• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

This doesn't sit well with me...

nutshell

Well-Known Member
lilithu said:
You don't have facts. You have what is now a third hand account.

I just love btw how you and ciscokid say 'bleeding heart' as if it were an insult. As if compassion is something to be ashamed of.

I basing my comments on the facts I have available. If someone would like to update the facts go ahead and then I'll update my opinion.

"Bleeding heart" is an insult. Cisokid and I recognize the difference between compasson and a bleeding heart. Are you implying we're without compassion? How about the compassion we have for those who may be hurt or put in danger or even killed because of sissy's cowardice?
 

Booko

Deviled Hen
nutshell said:
You make a lot of assumptions about me in your post. Please refrain from doing that in the future.

Hogwash. I made no assumption about you except the one I specifically list below.

The people who are weakening our armed services the most are the chumps in charge.

They've slashed the budgets for Vet's hospitals, don't get the equipment our guys need, have their little backdoor draft going on, and think that calling 60-year olds back into active service is somehow sensible.

And Nutshell, it's very easy for you to crow about "we" should do "our" best, even if it's not a valid conflict. "You" are not involved.

And all I can remember is all the friends and neighbors who came back from 'Nam in a box...all for nothing.

I really fail to see how blindly following our leaders and acting like it's ok that our guys get killed to support Daddy Warbucks is "supporting our troops."

Sorry, I'd better sign off for now...I just got the most intense feeling of <<deja vu>>.

I can't imagine why.

The only reference to *you* was in whether *you* were involved.

Are you doing combat duty in Iraq? I thought you were in the states. Was I mistaken? If I am, then my assumption was indeed unwarranted.

For one thing, I don't blindly follow our leaders. I have a lot of issues with the current war. However, we were talking about one sissy who has committed a crime and the bleeding hearts who want to protect him weaken our army. Budget cuts and lack of equipment are seperate issues (and yes, they're valid too).

You should have a close look at your own assumptions before you complain about the ones I don't have.

If you write a post that says:

Whether we are in a valid conflict or not, we should give out best!

...in the presence of anyone who lived during Vietnam, then you had better be prepared to deal with what comes of writing something like that.

I heard what you said from our leaders for years. I thought it was unconscionable then, and I still do.

Your mileage may vary.
 

Booko

Deviled Hen
nutshell said:
I basing my comments on the facts I have available. If someone would like to update the facts go ahead and then I'll update my opinion.
Maybe facts:

1. Guy ditches driving test intentionally
2. Guy otherwise does combat duty driving around Iraq (maybe, maybe not)
3. Guy has family to support back home

Is it deceitful? Hm, looks like it. Is it especially brave? No. Does it mean some other schmo will take the place that chance would've left to him? Possibly, and not nice if so.

And it's also quite possible that Guy decides being there for his family is higher priority than dying for some other fool's unjust war that has nothing to do with protecting this country.

Men in 'Nam did this sort of thing with some frequency.

Even combat vets would avoid stupid things that would get them killed unnecessarily.

And for Heaven's sake, did anyone here think "frag" is a term that comes from videogames? It comes from 'Nam. That anyone would shoot their own officer to prevent the rest of the group from getting killed just goes to show how crazy and stupid the whole thing was.

You should sit around a table for days and play more wargames with these guys. It's worth it just for the living history.

And since, unlike all of them, I've never been in combat in an unjust war, or even a just one, I'm hardly in a position to provide kneejerk condemnation just because someone else has their knickers in a twist over it.

Let the Army handle its own.

"Bleeding heart" is an insult. Cisokid and I recognize the difference between compasson and a bleeding heart. Are you implying we're without compassion? How about the compassion we have for those who may be hurt or put in danger or even killed because of sissy's cowardice?

I can see exactly one (1) person who may be put in danger or killed because of this person's actions. That is the person who will be driving the humvee instead of him. Assuming they would have gone through with actually assigning him that duty had he passed, which considering the way the Army works, is not a sure thing.

Where are all those people who are going to die or be in danger because he flunked a driving test?
 

lilithu

The Devil's Advocate
nutshell said:
"Bleeding heart" is an insult. Cisokid and I recognize the difference between compasson and a bleeding heart. Are you implying we're without compassion?
Um... no. :areyoucra Are you just looking to be insulted where no insult was intended?

All I was saying is that I don't find "bleeding heart" to be an insult. So you can just keep calling me that if you want; fine by me.
hjerte.gif
 

Feathers in Hair

World's Tallest Hobbit
MOD ADVISORY

Please remember that the topic of the thread is the original, "This doesn't sit well with me" post. In a heated issue such as this, it's sometimes hard to remember not to to get into the habit of discussing each others' character traits and personalities, but doing so can very easily lead into personal attacks. Again, please limit yourself to debate on the original post.
 

Ciscokid

Well-Known Member
lilithu said:
You don't have facts. You have what is now a third hand account.

I just love btw how you and ciscokid say 'bleeding heart' as if it were an insult. As if compassion is something to be ashamed of.

It's not compassion, it's wimpification...and no it shouldn't be encouraged.
 

Ciscokid

Well-Known Member
My main point is, if you're going to sign up for the military...then you should do your job even if doing your job may get you killed.

I think the football analogy does a good job. Don't sign up for football if you don't wanna get hurt. When the coach asks you to go in and run the football...don't hold your ankle and say "I can't coach I twisted it in pregame warm up".
 

Ulver

Active Member
When you know the ship is sinking it's a good idea to get a hold of a life-vest, don't ya think?

Iraq is beyond screwed up right now. I say anyone who puts themselves and the ones they love above following protocol is a bit more in the right. Screw politics.
 

DTrent

Member
Ciscokid said:
I was talking to my sister in law and she was saying that her brother has to go back to Iraq for yet another year. I guess he's been back in the states for a bit but they're pulling him back into the war again.

She said that when he was there before he didn't work in the battle zone very much but worked near or in one of Sadam's palaces.

She said that he purposely failed the Humvee test because that's how a lot of the soldiers die [road bombs etc] and he didn't want to be given a duty where it involved him driving.

I didn't say anything to her [there wouldn't have been a point], but I was not impressed with her brothers decision.

If you join the military, do your job and stop being a sissy.

It would probably make more sense for him to just be a 'conscientious objector', no?
That way, he wouldn't have to worry about going to ANY war.
Anyway, don't most people join the military for the schooling benefits & the travel?
That seems to be the reasons they advertise to high school kids. "See the world, get a good education & be all that you can be!"
They don't advertise what happens if you see action & come back with no arms/legs or mind left!
 

Ðanisty

Well-Known Member
DTrent said:
Anyway, don't most people join the military for the schooling benefits & the travel?
That seems to be the reasons they advertise to high school kids. "See the world, get a good education & be all that you can be!"
They don't advertise what happens if you see action & come back with no arms/legs or mind left!
Again, it's not necessary to advertise that joining the military may lead to being involved in a war and it's certainly not necessary to advertise that going to war may cause the loss of life and/or limbs. This is plain common sense. People's motivations in joining the military are really quite irrelevant. The military is what it is. If you join, you join at your own risk.
 

Ciscokid

Well-Known Member
Ðanisty said:
Again, it's not necessary to advertise that joining the military may lead to being involved in a war and it's certainly not necessary to advertise that going to war may cause the loss of life and/or limbs. This is plain common sense. People's motivations in joining the military are really quite irrelevant. The military is what it is. If you join, you join at your own risk.


Right, if they have to draw pictures for people to get them to foresee that they may be signing up for a very dangerous job then they probably don't want them in the first place.
 

Gentoo

The Feisty Penguin
On one hand, I don't think the person in question did what was right, he basically lied about his abilities. But I also don't think it's right to call someone, anyone for that matter, a sissy. We don't know exactly what was going on in this guy's head, and we can't know unless someone out there is a not only a mind-reader, but can go back in time to do it.

I don't agree with this young man's actions, but I don't agree with pointing fingers and name-calling either.
 

Ulver

Active Member
The recruiters aren't lying. There are benefits in joining the military. Anyone who doesn't know that joining the military could mean going to war and that war could mean injury or death is an idiot and I've got no sympathy for that. The recruiters are offering an opportunity...one that kids from poorer neighborhoods might not otherwise have. That's not an offense...that's a favor.

Hmm.... why would that person be poor or unable to affoard education in the first place? Oh, that's right, our current government looks down on Social Benefits. Like taking a little chunk off of Military spending and actually helping people. Yea, I guess that's a dumb idea, huh. I suppose it's better to live life in a rat race that's prettied up by Christian morality lace, to shade the sun off politicians and holier-then-thou men who bet on which rat will win and which will die. Yep, that sounds nice.
 

Ciscokid

Well-Known Member
Ulver said:
Hmm.... why would that person be poor or unable to affoard education in the first place? Oh, that's right, our current government looks down on Social Benefits. Like taking a little chunk off of Military spending and actually helping people. Yea, I guess that's a dumb idea, huh. I suppose it's better to live life in a rat race that's prettied up by Christian morality lace, to shade the sun off politicians and holier-then-thou men who bet on which rat will win and which will die. Yep, that sounds nice.


Maybe you're into HUGE Governments that tax the hell out of us so that it can supply everyones needs from crib to cradle.

I'd rather earn it myself and not be taxed so much. I don't need the Government to pay for my education, I can do it myself.

That's a mentality I wish more people would have.
 

Ulver

Active Member
Ciscokid said:
Maybe you're into HUGE Governments that tax the hell out of us so that it can supply everyones needs from crib to cradle.

I'd rather earn it myself and not be taxed so much. I don't need the Government to pay for my education, I can do it myself.

That's a mentality I wish more people would have.

It's not a matter of more taxes, it's a matter of less of it going to the military. It's been shown that a small chunk of the military's spending could pay for quite a bit of this nation's social benefits.

Also I don't buy the whole, overcoming your social place to gain what you have story. Institutions have more power then you give credit. A small few get lucky enough, but that fairytale doesn't come true for everyone.

Balance is the key. The problem is there isn't a balance in our government's budget.
 

Ciscokid

Well-Known Member
I agree about the military. We spend WAY too much money on that. I'm sickened by the thought of how much money we've spent on the Iraq war.

Are we selling war bonds yet?
 

Scuba Pete

Le plongeur avec attitude...
Ciscokid said:
She said that he purposely failed the Humvee test because that's how a lot of the soldiers die [road bombs etc] and he didn't want to be given a duty where it involved him driving.
Which is easier? Telling your sister that you had failed it on purpose or telling her that you couldn't pass a simple driving test? Quite often we will fabricate alternate realities which help to make us look better in the eyes of others. Just think of Shrub and his infamous WMDs. No one really buys that as the reason we invaded Iraq do they?
 
Top