truth on you?". Then if the other agrees, go for it. Ask first, then listen, next act accordingly. If the question sounds "funny" maybe that is an indication not to impose

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It’s in or has been in all of our coding to be control-freaks to varying degrees. Impositions to varying degrees towards others. Guilt trips, gaslighting, having a condescending attitude, fear, plenty of tactics used. Neediness to win or be right. Neediness to appease others and seek approval from like-minds. Many aren’t aware of what they’re doing though. I’d have to say that many in their current perception mean well and express in different ways. In the coding to need company and find comfort in others aligning with beliefs, thoughts, etc. Misery loves company as well. If someone were a particular way, that someone will be more inclined to seek out others of that particular way. If something works for that someone, that someone may be inclined to think that’s the only way it can work for others.

I don’t see anything wrong with sharing beliefs, ideas, thoughts, reasoning, arguing, etc. in moderation. However, some are very hyper-emotional when it comes to the potential influence that may have on others.

Anyone I’d want to be surrounded with personally would be peaceable, and unable to be offended by words. Wholesome character. Where we could talk and speak and think and laugh at ourselves freely about the craziest of things and ideas without the other doing most of the said above. Which would be a very very very very small inner circle .

Road Less Traveled said:

Anyone I’d want to be surrounded with personally would be ... Wholesome character .... Which would be a very very very very small inner circle

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Yes ... a very very very very small inner circle ... 1 wholesome character is enough for me

I find it appropriate for people to share as much as others wish to hear but inappropriate to force their views on other people. Christians are told to only give others a word.

1 Peter 3:15 But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect,

stvdv said:

Many Christians belittle non-Christians by telling "Christianity is the superior religion" (implying non-Christianity is inferior).
Maybe I am wrong, and it's not many Christians behaving like this. The poll might remove unclarities on this matter.
Maybe it's not just Christians who belittle others' religion/views, hence I use: Ideas, Faith and prophet in the poll.

For some, imposing Religion seems natural, for others a sin. Some even naturally impose a sin on others.
Techniques used while imposing: a)belittle + b)emotional blackmail (as seen in evangelizing)

2 Questions came up (when reading "impose": keep in mind the above lines):
1) To impose or not impose?
2) Is it proper to impose your Ideas, Faith or Prophet?
Impose is defined:
a) force (an unwelcome decision or ruling) on someone.
b) take advantage of someone by demanding their attention or commitment

Edit: "not done" in the poll meaning "it's `not proper` to do" (just to keep the line short in the poll)
(someone remarked that he could not answer, because "not done" means to him "it is not done by others")

Spoiler: Remarks on the poll

The poll is not on semantics, more on "how you feel about this".
(So please don't start debating, whether or not I misplaced a "dot" ... the issue should be clear)

Many Christians have told me "Jesus is the only way for all".
Many Christians have told me "If you don't accept Jesus, then you go to Hell".
I replaced "Jesus" by "Prophet" and added "Ideas" (to include Atheism, Humanism, Other Faiths, or even Hell)

Trying to shorten the Question (focus on impose as used in evangelizing: belittle + emotional blackmail):
Question = Is it proper to impose: Ideas, Faith or Prophet? (impose as seen in evangelizing as "belittle+emotional blackmail")

Spoiler: My personal view on this

Personally I do not believe "my way" is the only way, nor do I know "for a fact" that my way is the right way. It's about (non)belief, meaning, IMHO, "not a fact", just a belief. So, according to me, all get the "benefit of the doubt", and their way can be a right way. All humans are equal, and most humans are quite well capable to choose for themselves, or to ask if they need. If the Theist wants to impose on the other (s)he might better ask "Is it okay if I impose my truth on you?". Then if the other agrees, go for it. Ask first, then listen, next act accordingly. If the question sounds "funny" maybe that is an indication not to impose

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With regard to religious views, it is never proper to impose one's religious views on another unless asked. However, this practice is not restricted to Christians, as you imply.

Diana Montgomery said:

I find it appropriate for people to share as much as others wish to hear but inappropriate to force their views on other people. Christians are told to only give others a word.

1 Peter 3:15 But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect,

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Thanks for sharing this verse. I "knew" inposing was "not done" according to the Bible, but did not know this very clear verse. Seems I am not the only one who misses out on verses.

I remember the Bible story telling us something like "if people are not interested then turn around and leave, wipe the dust from your sandels and don't return".

This made it clear to me already, but was a bit indirect. Yours is a nice addition telling us to be respectful and only if asked and say it gentle; I do like that word in this context.

Double nice to hear this from a Christian. Does not happen a lot that Christians agree with me on this. So thanks again.

Milton Platt said:

With regard to religious views, it is never proper to impose one's religious views on another unless asked. However, this practice is not restricted to Christians, as you imply.

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Thanks, your clear, short and honest view on this covers it all. "Unless asked" if practised, might take out 99% of evangelism and other imposing.